NDR: stirring the pot - is the war on terror worth it

but wait...wasn't Caligula killed by the very people that hated him even while being afraid of him? Didn't work out all that well for him did it?

Nothing worse than confronting something that is "afraid" of you IMO.....they act irrationally, and strike without warning, often at targets adjacent to the thing they "fear"......I'd much rather just deal with the guy that hates you for reasons other than fear....


Steve
 
It is unreal to me that the richest nation on the face of the earth can't provide healthcare for all of our kids. There are 11 million kids out there in the good old flag waving US of A without healthcare...
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Charlie, there may be 11 million without health insurance but not 11 million without health coverage. Any snot nosed kid that walks into any hospital in the US gets all the medical attention he needs.
 
Is the cost of the war on terror worth it to you? What about to your kids and grandkids?

Did I mention that the war costs $10B a month and the SCHIP program would cost $7B a YEAR... Sure it is more important to go to war than to insure the children of our nation.

Charlie
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean it is good or bad. Were the wars of the past worth it to us? We are the kids and grandkids of WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Hard to imagine what the world would be like without them. Those wars cost much more then this one.

Oh and the often used saying that this is a "War for oil" is almost right and I really don't care. It is a war because of oil, plain and simple. If they did not sit on top of it nobody would care about the people from that part of the world because they wouldn't have the money to attack us.

Remember that Iraq was not sold as a part of 9/11 but a part of the war on terror. Iraq was a major sponsor of the radical Palestinians. To think no Americans were in danger from them is short sighted. They also were a refuge for many terrorists, Abu Nidal was a guest of Iraq until Saddam decided that he might turn against him once a war broke out.
Besides Iraq locked on and shot missiles at our planes on a regular basis even though they agreed not to in the cease fire from the original gulf war. They would not allow inspections that they were ordered to, even though now we know they did not have much to hide. They also put a contract out on the head of Bush 1.
What more did we need? The mistake was not making it clear it was just another war on terror not the 9/11 war.

The argument that one thing should be paid for because another costs much more is silly to me. National defense in the first and most important job of the federal government. Childrens health care for a family of four making $80,000 a year is the first and most important job of the parents.
The problems of affordable healthcare are not going to be solved by the federal government throwing money at it.

At least that's my $.02

Tim
 
Well ladies and gentlemen this pot is definitaley stirred. There is a lot of out looks, opinions, bias or not that we all have. Can't change them because that is what it means to be an American. I don't know what is right, I can't define all that is wrong.

There is one thing that I do know, and I will never forget as long as I live. I remember the place and time when I first heard about the trajedy on 9/11. I remember the way I felt, the violation and fear that stirred my very soul. The confidence of freedom was compromised.

I remember the pain and sadness that filled my heart for the brave men and women that lost their lives. My brothers and sisters that walked into chaos knowing they would not return, but pushing forward because it was their duty to serve and protect no matter the consequence. Their memory will always be honored in my heart.

I know that we had to make a stand, I know that the men and women that swore an oath would be called upon to fullfill it. I know that a fellow Deputy I work with will be shipping out soon and he will serve his country by locating I.E.D.'s. I am proud to know him and I support him.

Is this right? How can I decide. What is right is supporting our troops, no matter what. Make any sacrafices needed for them. Americans are a proud people and we need to show it. During WWII we sacraficed, right down to our bacon grease and tin cans, we came together as one for our troops. It is time to do it again.

Politics are complicated and I believe that there will never be a time where everyone is satisfied. Is the amount of $ we are pouring into this war justified? Gas has skyrocketed and we are facing a continuosly rising poverty level. Working for minimum wage forces you to work to be able to get to work. It is a continuos cycle.

Over time we will come full circle. But until we do, I never want to feel the way I did on 9/11 again. Are we as Americans taking the correct actions?, yes, we are, through the support and sacrafice for our troops. Is our Government taking the correct actions? I do know that the hightened security has prevented several attacks and they are working together with homeland security for the greater good. All I am is a man trying to make a life for myself by supporting and protecting my family and trying to give them the best life I can. Our troops are doing the same for us and should be recognized and supported accordingly, regardless of sacrafice.

Off my soap box now, just had to let that off my chest, thanks for taking the time to listen.
 
It is unreal to me that the richest nation on the face of the earth can't provide healthcare for all of our kids. There are 11 million kids out there in the good old flag waving US of A without healthcare...
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Charlie, there may be 11 million without health insurance but not 11 million without health coverage. Any snot nosed kid that walks into any hospital in the US gets all the medical attention he needs.
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True, but at a high cost to all of us. It would be a heckuva' lot cheaper to provide preventative care and checkups that can help avoid that emergency room visit in the first place. Odds are it is a much worse situation by the time someone goes to the emergency room.

It'd probably feel a lot different if that "snot nosed kid" was yours or mine and the choice was between a checkup, preventative care or and food on the table.

