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rfberan

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I've been fishing in north central PA since 1965. I've encountered timber rattlers on the roads but until this past trip never on the stream. I had been fishing 30-45 minutes and caught my 7th trout. WAs feeling relaxed, took a photo and released the fish then decided just to sit back on the bank as I was kneeling right in front of it. Normally I would look around, however, I had been moving around and never thought to look back. I was retying and dressing my fly and suddenly heard the unmistakable rattle. It was behind and I didn't turn to look, I just rolled forward into the stream. When my heart started again, I saw them. Maybe 3 feet from by back. We presume that the smaller black one was a male ane the huge one the female. The smaller one never turned to look at me, just concentrated its attention on the big one. The girth of the yellow one actually turned my stomach. I'm sure for those of you used to diamondback encounters I seem like a woos. I've had three encounters with Mississauga rattlers in Ontario back in the 70's, so this wasn't my first. My thought is had it struck most likely would have hit the backpack of my vest, however, had it hit me in the neck it may not have been a good outcome.View attachment IMG_5164.jpgView attachment IMG_5173.jpgView attachment IMG_5153.jpgView attachment IMG_5156.jpg
 
The only "friends" I see are in the first three photos. [;)]

I don't go around just killing snakes but I prefer a long distance, out of sight-out of mind relationship.

Glad you are here to write about your encounter. Thanks for sharing,,,,,,,, I think.
 
Back when I did a lot of gopher tortoise work in south MS & AL, we saw tons of diamond backs, some of which were way to close for comfort.
Most never moved & stayed silent, some rattled. But none struck even when they clearly had a chance too.
As in I dropped a roll of survey flags on the one at my feet and all she did was rattle and say "get away".

Love the photos, very jealous, I haven't caught a PA trout on a fly in 20 years+.
 
When I went with my Uncle as a teenager, he killed several. All of which we ate. Since snake does not appeal to me, since they are protected, since I figured no good would come to messing around with them, we all went our separate ways. This stretch of stream I have fished for 50 years and is always productive (catch and release), however, they now are felling trees into the stream to "protect" the trout and "create" new stream bed conditions. I understand the concept, but as is typical, they have gotten way too zealous in doing this. Every 25-50yds. 2-3 large trees were over the stream. After my encounter I was not leaving the stream to go around these obstacles, so it made for a very long and laborious fishing experience. Why this excessive measure in a beautiful stream that has always produced 20-30 fish every time I've fished it is IMO losing perspective on the fishing experience and focusing only on the fish. Without the fishermen, there wouldn't be money for these "experts' " jobs. Moderation would seem more appropriate? You can see there is enough natural obstruction to challenge the fly casting angler.View attachment IMG_5159.jpg
 
This post from Bowsite web site is probably the most graphic snake bite story I've read. It's quite long with all the replies.

https://forums2.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=477900&messages=9&forum=36
 
Boy, now I really feel lucky! I appreciate you sharing. This experience has definitely caused me to re-evaluate my attention while in those areas. I've always been very careful, but maybe not careful enough. Anytime I'm walking around the streams through the ferns and grass I have a walking stick to make noise in front of me. From now on my buddy and I will pool hop or at least stay in contact as opposed to splitting up and fishing up to the car or a spot.
Appreciate the info.
 
rfberan said:
When I went with my Uncle as a teenager, he killed several. All of which we ate. Since snake does not appeal to me, since they are protected, since I figured no good would come to messing around with them, we all went our separate ways. This stretch of stream I have fished for 50 years and is always productive (catch and release), however, they now are felling trees into the stream to "protect" the trout and "create" new stream bed conditions. I understand the concept, but as is typical, they have gotten way too zealous in doing this. Every 25-50yds. 2-3 large trees were over the stream. After my encounter I was not leaving the stream to go around these obstacles, so it made for a very long and laborious fishing experience. Why this excessive measure in a beautiful stream that has always produced 20-30 fish every time I've fished it is IMO losing perspective on the fishing experience and focusing only on the fish. Without the fishermen, there wouldn't be money for these "experts' " jobs. Moderation would seem more appropriate? You can see there is enough natural obstruction to challenge the fly casting angler.
Click to expand...

i don't offer opinion on the validity or benefit of a specific surgery or surgical technique, because I was never trained as a surgeon. Why is it that anyone who purchases a fishing license immediately acquires top tier ability to manage fish populations better than those 'experts' who are both trained, backgrounded, and tasked with improving carrying capacity of the lotic and lentic waters they are charged to manage. You seem to be at a complete loss to grasp the stream management actions are undertaken with long-term benefit goals, which obviously conflict with you focus on your specific interval of contact.

