Need feedback on 3D printers- hobby usage

[Huntindave McCann]

Who is into 3D printing? I had several small projects printed and now it's time to purchase one for myself. Need some help choosing what I want to fill my needs. All these projects would fit in a 8 by 8 by 8 area. I'm thinking I like a 250mmX 250mmX250mm build space in a printer. (not going for full production mode).
examples of past projects:

 

[Clinton John]

I have a few friends that are pretty heavy into that.

I will tell you what everyone of them have told me.

Get way more machine then you think is necessary.

The machine most of them pointed me towards for doing my own personal aka "hobby" stuff. Was a couple of grand price wise like two years ago.

I still haven't bought into anything yet because of the advice and price I was given. One day I will though.

 

[Dave Diefenderfer]

Dave, I can't help specifically, but know that the first consideration is what do you want to make, and what does that need to perform in. Research the materials and they will define the requirements for your printer. We have several at work, I don't use them, but have items made for my process needs. I looked into it myself for decoy molding and making first articles. I wanted to have a scanner to support it and was looking at close to $10K for what I thought I would want. That being said, I don't want another hobby to take up my time. When you get it figured out, you will get lots of requests!

 

[Huntindave McCann]

Was a couple of grand price wise like two years ago.

was looking at close to $10K

You guys are pretty easy with my money. I'm planning on spending a lot less.

The friend that has been doing all my printing up to this point, is using a machine he bought for his grade school age daughter. So far it has been sufficient. I do get what you are saying. I have done a fair amount of research. Enough to know that I'm not going to want to set up for many of the "specialty" filaments. PLA, ABS, possibly PTEG, will take care of my needs. I don't have the space or inclination to set up a ventilated print room to handle the fumes produce when using some of the more durable and specialty plastics.

In reading reviews and comparisons, I am learning quite a bit about the basic differences in the machines. It is looking like a four color "bed slinger" is about the same pricing, as a single color "core X-Y" machine. I'd lean towards the "core X-Y" unit just because I believe over time it will be more durable. Although the "bed slinger" was a quieter machine with much the same print speed as the "X-Y" machine. Quiet is a factor in my situation. Not sure multiple colors is a big thing for me especially seeing the amount of waste when a color change is required during the print cycle. Will need to do more research before opening my wallet.

Thanks for your input. If I knew how to set up a "go fund me", I'm sure I could count on your support.

 

[Andrew Holley]

Mr. McCann,

My name is Michael Holley, you may remember my father, Andrew Holley. He sent you a bag of freeze-dried duck heads for one of your dogs a few years ago, we also have one of your craving knives from a get together many years ago. He asked me to help answer your questions, as I know some about 3D printers.

The best printer for your needs depends on a plethora of factors, including what materials you plan on using, build area, and preferred slicing software.

Assuming you tend to stick to the same few materials, such as PLA, PETG or ABS, you will be fine with the following list of printers. If you want to try printing with stronger materials in the future, such as ASA, Nylon, Polycarbonate, PET, or any kind of fiber reinforced material, then I would recommend looking specifically for a printer that can handle those higher temp materials. I would especially recommend getting an air purifier if you do decide to print with ABS, ASA, Nylon, or Polycarbonate, as printing with these materials produces fumes that can be unpleasant at best and hazardous to your health at worst.

I would also recommend re-evaluating what you need for a build area. You lose a lot of good options and increase your budget by looking for something that’s 250mm X 250mm X 250mm. Most standard printers aren’t that big, and tend to hover around the 8ish in. X 8ish in. X 8ish in. range.

As for slicing software, they’re all the same. Some brands will force you to use their proprietary software, as is the case for Anycubic and Bambu, while others allow you to use any slicer, as long as you set up or download a profile for your specific printer. I’ve used Anycubic Slicer, Cura, PrusaSlicer, and a few others, and they’re all basically the same, it’s just learning where everything is in the program.

