OT--Time for Generator

Jeff Reardon

Jeff Reardon

Well-known member
The Christmas ice storm in 2013 didn't kick us over the edge, but this last windstorm did. I have been informed that there will be a generator at our house before this happens again, or else. I tried to explain that kerosene heaters and lights are romantic. This did not go over well.

So, knowing next to nothing about backup generators--a standby is not in the budget--I look to the group here for advice.

We have a small (2,000 square foot) house, with a well and oil boiler/hot water heater. At minimum I want to be able to run my well pump, the boiler, a chest freezer, and the refrigerator. If we can get lights, too, that's great but not essential. We have an electric range/oven, but can cook on a propane camp stove and the grill if needed.

Various online calculators have suggested I need anything from about 6,000 watts to 10,000 or more. The price difference between those end points is large enough that I am looking for some informed opinions. Interested in gasoline, not propane or diesel due to cold temps here making either of those potentially problematic in winter.

There are several Generac generators in that range (6500, 7000, 8000 watts) that would be in our price range. Does anyone have experience with those, or suggestions for other reliable units.
 
Can't help with first hand knowledge but can refer you to a recent thread that may get the ball rolling. http://www.duckboats.net/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_threaded;post=298848
 
Jeff,
I have a Generac that has a continuous rating of only 4500 watts, but has a surge rating of 6000 watts, which is important because of the starting current surge of electric motors. This model also supposedly has some kind of circuitry that keeps the power clean enough for electronics. During an outage we continue to use our computers, television, dvd player, etc. like normal. One thing nice about using a smaller-sized generator is that it uses less fuel, meaning you won't have to keep a large quantity on hand or run out as often to replenish your fuel supply. I just rely on the same jerry cans I use for our mower, garden tractor, snowblower, etc. That way it stays fresh because it is always being used and replaced on a regular basis.
Our propane-fired furnace needs power only for the air handler blower and the induced-draft blower. I'm thinking your oil-fired furnace would be simlar.
The propane-fired water heater only needs power for the induced-draft blower. This is a tiny blower motor and barely takes any power.
The propane-fired clothes dryer only needs power for the timer circuit, solenoid valves, and the tumbling motor.
Apparently, a lot of people have really big well pumps; I'm not sure why. That might take a bigger generator, but our well pump is just 120 volts, not 240, and runs happily on a 15 amp circuit.
We have a large refrigerator in the kitchen, and in the basement we have an upright freezer and a small fridge.
We have lost power numerous times, sometimes for a few days. The generator has come through like a champ each time. Here's how we use ours:
The furnace, well pump, and water heater stay powered up without interruption except for certain occasional situations as mentioned below.
The fridge in the kitchen gets unplugged only when we are doing something particularly power-hungry, such as using the microwave oven or doing laundry. In fact, if we are using the washing machine or a blow dryer we might even turn off the furnace for long enough to run the cycle. The house doesn't even notice.
The upright freezer gets plugged in for a few hours each day to keep things frozen solidly. During that time we might turn off something else just to be sure of not overwhelming the generator. The little fridge in the basement usually just sits unpowered. If there is anything important in it, we move that to the fridge upstairs.
Lights are not even an issue now that we have LED light bulbs available for reasonable prices. We don't use the ceiling lights, choosing instead to put small-wattage LED bulbs into portable lamps that we plug directly into the generator via extension cords. Some of the bulbs we use only take 2 or 3 watts, which is inconsequential to a 4500 watt generator, yet provide enough light to get around without bumping into things in the dark.
So things aren't so bad during a power outage. The house stays warm. We have water and can use the bathrooms and take showers as normal. We lose no food due to spoilage. We can watch TV, use our computers, and get online. It's an inconvenience, but not really a hardship. The biggest inconvenience is that we can't use the stove or oven; only the microwave. In addition, in really hot weather the house will get uncomfortable because I'm sure that the little generator would be overwhelmed if we powered up the air conditioning compressor.
I bought this generator in 2003, the first year we lived in this house, just a week or two before "The Great Northeast Power Blackout of 2003". Anyone remember that? Anyway, it got us through that, and every smaller one since, and hasn't given me the slightest problem in the 14 years we've had it. I change the oil and filter now and then, and I have actually washed it a few times to get rid of the dirt and dust that covers it from being kept out in the pole barn. That's it. Last time I used it, it started on the first pull.
 
Jeff,

I'm responsible for several houses and a small office building, all of which are set up for generators of various kinds. Some automatic, some manual transfer. I tried the do-it-yourself approach, I came to the conclusion it's penny wise and pound foolish, not to mention dangerous. Talk to an electrician, I'm sure any reputable electrician in your area will have lots of generator hookup experience. Pretty sure that's the consensus of the suggested thread.

