Natural resource professionals?
- Thread starter Michael McCord
- Start date
I would encourage you to guide him to seek a MS, which would open his options beyond working as an entry-level technician position for most State or Federal agencies that are hiring.
I graduated with a BS in Fisheries and Wildlife Biology with a wildlife and wetlands ecology emphasis, I was hired by Michigan State University as a research tech. as a diver, changing film packs and batteries in an array of stationary current meters around a coal fired generating facility located near Lake Michigan at a drowned river mouth site. After that, I ended-up taking more fisheries courses and applying to graduate school in fisheries science and limnology with an emphasis on the Great Lakes. I did my masters research as part of an EIS (Following NEPA passage, Universities got involved in the environmental consulting business in a big way.) on a pumped storage hydroelectric plant. The fish mortality estimates we (MSU) formulated via modeling techniques eventually lead to a "sweetheart" settlement between the utilities owners and the State/MDNR, largely because of the State's employee retirement fund's heavy investment in their(utility companies) preferred stock. Several folks worked hard behind the scenes for years to overturn this agreement, eventually resulting in the Michigan United Conservation Club's parent organization (National Wildlife Federation) stepping-in and filing suit against the utilities (Consumers Power and Detroit Edison) and the MDNR for pollution of the Great Lakes via the massive fish kills caused by annual plant operation.
The eventual outcome was a "change of sides by the State" as well as an eventual settlement reached that involved placement of a barrier net around the plant, as well as retro-active punitive damage payments, and annual payments into what eventually became the Great Lakes Fishery Research Trust. This whole process moved at a near-glacial pace. I eventually ended-up running a field research lab. for MSU, running another EIS on the St.Mary's River, assessing the potential environmental impacts of winter shipping on the connecting waters of the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Great Lakes. Over those years I had a broad variety of opportunities to get hands-on experience in modeling, study design and field sampling implementation for a variety of sampling gear from various gillnets, otter trawl, frame trawl, trapnets, larval fish pumps, larval fish sampling tow nets and sleds, invertebrate sampling gear, as well as emergent and submergent macrophyte mapping and biomass estimation techniques and zooplankton sampling and ID work;far more and to a greater in-depth degree than what I would have been exposed to or involved-in had I gone to work for a State or Federal fish and wildlife agency. I even taught the Ichthyology labs. for three years, even though I had a research assistantship. I even learned how to weld, make a gillnet and trapnet from scratch, repair an outboard, and troubleshoot complex electronics, etc.
The downside is that I eventually ended-up filing conflict of interest charges against my supervisor and former major professor. Coincidentally, two of his graduate students filed charges of theft of intellectual property(quite common among university profs. in this era). He and one of two other profs. were eventually found guilty. I found out that, as an off-campus Associate Professional I was not represented by the MSU Employee Union. I was informed by my department chairman that my position was "soft money grant funded" and I was going to be let go. He did write me a letter of recommenation... I ended-up working for the USFWS Sea Lamprey Research Laboratory, working on proof of concept efforts for mass release of spawning phase male sea lamprey(sterilized via interperitoneal injection of a germ cell specific mutagen) into the St. Mary's River as a means of population regulation and control. After running a laboratory, writing quarterly reports, constructing and managing a budget, etc., working as a glorified pair of hands was not very challenging. Plus, over my time at Hammond Bay, I determined that lake trout restoration efforts in the lower Great Lakes were quite ill-conceived...a key USFWS initiative in this geography,so I left, taking a job with a pharmaceutical company.
Had I not had four semesters of statistics and a pair of population dynamics and modelling courses via my graduate education, I would not have been hired.
I graduated with a BS in Fisheries and Wildlife Biology with a wildlife and wetlands ecology emphasis, I was hired by Michigan State University as a research tech. as a diver, changing film packs and batteries in an array of stationary current meters around a coal fired generating facility located near Lake Michigan at a drowned river mouth site. After that, I ended-up taking more fisheries courses and applying to graduate school in fisheries science and limnology with an emphasis on the Great Lakes. I did my masters research as part of an EIS (Following NEPA passage, Universities got involved in the environmental consulting business in a big way.) on a pumped storage hydroelectric plant. The fish mortality estimates we (MSU) formulated via modeling techniques eventually lead to a "sweetheart" settlement between the utilities owners and the State/MDNR, largely because of the State's employee retirement fund's heavy investment in their(utility companies) preferred stock. Several folks worked hard behind the scenes for years to overturn this agreement, eventually resulting in the Michigan United Conservation Club's parent organization (National Wildlife Federation) stepping-in and filing suit against the utilities (Consumers Power and Detroit Edison) and the MDNR for pollution of the Great Lakes via the massive fish kills caused by annual plant operation.