The Bambu Lab A1 is a very solid choice. It has a build area of 256mm X 256mm X 256mm and sits at $399, although it’s currently on sale for $359. It has all the features of a modern printer: automatic bed leveling // calibration, active flow control, wireless printing, and filament runout detection. It comes with an integrated camera that you can use to remotely monitor prints with the companion app and cancel them if something goes wrong. It also supports multicolor printing with the AMS [Automatic Material System] lite, which can be purchased separately or with the AMS as a bundle. While the A1 does lack some of the high-end features that it’s big brother, the X1 carbon has, such as AI monitoring for prints and a wider range of compatible materials, this is still a very solid printer. The A1 has very good print quality, as seemingly all the Bambu printers do. It comes mostly preassembled and should require very little tinkering. While I’ve never used one firsthand, I’ve heard very good things from those that do.

An honorable mention goes to the Bambu Lab A1 Mini. While smaller than your requested build area, coming in at 180mm X 180mm X 180mm [7 in. X 7 in. X 7 in.], it has all the same features as the standard A1 while coming in a hundred dollars cheaper. If you don’t mind splitting your files into pieces and assembling them together after printing, this is a very solid option.

Creality has the Ender 3 line, which includes about a dozen sub models, of which the Ender-3 V3 Plus fits your build volume specifications at 300mm X 300mm x 330mm [11.8 in. X 11.8 in. X 12.9 in.] It sits at $479 normally, although it is currently on sale for $399. It shares many of the same features as the A1, like automatic bed leveling // calibration, active flow control, wireless printing, and filament runout detection. It can be equipped with a camera for remote monitoring, however that is something that has to be purchased separately. I’ve heard that it requires some tuning to get quality prints, but it’s nothing unreasonable.

In the same vein as the A1 mini, I’d recommend any of the older printers from the Ender 3 line. Theres a wide array of models, and each one is slightly different and has a different range of features. Most of them are smaller than your desired build volume, but they tend to be at least 8 in. X 8 in. X 8 in. They’re highly customizable and have a lot of support online and a bunch aftermarket parts. My first printer was an original Ender 3, and while it does require a solid amount of tuning to get it to make quality parts, it is a decent printer that’s usually less than $200.

As for durability, I haven’t seen a solid difference between a “Bed Slinger” style or a Core XY style printer. Generally, the manufacturer will determine durability.

 

[Carl]

Now that is some very thorough technical advice

 

[Huntindave McCann]

My name is Michael Holley, you may remember my father, Andrew Holley. He sent you a bag of freeze-dried duck heads for one of your dogs a few years ago, we also have one of your craving knives from a get together many years ago.

Hello Michael,
I do remember that get together, your father and the several bags of dog treats. Nice to hear that the carving knife is still around as well.

Thankyou for your detailed response, it is much appreciated. Of course it brings on more questions and options.
The printers that were on my short list;
(A) Bambu Lab A1 COMBO $509 (B) Bambu Lab P1P $520 (C) Anycubic Kobra 3 COMBO $399 (D) Anycubic Kobra 3 $299

You have added choice (E) Official Creality Ender 3 V3 Plus 3D Printer, 2024 New Version $419.00 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0D2SNHQMH/ref=sw_img_1?smid=A2ALB3RMNIRLH8

I am genuinely interested in your thoughts between these five models. I had actually initially narrowed the list to just the two Bambu models, but I may rethink that. If you have the time, I'd welcome your additional input on the machines themselves. Part of my conundrum is defining, in my own mind, my needs and/or wants.

"The Bambu Lab A1 is a very solid choice. ----- currently on sale for $359." This brings up the issue of single color versus 4 color. Seems the multi color option adds $100 to $150 to the price of any machine. So far, my needs have been met with a single color machine. Is "multi color" a frivolous option if one doesn't actually foresee the need? ( yes, I think I already know the answer, just wondering how often I might get a request for a multicolor job from friends.)

Thanks for your time.

 

[Richard Lathrop]

I have an Ender 3, unless you are using others models on sites like Thingiverse you also need to think about what modeling software you will be using. There is also time to develop models. I am not comfortable with prints taking over 24 hours so I don’t print much.

Rick

 

[Huntindave McCann]

I have an Ender 3, unless you are using others models on sites like Thingiverse you also need to think about what modeling software you will be using. There is also time to develop models. I am not comfortable with prints taking over 24 hours so I don’t print much.

