new motor

Allen Chisholm

New member
I am buying a new motor for my 16ft flat bottom boat, it takes up too a 25hp motor and I have been thinking about a mud buddy long tail . I will be using the boat in the open ocean to hunt sea ducks as well as in the marshes around cape cod and was wondering if anyone has been in the open water with a mud buddy or should I just stick with the conventional 25hp merc
 
I know very little about mud motors but it's my guess that you would have trouble keeping the prop in the water if it gets rough on open water.
 
A flat bottom jonboat with a mud motor does not sound really safe in the open salt water. It might just be me though.
 
DO NOT USE A LONGTAIL ON A FLAT (OR ANYTHING) IN OPEN WATER!!!!!!!

I used to have a 20hp on a 1650 Express... I recall chasing a cripple on a 17,000 acres resevoir.... Scary as hell when turning in waves....

JMO
 
I have a 16' mod v jon with a 23 hp long tail. I will run it on open water but I am very cautious in waves. A long tail tends to push the nose of the boat down and you get no lift over the waves. You slam into them instead. It is a very wet ride. The boat also takes a very wide turn and can be tricky turning in anything over 1' waves. I generally avoid any open water runs if the surf is up. (like last Saturday) On a relatively calm day I have taken 10 mile trips scouting shoreline. I then wait for an offshore breeze to hunt the area.

I also have a conventional aluminum boat with a 25 HP but it won't do marshes the way the mud motor will. I have considered selling it and buying an outboard for my jon and then switching motors based on the need.

IMG00200.jpg

 
Think about a surface drive mud motor. I have heard good things about them. I haven't used one but one of my co-workers (shop teacher who makes his own calls, motors.....) first built his own long tail and then built his own surface drive and loves it.
 
I also have 1648 mod v with a 23 hp mudbuddy longtail.I can tell with absolute certainty
that it is absolutely dangerous in big water.I have a 12' MLB wigeon that is 5x safer in big swells
or whitecaps than this boat.The longtail,flat bottom boat is a marsh boat,that's it.I don't want to
discourage you.It's fun having a shallow water boat but it will get you hurt in big,open water.
 
This is a recipe for disaster. A flat bottom boat has no place on the open ocean. Nor does a long tail motor.
Like others have noted, long tails & rough water just dont mix. You will get pounded, have little control in critical situation and no HP to get out of tough spots.

Flat bottom boats with longtails are meant for shallow, weedy/muddy waters. Not for seaducking.
I think you need to re-think your entire rig.
 
I've fished the cape a little. I know you've got some killer tides and you probably get a lot of shallow water situations, but i don't think you have the mud like we have here (south Louisiana). I currently have two surface drive rigs, and had a long tail on one. None of the mud rigs are very well suited for open water applications. I would stick with an outboard. An outboard will go many more places than people give them credit for. And unless you have long runs across mud, a paddle and push pole will get you most places that a longtail will. the reason we have such a prevelance of mud rigs down here is that we have very long runs in very little water. i might run two miles and be spitting mud the entire time. I think where you are, you have a deep water run and then you access a shallow tidal creek or marsh for a short period. IMO I would go with the outboard.
 
Your water is probably a lot like the saltwater spots I hunt and fish. I've only ever seen one long tail motor in Maine, and that was on a big john boat used exclusively on the Kennebec River. The owner loved it, but nobody else picked one up. I have not seen, but am aware of one other mud motor rig up here, and it's used on a very shallow/muddy impounded lake. I'm sure there are others, but it's sure not something you regularly see on the water or at the boat yard.

If shallow depth, but not extensive mud flats, are your concern, you might want to consider a jet drive. Lots of the folks who guide on rivers use them up here. You will lose horsepower compared to the same size outboard with a prop, and therefore end up with a heavier motor on your transom, but if hitting rocks and gravel bars that will wreck your lower unit is a concern, folks seem to like them.

I don't know how they do in thick weeds and mud. I would suspect heavy weeds might be a problem, as I've seen them clog up on occasion.

With care, a push pole, and judicious use of tilt, I am able to get my 14 foot deep V into some pretty skinny water, and when I run through standing waves on some of the tidal "reversing falls" we get up here I am a lot more comfortable than I'd be in flat bottomed boat, but I don't run the shallows at high speed the way I see guys do on TV.
 