Streams generally dissipate kinetic energy imparted by their gradient by flowing in a general sine-wave fashion. Often felled trees augment this flow pattern and improve carrying capacity via enhancing or creating holding cover, varying flow rates that a variety of aquatic insects inhabit with a consequent increase in carrying capacity. Brook trout along with the other char are highly susceptible to hook and line induced mortality, doing best in water courses where escape cover is high. As long as there is sufficient overhead leaf canopy cover to significantly absorb and dissipate the energy imparted to rain drops as they fall, absorbing most of it prior the rain drops falling to the forest floor or running down the bark, minimizing their ability to break down ped size of soil particles, as well as eliminating or minimizing overland run off flows which serves to carry these smaller particles into the stream bed in suspended runoff.. The combination of increased non-biogenic turbidity and increased sunlight penetration both, when elevated act together or singularly over time to warm lotic water courses, often elevating them to levels where dissolved oxygen levels are significantly impaired. I see a very stable stream bank with enough downed trees to generate under cut banks and deep pools for trout to hold in and under.. Browns prefer overhead cover. Brook trout like undercut banks and woody structure, particularly dense escape cover. Rainbow generally prefer lateral cover.

Perhaps you would be a better fit for a trout club where the fishery and its habitat is managed more along the lines of a golf course, rather than wild trout waters.
 
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Glad you weren't struck.

Down here in NC as I begin scouting for squirrels, deer and ducks, I wear snake gaiters. It gives me some extra protection in case my eye wanders away from the ground beneath my feet. Thus far I have not needed them but I expect at some point that my path will cross with copperhead or timber rattler.

Larry
 

This summer has been perfect rattlesnake weather, for where you were in PA, and where we are in western NY (not that far apart as the crow flies).

Nice trout.

Next time ya go to church, ya might wanna put some extra in the collection plate. [;)]



VP
 
First of all I merely expressed my opinion. I clearly state I don?t argue with the concept or the science
, I simply disagree with excessive nature of the practice as I experienced after fishing these streams for 55 years. Since I assume you didn?t fish the stream and see what I saw first hand, I find it ironic that you can state so definitively the nature of the situation.To say I belong in a trout club is IMO more absurd that my belief that the number of downed trees was excessive. I at least based my opinion on first hand experience not theory and supposition. I appreciate any education provided, but to chastise me is offensive to say the least. I have seen this on multiple occasions on this site and it IMO is conducive to the fellowship of the site.
 
Great photos, scary encounter, nice recovery! The brookies are outstanding and classic small stream PA. You're fortunate to have so many great little streams producing wild trout in PA. Many of them are close to their original state, which are as productive naturally as they should be. I also do not agree with messing with wild fish to improve habitat if it is already good, and it seems the stream you're describing is. Mother nature does the very best job at that. Artificial improvements may provide increase productivity of a water temporarily, but must be continued for the effect to sustain itself. The very best situation is a natural stream of wild fish, preferably native ones(keep a few browns sometime). Trees fall down on their own and into the water. In heavily fished waters that are marginalized due to development, loss of groundwater, loss of the forest canopy, and degradation from other land use, then there is a legitimate reason to do so. Do you ever fish Cedar or Slate Run? That is great rattlesnake country.
 