Rick

Rick
I am using Fusion 360 (free version) to develop my models. In the past, all I did was draw the 2D view with dimensions. My friend would then develop the model, create the STL file and print the item. For just my latest project, I was able to develop the model in Fusion, export as a STL and send him the file. I am still in baby or toddler stage with Fusion and know nothing on the STL and printing end.
I do know some of the pieces he has done for me, have been an overnight print time. No idea what printer he has and what print speed it runs at.

 

[Richard Lathrop]

Rick
I am using Fusion 360 (free version) to develop my models. In the past, all I did was draw the 2D view with dimensions. My friend would then develop the model, create the STL file and print the item. For just my latest project, I was able to develop the model in Fusion, export as a STL and send him the file. I am still in baby or toddler stage with Fusion and know nothing on the STL and printing end.
I do know some of the pieces he has done for me, have been an overnight print time.

Dave,

I use Fusion360 as well.

Rick

 

[Huntindave McCann]

To those that may be following this thread, a little background FWIW

I worked in a tool and die shop for the majority of my career. Learned my limited drafting skills in high school (1969 grad) using a Tee square, triangles, compass, pencil and paper (and many erasers). Went into machining in 1979. The shop was entirely manual machines. Around the early '90s I ran the first CNC we purchased. The programs were stored and read from "paper ticker tape". It was interesting learning a new skill, until I started doing "production runs" just to keep the machine busy and pay for itself. Running production, I felt like a trained monkey, changing tools and parts. Told the boss he could better utilize my skills by having me building the custom tooling we specialized in. So went back to manual machines and bench work. Our shop specialized in designing/building the machines and tools, which various industries, used to produce their product, which they would then sell to the consumer. Various industries to the extreme, railroad, automotive, recreational, office, appliance, health, military and space, etc. domestic and worldwide. Doing "one of a kind" projects, over such a varied customer base, was interesting in itself. No two projects were the same (with the exception of some repeat builds).

For many years I ran a rather large horizontal boring mill 72" vertical by 144" horizontal with 48" Z travel on the table and 36" Z travel on the spindle. This was an older manual machine which, at one point in time, I helped rebuild and convert the machine, to a basic (1 axis moving at a time) programmable CNC. Around 2010 we replaced several manual machines with CNC and "my" machine went down the road.

I then graduated to a full CNC, vertical mill, with decent size 36"vertical with 72" by 125" horizontal travel. I did 90% of my own programming, but my programming skills were limited to programming for 2D milling operations and vertical drilling/boring operations. We had another fellow in the "design" side of the business, who wrote all the programming for 3D profile milling.

Then I retired and forgot much of what I had learned about programming. Enter in my desire to build a fer simple projects that sometimes are best built with a 3D printer. Now I'm in the position to self teach myself, the concept of designing and programming in full 3D. One might think it is a simple transition but it more like (to me) learning a foreign language. I am learning, the journey is fun and at the same time frustrating. My past experiences sometimes are helpful and at other times create a stumbling block.

Before my years in the tool and die shop, I repaired small engines and related equipment. If I tore it apart I could put it back together.

There! That's 20 minutes of useless info about me. Did I mention my typing skills suck.

 

[Andrew Holley]

Hello Michael,
I do remember that get together, your father and the several bags of dog treats. Nice to hear that the carving knife is still around as well.

Thankyou for your detailed response, it is much appreciated. Of course it brings on more questions and options.
The printers that were on my short list;
(A) Bambu Lab A1 COMBO $509 (B) Bambu Lab P1P $520 (C) Anycubic Kobra 3 COMBO $399 (D) Anycubic Kobra 3 $299

You have added choice (E) Official Creality Ender 3 V3 Plus 3D Printer, 2024 New Version $419.00 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0D2SNHQMH/ref=sw_img_1?smid=A2ALB3RMNIRLH8

I am genuinely interested in your thoughts between these five models. I had actually initially narrowed the list to just the two Bambu models, but I may rethink that. If you have the time, I'd welcome your additional input on the machines themselves. Part of my conundrum is defining, in my own mind, my needs and/or wants.