Here is a newspaper article pertaining to one of my buddies experience last fall in northern mi, we were out the same day about 40 miles north of him, the weather was bad but I don't think they would have ended
up like they did if they would have had an outboard, the longtails are just not made for running in that kind of water...something to consider

“It was a quiet hunt, with none of us even taking our safety off. However it was pleasurable nonetheless, just to be out on the bay in one of my favorite places,” said Alonzo Knowles of Traverse City of the hunting trip with his two friends, Simon Joseph of Lake Ann and Kyle Marshall of Elk Rapids, and his dog, “Maisey.”
At the beginning of their hunt the weather was warm but very windy — out of the south at 30-plus mph. On their journey from Barbeau to Sand Island, they experienced 2 to 3 foot waves, which Knowles said aren’t uncommon on the bay and their boat handled it well.
“But our trip back was entirely different,” Knowles said.
Immediately after rounding the north point of Sand Island, the hunters realized that the waves were larger and were coming across the bow instead of beside the boat.
“In the dark, it was hard to tell that the waves had grown quite as much as they had,” Knowles said. “When we took our first wave over the bow of our boat, it was already too late.”

Knowles continued, “Maybe it was a rogue wave, but whatever the case, two more waves followed it and within 30 seconds we were swamped and going down.”
After another 30 seconds they were capsized and the three friends and the dog were in the cold water.
“It was an extremely unnerving moment for all of us,” Knowles said. “After 20 years hunting Munuscong and 30 years of chasing ducks on the Great Lakes, dangerous possibilities are always in the back of your mind, but it is not something that you want to dwell on.”
Fortunately, Knowles cellular phone was kept dry when they capsized. He had get just enough cell signal to get off a 911 call on which he gave their coordinates. Then the phone was thoroughly soaked and dead.
“The next two hours were the longest of all our lives,” Knowles said. “In retrospect, I was fortunate to be with two other strong, calm minded individuals who stepped up and displayed nothing less than heroic efforts towards our group’s survival.
“At some point around an hour or so into our ordeal,” Knowles added, “my dog Maisey, slipped off the bottom of our boat, and that was the last we saw of her. I can’t quite explain how we were able to hold onto the bottom of that boat, which was submerged below the water somewhat. The waves were crashing over us constantly and in 46 degree water our arms and legs were becoming non-responsive and with our core temps coming down. We realized it was only a matter of time before hypothermia would take hold and completely disable us.”
After receiving the 911 call, emergency crews were dispatched from the Sault and surrounding areas. Rescue teams from the U.S. Coast Guard from Sector Sault, the Michigan DNR, Michigan State Police, the Chippewa County Sheriff’s Department and the Traverse City Coast Guard base. Also, when private citizens heard the distress call on the scanner, they helped with the search and rescue.
“I’m not sure exactly how many people were involved,” Knowles said. “But each responder selflessly put his life on the line for us that night. They fought through 3-5 foot waves, 30-plus mph winds and periods of fog to save our lives. Without their efforts, I question whether we would be alive today.”
After two hours in the water, the hunters were rescued by MSP Trooper Dan Rambo, Chippewa County Sheriff’s Deputy Kip Moeggenborg and one other officer whose name Knowles did not get.
“Shaking uncontrollably from the onset of hypothermia on the bottom of our boat, much of the ride back to shore was a blur to me,” Knowles said. “We were greeted by an ambulance with warm blankets open arms and smiling faces.
“Never in my life have I been so humbled,” Knowles added. “Thanks to the efforts of all involved, a most successful outcome was achieved. Not only had we been rescued, I was also informed that the word had gone out that my 18-month-old, yellow lab was lost in the marsh.”
Rambo and Moeggenborg went out of their way to get the word out to the local community about Maisey.
Concerned Barbeau residents mobilized their efforts and spent countless hours walking the shoreline, wading the swamps, and searching the marsh by boat. On Sunday morning, after 36 hours in the marsh, Maisey and Knowles were reunited. They found her after driving down several miles of flooded two tracks off of 18 Mile Road.
“Thank you, thank you, thank you!,” Knowles said. “Never could I have imagined an outcome like this. I can’t begin to express how thankful we all are for your combined efforts.”
 
Thanks for the feedback , I have dropped the long tail and will go with the 25hp merc . The flat bottom boat is not a problem , the area around Plymouth Ma . that we hunt is very well protected and the weather plays a big part there is days to be on the ocean and then there is days to just setup on a cranberry bog and you better know those days around here.
 
Allen,
sounds like you have a good grasp of it.


I have a story similar to the one above RE a carolina Skiff and fall blue fishing that didnt turn out so well.

Be careful on the big water in a flat bottom John type boat.


A dory is a whole nother story.
 
Boy...... when I hunted off of Plymouth... I don't know if I would ever use a flat out there.... but to each their own... be safe...
 
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