The eventual outcome was a "change of sides by the State" as well as an eventual settlement reached that involved placement of a barrier net around the plant, as well as retro-active punitive damage payments, and annual payments into what eventually became the Great Lakes Fishery Research Trust. This whole process moved at a near-glacial pace. I eventually ended-up running a field research lab. for MSU, running another EIS on the St.Mary's River, assessing the potential environmental impacts of winter shipping on the connecting waters of the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Great Lakes. Over those years I had a broad variety of opportunities to get hands-on experience in modeling, study design and field sampling implementation for a variety of sampling gear from various gillnets, otter trawl, frame trawl, trapnets, larval fish pumps, larval fish sampling tow nets and sleds, invertebrate sampling gear, as well as emergent and submergent macrophyte mapping and biomass estimation techniques and zooplankton sampling and ID work;far more and to a greater in-depth degree than what I would have been exposed to or involved-in had I gone to work for a State or Federal fish and wildlife agency. I even taught the Ichthyology labs. for three years, even though I had a research assistantship. I even learned how to weld, make a gillnet and trapnet from scratch, repair an outboard, and troubleshoot complex electronics, etc.
The downside is that I eventually ended-up filing conflict of interest charges against my supervisor and former major professor. Coincidentally, two of his graduate students filed charges of theft of intellectual property(quite common among university profs. in this era). He and one of two other profs. were eventually found guilty. I found out that, as an off-campus Associate Professional I was not represented by the MSU Employee Union. I was informed by my department chairman that my position was "soft money grant funded" and I was going to be let go. He did write me a letter of recommenation... I ended-up working for the USFWS Sea Lamprey Research Laboratory, working on proof of concept efforts for mass release of spawning phase male sea lamprey(sterilized via interperitoneal injection of a germ cell specific mutagen) into the St. Mary's River as a means of population regulation and control. After running a laboratory, writing quarterly reports, constructing and managing a budget, etc., working as a glorified pair of hands was not very challenging. Plus, over my time at Hammond Bay, I determined that lake trout restoration efforts in the lower Great Lakes were quite ill-conceived...a key USFWS initiative in this geography,so I left, taking a job with a pharmaceutical company.
Had I not had four semesters of statistics and a pair of population dynamics and modelling courses via my graduate education, I would not have been hired.
There are few people that have the perspective as Brad does to give advice on your question. In recent history it went from no advanced degree needed to masters needed and now there are a lot with PhDs. Looks like a trend for more advanced degrees.
A very common misconception is that a Masters or Doctorate is more time and more money... They are more time, but good candidates will earn a stipend and tuition is waived while working on an advanced degree (an RA or fellowship). While a Masters isn't all that bad to do once you have a job a Doctorate is a lot tougher - if only given the size of the project required and the commitment. A lot of parents and students think that to pursue an advanced degree will require more debt, but this isn't usually the case for the very qualified student. This depends somewhat on the fields you mention. I would say that as a generalization something like environmental science would be tougher to find quality funded MS/PhD positions than wildlife or forestry. Advanced degree is a totally different animal than a BS, lot more fun for me personally working on the degree and in the end is time well spent from what I've seen if the interest is in the sciences.
Its tough to compete with MS applicants who already have field and lab experience when you "only" have a BS.
Not impossible, but tough.
I you are applying with a BS, you better have some solid work experience and/or internships to add to your resume. Military time helps too, IMO.
In regards to PhD's, some state agencies hesitate to hire PhD's for entry level positions, even though they are now showing up on the personnel registers for entry level jobs.
There is a fear they will get a couple of years experience and then bolt for hire paying jobs at consulting firms or go back to academia.
That said, we now have two PhDs in our office, one is a planner/project manager who wanted to be closer to home.
The other is a senior scientist we just hired for all things NRDA, who was tired of life as a consultant and wanted a steady job with good benefits.
We grabbed them because we knew both of them and knew they where in it for the long haul.
Not impossible, but tough.
I you are applying with a BS, you better have some solid work experience and/or internships to add to your resume. Military time helps too, IMO.
In regards to PhD's, some state agencies hesitate to hire PhD's for entry level positions, even though they are now showing up on the personnel registers for entry level jobs.
There is a fear they will get a couple of years experience and then bolt for hire paying jobs at consulting firms or go back to academia.
That said, we now have two PhDs in our office, one is a planner/project manager who wanted to be closer to home.
The other is a senior scientist we just hired for all things NRDA, who was tired of life as a consultant and wanted a steady job with good benefits.
We grabbed them because we knew both of them and knew they where in it for the long haul.