"The Bambu Lab A1 is a very solid choice. ----- currently on sale for $359." This brings up the issue of single color versus 4 color. Seems the multi color option adds $100 to $150 to the price of any machine. So far, my needs have been met with a single color machine. Is "multi color" a frivolous option if one doesn't actually foresee the need? ( yes, I think I already know the answer, just wondering how often I might get a request for a multicolor job from friends.)

Thanks for your time.

Personally, If I was in your position, I would pick the Bambu A1

For context, I picked up an Anycubic Kobra 2 Max about a year and a half ago. It’s a very nice printer that makes quality prints, has quite a few nice quality of life features that are leaps and bounds better than my Ender 3, and has an absolutely massive build volume. I haven’t ran into that many issues with it, and the ones that I have run into were minor or easily fixed, either on my own or with the help of their support team. Print quality leaves just a little bit to be desired in some minor areas, but whether it is an issue with my print settings or an issue with Anycubic’s slicer software remains to be seen.

Both the A1 and the Kobra 3 are very similar printers. They both have functionally the same build volumes, officially support the same materials, and have the same set of features: automatic bed leveling // calibration, active flow control, wireless printing, filament runout detection, and options for remote monitoring. Their toolhead speeds are functionally the same, and both can be equipped with a multi color filament system.
As for noise, both printers have “silent” modes that decrease the feedrate to make the machine run a little quieter. On my Kobra 2 Max, this significantly decreases the noise the printer makes when moving, although, ironically, most of the noise the printer makes is from the PSU fan. I can say from personal experience that, even with silent mode engaged, you cannot sleep in the same room with the printer while it is running. Thankfully soldering in a quieter fan is an easy enough fix, although I think they have fixed this for the Kobra 3s. From what I’ve seen, both machines tend to work at the about the same noise level.

The biggest difference between the two printers would be quality control. While I have thankfully not experienced it, I have heard that Anycubic has had a fair number of QC problems with their FDM printers. That being said, they have good warranty coverage and a solid return policy and will not hesitate to send you a replacement should you run into any serious trouble. The Bambu A1, aside from a brief recall, lacks most of these QC problems, but I’ve heard good things about their return policies.

Like I said earlier, I would personally go with the A1. Generally, it seems that it’s easier to tune to get high quality prints out of, whether that be machine construction or how the slicer software is programmed. They also have a wider range of aftermarket parts on their website, such as different bed options and nozzle sizes. Although, again, these printers are very similar, practically identical. Anycubic made the Kobra 3 to be a direct competitor to the A1, and they certainly did a good job for their lesser price point.

As for a multi color filament system for either printer, I have never needed a part that’s made from multiple colors that I couldn’t achieve by pausing the print and swapping filaments. It would be a nice option to have, so the parts that you make could have different colored sections depending on use or functionality, although it’d be mostly a novelty in my opinion. I’m certain that if friends knew that you had a machine capable of doing that, you would get a bunch of requests of whatever cool thing they found on Instagram or Tik Tok or whatever. Just keep in mind that you would need to keep at least a roll of most shades of color to pull this off.

And for the record, I think your typing skills are spot on.

 

[Huntindave McCann]

And for the record, I think your typing skills are spot on.

Thanks for the laugh, if you only knew how much time it took me to correctly type that.

I can not begin to express my thanks for your time and expertise. I don't mind spending a bit more if I can understand and accept the added value over the cheapest route. I too, had just about decided that the Bambu Lab A1 or the A1 combo option, was my best choice.

 

[Ed L.]

You have been given a lot of good information here. A lot of things to research. You might remember my son Kyle and his days of building CNC machine centers and the decoy weight molds he made. He's since moved on to Lazer printers and he's waiting for delivery now on a large format engraver. In between all this he has a 3d printer. Actually several. I don't think I posted this here but a guitar was one of his projects for the 3d printer. The online file that everyone was using wasn't stable enough to be able to hold the guitar neck solid and so it would not hold tuning. He revised and remodeled the body to his liking after some FEA study's...lol. anyway this is the result. If you have any other questions I'm sure he would be happy to help.