MLB Wigeon Hull Repair

Gents,

I have finally tore into the Wigeon repair I discussed this season. The floor came up very easily, testament to the fact it wasn't properly bonded.

View attachment Wig4.jpg

The core used was a foam material that was scored every few inches to conform to the curve of the hull:

View attachment Wig3.jpg

The foam had soaked up a fair amount of moisture - additionally there was a large void directly above the keel for water to sit in:

View attachment Wig2.jpg

View attachment Wig1.jpg

I removed the questionable area and sanded it clean down to glass. Now it's time to rebuild the floor.

My question, what core would you suggest using? I was under the assumption the core is very ridgid, but after looking on Hamilton Marine for core material, I see that this same foam that MLB had used is an option.

Suggestions?

Thanks!
Paul and Can
 
Wow you got very lucky with the core not being bonded well. That is divinycell. There are many brands and makes you can get it alot of places but noahs will sell in small amounts a product called core cell. It would appear they simply laid the core inbetween layers of glass without bonding it to each layer. Lucky you.

The core is very flimbsy and light until its laminated with glass then it becomes stronger than wood with enough laminates.

Rip up the whole floor sand it down. Put 2 layers of 1.5oz csm down then wet the core you choose and apply it to the wet CSM layers and allow to cure putting weight on top of the core will help it bed better. or you can get some core bonding past divinelet but this is pricy stuff and only sold in 5 gallon pails I believe.Then wet the core top and cover with 2 layers of CSM and allow to dry. Then a layer of 18oz biaxial over that and you wont ever have to worry about it again.

The keel can be left alone or you could fill it with putty using resin and milled fibers but its gonna get heavy and hot when it kicks so becareful if you go this route. However since your this far into it I would atleast put a couple more layers of biaxial into the keel area just in case its too thin now.

Good luck should be a pretty simple fix with as easy as it came up.
 
Tony - thanks for the feedback/advice. Would another option be:

1.5oz CSM.
1708 with Mat Backing (Mat facing up).
Core Cell.
Apply weight and let dry a day.

1708 with Mat Backing (Mat facing down).
Gelcoat or paint

I see the 1708 is on sale for $10/yard: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1441&familyName=Fiberglass+Cloth+-+17+oz+Biaxial+3%2F4+oz+Mat+Back

Also, I was unsure if MLB used polyester resin or epoxy to build the boat. Being unsure, I purchased West Marine Epoxy for the repair.

Also interested in anyone else's feedback / thoughts on this approach!

Thanks!
 
Paul looks fine, but your not gonna wet out mat with epoxy. and after the first section dries I would put a layer of mat down to bed the 1708 into.. There is NOT much csm on the back of the 1708. While it may be over kill to add an extra layer of mat It will make the hull so much stronger with little weight gain. Return the epoxy or save it for another project. You dont want to try and use epoxy in this job.

IF you can fair out the edges of the core to give a smooth transistion for the glass or your gonna have air bubbles all the way around it.

How much material do you need? that price seems extremely high. I probably got enough scrap pieces laying around to do the whole job. If you want I would be willing to send you the glass and CSM just pay the shipping and packing costs. Just get a couple gallons of poly resin, core and you would be all set.
 
Thanks Tony,

My only concern is what if my hull was made with Epoxy? Then won't the polyester resin not bond well to it? I would hate to go through the work and have an improper bond to the existing hull. Thoughts?
 
For what they charged for thr boats there is no way it was epoxy. And you dont use epoxy with csm.
 
Thanks Tony,

My only concern is what if my hull was made with Epoxy? Then won't the polyester resin not bond well to it? I would hate to go through the work and have an improper bond to the existing hull. Thoughts?
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Tony knows his stuff and I won't argue with him (much), but I will say lots of guys rebuild boats with 1708 and epoxy. From what I understand, 1708 varies in how well it wets out with epoxy, but if you get one that wets out well, you are in business. I've never worked with the stuff and Tony has, but I've seen it used many, many times in reading rebuild threads on other forums. The jamestown website appears to confirm that it is compatible with epoxy.