I can afford healthcare, but I see people all around me who can't... It just ain't right. Not for the kids. Not when we could easily do it for a small fraction of the cost of bombs and bullets.

BTW - this is not, and never was, a discussion about "supporting the troops". I support the troops as much as the next flag waver. I don't agree with the mission they are on, and neither do a lot of people. Making the country safe from terror - I call bullshit - making hte country safer from people who's best friend stole a beer clock maybe. Any good criminal knows the holes in the system and will eventually hit us again, right where we aren't looking. No war halfway around the world is going to stop that, especially when the chief output of the war is a fresh batch of folks who hate imeprialist america more becasue it is an occupier that violates their individual rights on a regular basis, does not improve the lot of the vast majority of Iraqis. The only winners in this war are the military industrial complex and the owners of businesses that are striking it rich. Everybody else pays, some more than others.
 
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If you think that a national health insurance bureacracy will do away with a Medicaide or medicare bureacracy....I have some ocean front property in Missouri you need to look at. (why can't I get my spell check to work?)
 
(why can't I get my spell check to work?)
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Probably needs a government subsidy to make sure it works. This is a poor site, can't afford a good IT guy.

Tim
 
"The rich get richer and the poor get poorer" is the statement your saying which is true. But Homeland security efforts being "bullshit" I can't see. Sure the enemy is motivated, that is what enemies have to be to feel their war is just, regardless of how or why they all die the same. "Any good criminal will find the holes and hit where we are not looking" in order to find holes you have to have a place to look. So in turn you make the effort to prevent that. If you don't agree with it that's great but at least there is an system in place. Look at it on a grand scale, its not perfect but it is still there, at least it makes things harder, it's better than just waiting until something happens. I for one, feel better making the effort rather than just waiting for another catastrophy. I do agree with you about the financial aspect but you can't just lie back and say the efforts for your family and mine are worthless.
 
If you think that a national health insurance bureacracy will do away with a Medicaide or medicare bureacracy....I have some ocean front property in Missouri you need to look at. (why can't I get my spell check to work?)
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Harker,

We already have SCHIP, it isn't new - it has been around since 1997. And if I understand it correctly, it is a program that state's run, not the feds.

The feds (Social Security Administration) just pass out the money to the states.

In Vermont, SCHIP operates under a great program called Dr. Dynosaur - a state children's health program. It really works here.

Even with the SCHIP we have twice as many kids that are uninsured as we do that are covered by SCHIP - and that is a miniscule fraction of the kids covered by Medicaid. An expanded SCHIP would simply help cover more of the gap between the medicaid and those that can afford insurance for their kids.

Charlie
 
anyone from the South missed your calling everyone South of the Mason Dixon liine stupid......stick tight we might be so ignorant as to not know the Taliban, (those nasties in Afghanistan), from Al Queida, (the people who attacked Ameirica----ooooopppssss you got that one wrong), but we do know how to get even.....

Steve
 
As far as evil dictators, sadam wasn't even top of the list. As far as wmd's, I'm a lot more scared of son yon moon (or whutever his name is), cause we told him no no you cant play, and he test fired a missle that hit just off the west coast. When that dude punches out, he'll reach for the button, not the kool aid, and he is defiently the most dangerous leader in the world. There is evil all over the world, even if you could change that by 'winning' iraq, where would you go next? Pick any direction from there and find someone that hates us. That part of the world has been fighting for 5000 years, it ain't going to be over anytime soon.

Pretending if we didn't have to pay for this world we'd fix health care is disney world stuff. We've already invented really serious earth shaking topics like gay marriage to give people things to be scared of, vote for, and take their minds off real problems. Afterall, little johnny might be sick and not have insurance, but at least all those homos can't get married now, so its cool right? Nobody is serious about fixing health care, and as long as people can be tricked by gay marriage type things viewed as national topics, nobody ever will. How bout we spend 1/20th of this war on research to get rid of freggin dependence on oil? Once we can do that, we wouldn't care what the middle east did, they could go back to fighting amongst themselves.

Saw a show on alternative fuel resources the other day. There was a guy on there, won some awards. If I ever meet him, I will kick the ever loving crap out of him. He was trying to find an alternative fuel source to rid us of our oil dependence. He was trying to burn sand. What kind of dumbazz decides on the ONLY other thing the middle east has more of than we do, and decides to burn it. I mean if you can burn sand, you probably could have come up with anything. Why not kudzu? Sand. In 50 years, we'd be right back over there fighting over sand. travis
 
Whoa, where did I call ANYONE south of the line stupid? In my oppinion, the smartest people in the country are down there...you aren't ya know. The taliban were in control of Afganistan and that is who we attacked first...they were just in cahoots with ol'Al quieda...al kida...elqueedo..al kabong....fergit it bobalooey.
 