I, too, merely expressed my opinion...based on my training and experience as a fishery biologist. I can infer several quite salient points from the pictures you posted as well as comments. You sate that this watershed has been producing good fishing for trout for several decades. You state it is also a catch and release stream. I can infer from these points as well as your additional comments that it is heavily managed as well as likely supplemented via plants. Either one of these or both have carried this fishery.to this inflection point. You fail to state that any earlier marked watercourse management has occurred during the years you have fished it, so i would concur that this current physical alteration is likely quite necessary to support the fishery. I also know that population density has increased markedly in the U.S. as well as the northeast, likely increasing usage. Post-hooking mortality studies indicate highly variable mortality values, with increased death rates in all studies that assessed hooking mortality for 24 hours or more after release. Water temperature, duration that the fish is played before being brought to hand, as well as handling methods prior release impact mortality, as well as use of barbed hooks.

I hope you were using barbless hooks. I hope you simply cut that deeply hooked brook trout off, particularly if it was hooked anywhere near or within the gill arches which contain the afferent and efferent brachial arteries. I would also encourage you to keep your trophies in the medium that supplies them with physical support and not play them to exhaustion(they are no flopping around) and then lay them on land for pictures prior release, since removing a fish from water causes the gill lamellae leaflets to collapse and adhere to each other, significantly reducing surface area available for oxygen uptake and carbon dioxide release, as well as nitrogenous waste release via their specialized ATP driven cells in the gills.. Remember, fish only have a two chamber heart, so the elevated free CO2 levels and elevated lactic acid debt incurred while being played to hand and handled poorly prior release all act to markedly overwhelm the carbonate/bi-carbonate buffer system in their plasma because of their longer recovery interval. Physically lifting fish from water can cause marked internal organ damage as well, particularly if they are handled via a hand wrapped around the peritoneum.

I didn't state that you belong in a trout club. I said you would be better suited to being a trout club fisher, since they manage their waters more along the lines of a golf course to provide "sport" as well as an asthetically pleasing experience.
 
RLLigman,

I woke up today with a smile on my face and the sun shining thru the kitchen window. It was truly an enjoyable experience, right up until I opened my computer and read your most current response.

Thank you for bringing me back to reality. Thank you for being so superior and condescending. Thank you for throwing a blanket on my day. I fully realize that your comments and response were not directed at me, rather they were cast across the entire audience here, reading this otherwise enjoyable thread.

* this is just my opinion, your mileage may vary *
 
I?ve been too busy The last few days to comment here, but I read your thread and appreciated you taking the time to share your photos and story. Too few folks take the time to post up a noteworthy or interesting trip like this. Thanks. For the snakes it is far too easy for me to forget their beauty and just think of their bite, your photo captures them interacting socially, which I haven?t seen and is a reminder of how interesting they are (even if I prefer not to share a sleeping bag with them).

Keep your head up there are many that appreciate your post and experience shared.

As for the stream, give the local fish biologist a call and ask about their management goals for that stretch, I?m sure you will find some interesting information. I?ve had nothing but positive interactions when contacting those professionals about their work, they are usually down to earth great guys (sometimes gals) that are eager to communicate the goals with the public. They can be hard to get on the phone because they are busy, but worth it once you do. Might lead to a good fishing tip too, it has for me for sure.
 
I think Lee Harker put it best when he said something to the effect of "someone needs to take a poop"
 

Weeks ago a western PA outdoor writer, and friend of mine wrote a article about not fishing for Wild Trout, in PA, due to the temps, and mortality rate. He has a very fine camp in Warren County, and seldom fishes for stocked trout, but is not a ardent fly fisherman.

Also mentioned was the discussions about closing, or curtailing Trout Season during the months of July and August, in parts of PA, due to trout mortality. Mandatory would be much worse than voluntary IMO.


We each have our own excursions and experiences. Let he without sin cast the first stone.


Cedar & Slate Runs have already been mentioned. If one goes to the Slate Run Tackle Shop website, they give stream conditions, as well as fishing advisories.

Bottom line is, many of us are passionate outdoors folks. That try to do what is best for the habitat & trout, and can be fervent, and dissimilar in how we express it.


That the trout are there, and hopefully continue to be there makes our hearts glad.



VP
 
Of the various waterfowl hunting sites that I frequent, this site has the least (almost no) "stone-throwing". I enjoy that!

Maybe we can keep it that way by handling any strong disagreements via Private Message, then perhaps leading to a friendly phone call between only the parties involved.
 
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