It is unlikely that your hull is epoxy as built.
 
Thanks Tony,

My only concern is what if my hull was made with Epoxy? Then won't the polyester resin not bond well to it? I would hate to go through the work and have an improper bond to the existing hull. Thoughts?
Click to expand...


Tony knows his stuff and I won't argue with him (much), but I will say lots of guys rebuild boats with 1708 and epoxy. From what I understand, 1708 varies in how well it wets out with epoxy, but if you get one that wets out well, you are in business. I've never worked with the stuff and Tony has, but I've seen it used many, many times in reading rebuild threads on other forums. The jamestown website appears to confirm that it is compatible with epoxy.

It is unlikely that your hull is epoxy as built.
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Tod, It can be done with the 1708 as the csm in that won't have a binder in it thats holding the fiber hairs to the biaxial glass it will be knitted. The csm that he will put down prior to laying the core and then the 1708 is where he will have issues. It has a binder in it that desolves and while epoxy probably can be used even with it, for the cost and time it will take to wet it out it wouldn't be worth the effort. And I am sure it will take more Epoxy to wet it out than poly which will make it heavier. Much easier with Poly resins. The biaxial is 17 oz with a 3/4oz mat backing (thus the 1708 first 2 digits are the oz of cloth and the last 2 are the mat weight. Mat and rovens or other cloths are not weighed the same as mats.

As for the boat being epoxy built. I seriously doubt it. There would be 12 gallons or more epoxy in it and at around 60.00 a gallon unless the boat was 5k it wouldne be benificial for the builder to use epoxy and knowing the boat and aprox price I am 99.9 percent sure its not epoxy.

Everything looks good except I would replace the epoxy with poly for ease of use as its highly unlikely that boats epoxy built. Epoxy is generally not used for layups in standard glass boats. Unles using carbon fiber or kevlar and then you will know immediately. Its just not cost effective.
 
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Thanks a lot guys - you've been a plethora of information! I will return the epoxy and move forward with West Marine's "Boaters Resin". Thanks!!
 
Thanks Tony,

My only concern is what if my hull was made with Epoxy? Then won't the polyester resin not bond well to it? I would hate to go through the work and have an improper bond to the existing hull. Thoughts?
Click to expand...


Paul if this concerns you you can always do a small test area with poly resin. Which you can get a quart at walmart or the local auto supply. Simply mix and brush a small amount on an area and let kick. Then see if it comes off easily after 24hrs. Prep the surface and see what happens. You can save a ton of money with polyester resin. you could even get s patch repair kit of csm for the test as well and bond a small piece of csm right to the hull to test it. If its epoxy it will peal right off. If not you will have to grind it back off. But could leave it and finish the repair as scheduled.

My offer to send you the glass needed for shipping and packing stands if you decide to go that route.
 
Thanks Tony,

My only concern is what if my hull was made with Epoxy? Then won't the polyester resin not bond well to it? I would hate to go through the work and have an improper bond to the existing hull. Thoughts?
Click to expand...


Paul if this concerns you you can always do a small test area with poly resin. Which you can get a quart at walmart or the local auto supply. Simply mix and brush a small amount on an area and let kick. Then see if it comes off easily after 24hrs. Prep the surface and see what happens. You can save a ton of money with polyester resin. you could even get s patch repair kit of csm for the test as well and bond a small piece of csm right to the hull to test it. If its epoxy it will peal right off. If not you will have to grind it back off. But could leave it and finish the repair as scheduled.

My offer to send you the glass needed for shipping and packing stands if you decide to go that route.
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Use the extra bucks you save and get a 3/4" 3" wide bubble buster fiberglass roller. You can find them where I told you to go for resin. you will need one and it will make life much easy.
 