Travis,
As much as the mass marriages done by Reverend Moon disturb me I don't think that is the Korean you are thinking of, unless that kind of thing bothers you that much. Kim Jung Il is the little chubby apple who fell very near his father's stunted tree. I'm more afraid of the dictator dentist in Syria, he has more money to get things done. Israel repotedly bombs a building housing N Korean nuke stuff in Syria and they claim nothing happened in their country. You suppose there was something serious in that building? When has anyone over there not exposed what Israel has done if it works to their benefit?

Sand sounds about right. It's another thing Florida has a lot of on it's coast that we won't be able to use any of.

Tim
 
We need large bases of operation in Iraq to destroy the freaks that run Iran (and possibly Syria as well) when the time comes.

Of course if hillary or usama obama are elected president, all bets are off... who knows what they'll do except raise taxes and destroy the economy which is humming right along, I might add, despite the war.

As far as pissing people off the dumass socialists (democrats) didn't seem to have any problem entirely destroying relations with Turkey, and without firing a shot.

Hitch
 
It always comes down to,"FOLLOW THE MONEY".Why is Floeida and Alabama getting water from Georgia when both of thoes states has received much more rain than Georgia?
This is the dryest year here in the last 30 that I have been keeping records.Seems the Corps of Engineers controls the water flow throughout the southeast.

In my military mind,if the Iraq gov is not committted to saving their nation,We need to withdraw and let the battlefield level out,so to speak.Thankfully I was never stationed in the Middle East.I never wanted to go there as a young boy,and I never regretted that decision.,
 
Why is Floeida and Alabama getting water from Georgia when both of thoes states has received much more rain than Georgia?
This is the dryest year here in the last 30 that I have been keeping records.Seems the Corps of Engineers controls the water flow throughout the southeast.
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Well, as someone down stream I can shed a little light on that. Atlanta has out-grown it's own water supply. It's a big sponge that is trying to suck every river that flows through it dry. In a normal precip year, not a problem (for now). They take their water and can still maintain required flows to the downstream systems. For now. Keep growing and in 10 years, every year will be like a drought year.
However, now that we are in a severe drought, they want to have all the water in the system. This would lead to economical and ecological disasters downstream in Alabama & Florida. We already have towns who's water intakes are high & dry, factories & powerplants on the verge of shutting down and Atlanta still wants more water. And, reducing flows even further will add to the ecological impacts already being felt in downstream estuaries. Not a problem for Atlanta, they don't care if oystermen in Appalichola & Mobile Bay can't work, they don't care if our grass beds all die, they don't care if mussel species die off, or if the salt wedge pushes up river and kill all the cypress trees. They just want more and more water.

And don't think this is just a problem for Alabama and Florida. Atlanta has plans to create resevoirs in Georgia that would decrease flows to their own estuaries on the Atlantic coast, no matter what the impact.
As you said, money talks and Atlanta thinks it has has the money & power to hurt not only the adjacent states but it's own people and estuaries downstream.
 
The iraqi governement can't fend for itself. We killed them. Remember? It took a vicous dictator to keep the factions in check. We don't have the stomach for it, nor will we be able to back someone like that. Thinking our style of government is the best for us, so it ought to be the best somewhere else is kinda concieted. Freedom is great, but when a good day is food for your family, not getting invaded, hit with a motar round, or killed by a car bomb, you really don't think about it much. Give me liberty or give me death, wasn't phrased in the middle east. A lot of them are happy to be liberated now, don't get me wrong, but when their own countrymen of a different faction are killing them 30 seconds after we eventually leave, welp, I don't think the greater good was served. These factions have hate we can't even begin to understand, it transends generations, imagnary borders, real borders, and even the will to take care of their own. Pretending they value what we do is ludicrous.

Yeah wrong korean. I knew I had the name wrong. But at least you knew what I meant, and I didn't offend half the country with my remarks. bwhahahaha.

I don't know where the water thingy came from. But apprently, it was bothering dude, so its good he got it off his chest. I know nothing about it, so all I'll say is I hope it rains to at least ease the situation temporaily. travis
 
Charlie: I thinkist you are a ultra lib who is brain washed
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Quite the opposite Perry - I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal (minus some of the personal relationship crap, which I think the guvm't outta' stay out of). You might say I am a libertarian. I used to be a "Reagan" republican, but "W" fixed that....

This war (right or wrong) is bad for the world financially - you and I are paying the price every day in the higher cost of goods and services. This war is financially bad for everyone except the military industrial complex.

But, if you're committed as a nation to spending a crapload of money, you might as well throw a bone to those that can't take care of themselves. And SCHIP is a small bone...

Charlie
 
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Carl,I'm glad you explained the situation.That is exactly what I was looking for.The problem now is,where and how do we get enough water to satisfy the population growth of not only Atlanta,but every other fast growth community in the south.I didn't really mean to get the water issue up and running,just thought it might be a money thing talking.

As far as Iraq is concerned,going there was a mistake,and getting out needs to be done.Solving this is the problem.Thousands of qualified personnel are working on the best solution.Sooner or later we'll get there.
 
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