NJ brant season got cut
- Thread starter Chris S.
- Start date
Carl, shame on you for questioning our bureaucrats! They don't need to wait for the data to make a decision.
Come on Carl, do you see the government using any data recently where they care to share their data sources?...LOL. I'm still looking for the 90 percent of those polled that want more gun control and background checks. Damn it, there I go. Sorry to have brought this up again!
joseph van wie
Active member
Carl your from the southern states where the polatitions are honest & are working for you! Up here in the northeast they are corrupt & have there own egenda & ---- everybody else. Sorry just call it as I see it. Joe
I checked flyways and usfws and there is nothing about that, did you read this somewhere?
I don't know where Chris got the information but the Atlantic Flyway Council doesn't meet to discuss the waterfowl hunting seasons until July. Their recommendations wont be transmitted to and considered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service until late July. I don't know if the Atlantic Flyway Council has updated it's Atlantic Brant Management Plan since 2002 http://www.mdwfa.org/flyway/AFBrantManagementPlan2002.pdf. But the Management Plan establishes a season recommendation of 50 days and a 2 bird bag limit if the Mid-Winter waterfowl Count is between 125,000 and 150,000 birds. The Mid-Winter Waterfowl Count is done in early January. The January 2012 count was 149,157 http://www.dnr.state.md.us/wildlife/Hunt_Trap/pdfs/afcmidwinter2012.pdf. I wasn't able to find the comparable number for 2013 yet. I suppose that the count may have dropped below 125,000 to trigger more restrictive regulations but don't know if it is the case.
The Management Plan and Hunt Strategy prescribes the hunting season length and bag limit based upon a count that was done in January, so the regulations are set on data, just not data from the breeding season. Any discussion of cutting to 34 days instead of 50 would be outside of the prescribed season in the management plan. It is a strange restriction. States can be more restrictive than what the Feds allow, but it is pretty rare. Its possible the state decided to be more restrictive due to habitat loss from Sandy or some other reason but most states don't make those changes unless they are forced to take action and usually those decisions are made in August.
The Management Plan and Hunt Strategy prescribes the hunting season length and bag limit based upon a count that was done in January, so the regulations are set on data, just not data from the breeding season. Any discussion of cutting to 34 days instead of 50 would be outside of the prescribed season in the management plan. It is a strange restriction. States can be more restrictive than what the Feds allow, but it is pretty rare. Its possible the state decided to be more restrictive due to habitat loss from Sandy or some other reason but most states don't make those changes unless they are forced to take action and usually those decisions are made in August.
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Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Brad et al~
I had gotten wind of this restriction last month. I have not heard the actual figure but I had heard that the numbers from the Mid-Winter Survey were way down. Apparently most of the birds were in the Long Island area (maybe including CT) - where they were exceptionally abundant when I was gunning there in late-January - but they were down elsewhere throughout the wintering range.
While I am no fan of our Governor's politics, I think all we are seeing here is a prudent approach to managing a species that has never been especially populous and - because it breeds so far north - regularly suffers poor production years. Unlike some other species, I would always put more stock in the Mid-Winter Survey than in any breeding ground data. Best annual production info doesn't come until pre-season surveys on the wintering grounds - too late to affect season date decisions.
It's true that the USFWS "framework" for seasons and bags is never firm until mid-August (for legal reasons). But, we in NYS (and I think elsewhere) develop recommended season dates - through a system of waterfowler task forces - in early spring so we are prepared when the frameworks are officially announced. Obviously, information will be better later in the year, but we start with the best available data - prepared to accept changes if necessary.
When I started gunning Brant (mid '60s) the bag was 6 per day. Since then I've seen it completely closed and as low as 2 during other lean years. I've never felt that these decisions were driven by anything other than biology. And, I'm confident I'll enjoy generous bags again in future seasons.