Hi Tony,

I assume the correct resin is this one: 435 Standard Polyester Layup Resin (Marine Grade Resin)?

Also, for core material, I plan to use the following, any issues?:
Corecell M80 12mm http://www.noahsmarine.com/ItemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=CORECCS&MatrixType=2&selelement1=undefined&selelement2=undefined&selelement3=undefined&selelement4=undefined&selelement5=undefined

Debating between 9mm and 12mm. Any thoughts?

Lastly, I greatly appreciate the offer for materials, but I'll get them with my order from US Composites....this way I can get the exact dimensions I need so I don't have to piece a couple pieces together. I am also planning on giving the entire hull a layer of 1708 from the outside when I am done (if the weight increase isn't too bad).
 
correct Paul, 9mm or 3/8th should be plenty thick for the core with a bed of mat and lat and 1708 over it. We use 3/8" core on all our layouts and once its laminated it is super strong. Good luck and if you have any questions feel free to shoot me a email or message here.
 
Last question (for now). above the keelboard, there is a significant void - probably 1.5 inches tall in a V-shape. I want to fill this void, so there isn't a place for water to sit (when I tore it out, it was filled with water). Should I just use 2 part foam to fill that void? I'm worried if fill it with CSM there is going to be a lot of weight for no structural gain...

In the end, it would be a "V" of foam standing 1.5 inches tall, about 2 inches wide at the top, running about 6 feet along the top of the keel.
 
Last question (for now). above the keelboard, there is a significant void - probably 1.5 inches tall in a V-shape. I want to fill this void, so there isn't a place for water to sit (when I tore it out, it was filled with water). Should I just use 2 part foam to fill that void? I'm worried if fill it with CSM there is going to be a lot of weight for no structural gain...

In the end, it would be a "V" of foam standing 1.5 inches tall, about 2 inches wide at the top, running about 6 feet along the top of the keel.
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I honestly would double it up with glass and leave it open. Its not going to hurt anything. If you fill it with foam it wont matter if water gets in its still gonna be stuck and the foam will just absorb the water anyway. Not a major deal and will make repairs easier if there is ever damage to the keel.
 
After quite a few hours, I have the repair of the Zack Taylor very near completion. Everything went smooth until the final step - gelcoat. Some progress pictures are below:

First step after tearing everything out and cleaning the hull was to fill the void along the keel. I did this with a strip of foam and 1/4" chopped glass fibers + resin:

View attachment KEEL.jpg

Next was a couple layers of CSM:

View attachment Glass.jpg

The foam before install:

View attachment Foam.jpg

Putting weight on the foam:

View attachment Weight.jpg

The foam adhered very well:

View attachment Foam2.jpg
 
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My final step was gel-coat. This should have been the easiest step of all, but has been a nightmare.

Unknowingly, I applied laminating (unwaxed) gel-coat to the entire interior of the hull. I should have immediately followed this with a finish coat (waxed), but I did not. After 4 weeks, the gel-coat was still not cured. At that point I began my research and discovered my mistake. I called US Composites to inquire, and they said give it another week, it will harden. After another week, it is still not cured (can easily go all the way through with my fingernail).

I bought new gel-coat, and applied a test patch over the uncured gel-coat hoping for a miracle. It hardened somewhat, but with the uncured gel-coat underneath, it was not durable enough. Tonight I began pouring acetone and wiping with rags. This will be a long process to get it all off! I had not only gel-coated the floor, but the walls and top as well (in light gray to improve visiblity under deck). I am hoping to get 90% of it off in the accessible areas, then roll a new layer of Finish (waxed) gel-coat.

My question - will 1 rolled layer of gel coat be enough, or am I going to have to sand and apply a 2nd layer?

Note that this is the inside of the duckboat and is intended only for protection/sealing of the glasswork.

I am even contemplating scrapping the gel-coat idea altogether and using FME.

Thanks!
Paul and Canvas
 
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