I couldn't agree with Tod and Carl more. Tell your son to build his network early, volunteer for grad students while he is an undergrad, go to professional society meetings, volunteer for an agency and getting appropriate summer jobs or internships will give your son a leg up on other candidates. Tod is right that advanced degrees don't have to come with more debt. Good grades, good test scores and good connections can lead to paid assistantships and tuition waivers. I've even seen some students skipping M.S. Degrees and going right to Ph.Ds. Those strategies and connections will help after grad school as well. As Carl indicated, they hired those who they knew. I've looked at a lot of resumes and job applications and hired many into the field and I have to say that above everything else, a carefully prepared and edited resume and a strong and confident interview are usually the most important factors in my decisions. Typos, misspellings, and careless mistakes are deal breakers. If you get an interview: you better be prepared and have done your homework, better be friendly but confident without being arrogant, and demonstrate that you can play well with others. Also, remember the wildlife profession is pretty small, so there is a good chance I'll know one of your references personally or by reputation, and if I call that reference I'll expect the straight scoop on you. Professional reputations ride on credibility so if reference gives a glowing review for someone who is below average it hurts the reference more than the applicant. So pick your references well.
Pat Gregory
Well-known member
I appreciate all the good work our natural resource professionals do!
Michael, not to highjack your thread but, how many of the people who responded were Delta Students during their careers? Just curious... Pat
Michael, not to highjack your thread but, how many of the people who responded were Delta Students during their careers? Just curious... Pat
Bill Embacher
Well-known member
Sorry I'm a little late to the party here, but I've been without a working keyboard for a month, I'll also add to the August workbench thread shortly...
Anyway, I graduated from URI with a wildlife bio degree in 2001. Worked seasonal positions (among other jobs to pay bills in down times) doing everything under the sun in our wildlife division here in Conn., as well as with some companies in the private sector. Jack of all trades master of none might be a good descriptor for me at this point! I am currently employed as a contractor through the Wildlife Management Institute for the CT DEEP doing white-tailed deer research (recently completed efforts on a large scale fawn mortality project), and I am currently hoping to be extended beyond December of 2016. My heart in in waterfowl research, but around here deer work is king, so that has been the road I've spent the most time on. I also work with with White Buffalo from time to time, doing both live capture and urban deer removal.
I've worked with many different species, but maybe specializing would have resulted in a full time job by now...or willingness to move, CT has not hired in many years! Off the top of my head, species I've had the pleasure of working in depth with:
Banded all species of atlantic Sea ducks, plus mallards, blacks, wood ducks, and Canada Geese, Woodcock, plus many songbird sp.
Clapper rails
Marbled and Spotted salamanders
Black Bear
Cottontail Rabbit sp.
Wild Boar/feral pigs
mosquitoes!
Saw whet owls
White-tailed deer
Moose
Wild Turkey
Its a fun career path to say the least! Here is a photo of my daughter banding geese with me last month:
Anyway, I graduated from URI with a wildlife bio degree in 2001. Worked seasonal positions (among other jobs to pay bills in down times) doing everything under the sun in our wildlife division here in Conn., as well as with some companies in the private sector. Jack of all trades master of none might be a good descriptor for me at this point! I am currently employed as a contractor through the Wildlife Management Institute for the CT DEEP doing white-tailed deer research (recently completed efforts on a large scale fawn mortality project), and I am currently hoping to be extended beyond December of 2016. My heart in in waterfowl research, but around here deer work is king, so that has been the road I've spent the most time on. I also work with with White Buffalo from time to time, doing both live capture and urban deer removal.
I've worked with many different species, but maybe specializing would have resulted in a full time job by now...or willingness to move, CT has not hired in many years! Off the top of my head, species I've had the pleasure of working in depth with:
Banded all species of atlantic Sea ducks, plus mallards, blacks, wood ducks, and Canada Geese, Woodcock, plus many songbird sp.
Clapper rails
Marbled and Spotted salamanders
Black Bear
Cottontail Rabbit sp.
Wild Boar/feral pigs
mosquitoes!
Saw whet owls
White-tailed deer
Moose
Wild Turkey
Its a fun career path to say the least! Here is a photo of my daughter banding geese with me last month:
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Bill, that sounds very interesting. Any summary of the fawn mortality work? I don't know the details, but some studies by Maine DIFW revealed a surprising amount of black bear predation on both white tail deer fawns and moose calves. With growing bear populations down your way, is that starting to show up? Coyotes? Domestic dogs?
Bill Embacher
Well-known member
Jeff, our findings were that bobcat and bear are predating a great number of fawns. I can't remember the exact statistics off the top of my head, but our yearly survival rate of fawns was <30%. Coyotes only killed small handful (<5) over 4 years. Depending on the timing of the first cut of hay we also saw many fawns get mowed, as well as farmers report the same.