All the best,
SJS
I had gotten wind of this restriction last month. I have not heard the actual figure but I had heard that the numbers from the Mid-Winter Survey were way down. Apparently most of the birds were in the Long Island area (maybe including CT) - where they were exceptionally abundant when I was gunning there in late-January - but they were down elsewhere throughout the wintering range.
While I am no fan of our Governor's politics, I think all we are seeing here is a prudent approach to managing a species that has never been especially populous and - because it breeds so far north - regularly suffers poor production years. Unlike some other species, I would always put more stock in the Mid-Winter Survey than in any breeding ground data. Best annual production info doesn't come until pre-season surveys on the wintering grounds - too late to affect season date decisions.
It's true that the USFWS "framework" for seasons and bags is never firm until mid-August (for legal reasons). But, we in NYS (and I think elsewhere) develop recommended season dates - through a system of waterfowler task forces - in early spring so we are prepared when the frameworks are officially announced. Obviously, information will be better later in the year, but we start with the best available data - prepared to accept changes if necessary.
When I started gunning Brant (mid '60s) the bag was 6 per day. Since then I've seen it completely closed and as low as 2 during other lean years. I've never felt that these decisions were driven by anything other than biology. And, I'm confident I'll enjoy generous bags again in future seasons.
All the best,
SJS
ALLEGEDLT, the winter flyover count seems to have found a rather low population of brant along the atlantic, and YES the states do this. Apparently, after the Sandy event, a lot of the traditional feeding areas had the sea lettuce areas covered with sand, causing the brant to go feed elsewhere. For example, all of the brant hunters kenw that the brant that usually ply Rehoboth and indian river bay in delaware were feeding in some stubble over in Millsboro, and also on golf courses and condo lawns west of the bay--Of course, the pilots and spotters did NOT know this and failed to look in other locations, thus, a LOW population occurred. I am sure this was the case in most of the states that experienced Sandy, and Jersey's population found other places to feed until the lettuce came back late in the season.
Anyway, right now, they are erring on the side of conservancy, so we get a two bird per day, thirty day season, simply because of some inability to know that the brant had changed their habits. Interesting note--The delaware F&W advisory council and employes of dnrec's F&W division told us at a meeting in February about the "FED" decision, and were not aware of the brant changing their feeding habits UNTIL THAT MEETING. So much for the "experts" being up on what was going on. Perhaps the spring breeding counts in the north will be ok on the nesting grounds, and those who were lost will have been found.
As an addicted branter, if there WAS indeed, a drop in the population, i would prefer that a conservative approach was taken, on the side of the species.
Anyway, right now, they are erring on the side of conservancy, so we get a two bird per day, thirty day season, simply because of some inability to know that the brant had changed their habits. Interesting note--The delaware F&W advisory council and employes of dnrec's F&W division told us at a meeting in February about the "FED" decision, and were not aware of the brant changing their feeding habits UNTIL THAT MEETING. So much for the "experts" being up on what was going on. Perhaps the spring breeding counts in the north will be ok on the nesting grounds, and those who were lost will have been found.
As an addicted branter, if there WAS indeed, a drop in the population, i would prefer that a conservative approach was taken, on the side of the species.
Chris S.
Well-known member
I got
North zone Oct 12th to 24th and Nov 16th to Jan 12th
South zone Oct 19th to the 26th and Nov 16th to Jan 16th
Coastal Nov 2nd to the 12th and Nov 28th to Jan 25.
Brant is from Nov 2nd to the 12th and Dec 21st to Jan 14th
I got the info from a friend who helps run on e of the DU chapters. I could be wrong.
North zone Oct 12th to 24th and Nov 16th to Jan 12th
South zone Oct 19th to the 26th and Nov 16th to Jan 16th
Coastal Nov 2nd to the 12th and Nov 28th to Jan 25.
Brant is from Nov 2nd to the 12th and Dec 21st to Jan 14th
I got the info from a friend who helps run on e of the DU chapters. I could be wrong.