FWIW, my CT home is wired like what I think you are looking for, a manual switch on the main breaker panel with a plug on the side of the house for the generator to connect to. When the power goes out, start the generator and plug in, then flip the switch on the breaker panel to prevent backfeed to the street (the power guys get real testy finding hot wires on the street). Easy-Peasy. Be sure to run the generator for a few minutes every month to keep the gas from turning to varnish in the carb. If memory serves, the electrician here charged about $600 a couple of years ago for that hookup including the transfer switch and outdoor plug.

For generators, it's one of everything. No two are the same, a Kohler, a Robin Subaru, a Honda and a Chinese made whatever. The first three are champs, the Chinese one is tough to start but gets the job done. Just my opinion, but add up the load you think you need and go for the next biggest size generator. The smallest generator we have is a 7500, it runs a large house with an oil boiler and a well just fine, with refrigerators, TV's and lights on. Pretty sure the oven works too. If it didn't, my mother would be sure to let me know. [smile] Best of luck to you, and I hope you don't need the generator very often.
 
Hi Jeff,
I recommend Honda. They start all the time and are pretty quiet. If you have natural gas use that as your source of fuel. A gas generator can be converted to run on natural gas with a kit, very easy to convert. It will be a duel fuel unit. A 7500 watt unit will run just about everything including a well pump(3/4hp). Get a transfer switch installed. I run my electrical feed through a 220 welding plug in the garage. Just shut off the main power to the pole and turn on whatever breakers are needed. Look on craigslist, people buy em and use em once. Good luck. Remember HONDA, it's worth the extra money.

Greg E
 
Thanks for all the input. Sounds like maybe I'll be ok at the lower end of my 6500--10,000 range.

We'll definitely get a transfer switch installed.

Natural gas is not an option here, and since we cook electric, I don't have propane at the house. I'm not relishing the idea of running a generator on barbecue tanks, and am told there are performance issues with propane at winter temps I can expect.

As for Honda generators, I've heard that advice from multiple sources, but the price premium is huge. I can find a bunch of 6000-8000 watt generators in the $900-1500 range. Comparable Honda's are double or triple that. What am I getting for my extra money?
 
I have a Generac 7kw LP. I have a dedicated 320 gal LP tank for mine. If you have LP, and don't want a portable Gennie... That is what I would do.
 
Jeff,

I believe that part of the reason that Honda's are so much more expensive is because they are also so much quieter. Or at least some of the models are. I'm not sure if all Hondas are super quiet or just some particular models.
 
I have a 14Kw Generac on demand that is hooked up to two 200gal Propane tanks that fire the rest of the house too. We did a load test on the house by turning every single thing we own on to get a "worst case scenario". If it is emergency conditions (Sandy) I will run only the essentials (well pump, fridge, lights as needed) but if it's a BS problem like a car hit a pole and the power will be up in a few hours, I don't miss a beat with both AC's going etc etc. $6,000 seems to ring a bell for instillation, transfer switch, propane run etc etc....soup to nuts.
All that being said, living on the south shore of Long Island on the bay, I had the entire thing rebuilt due to it being totally rusted and seized due to salt (after 3 years)......
 
Dani said:
Jeff,

I believe that part of the reason that Honda's are so much more expensive is because they are also so much quieter. Or at least some of the models are. I'm not sure if all Hondas are super quiet or just some particular models.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. And I might pay more for quiet. I've been searching in vain for decibel ratings. Most of the generators I am looking at seem to be using engines in 350-450 cc range, so I'm expecting them to make a racket. The ones my neighbors have sure do.

Our recent storm was probably pretty close to a worst-case scenario. It was the largest number of outages in Maine in my lifetime--quite a bit worse than the 98 ice storm. Everyone in the state had power back within a week.

I'd care a lot more about noise is this was something I was going to use all the time at a camp or in an RV than for occasional emergency use.
 
Probably 15 years ago I bought a Troy-built, 6,000 surge watt generator powered by a B&S engine. It sits outside, covered by a tarp. It will go, and often does, months at a time without being started. It starts on the first pull every time. It cost around $800 back then. I had bought it for construction projects where there was no power.

When I moved to Bennington, I wired our house for it, with the appropriate breaker system that prevents feeding power back out to outside lines. The breaker system cost me as much as the generator! We can't run the whole house on it, but we can do the boiler, the hotwater heater, and the well pump...but not all at the same time. I did wire the refrigerators and various lites and outlets...lol, mainly in my cave and shop!

In my experience, Honda makes a heck of a generator. But I'll stay faithful to my Troy-Built, nonetheless.

Gary

P.S. My mom had a Generac whole house system installed after a storm took her power out for more than 10 days a bunch of years ago. It came on instantly in an outage and self-tested once a week. She had natural gas, so it ran on that, which was great because I couldn't see her dealing with fuel, especially in the middle of winter. She paid 6K for the system installed. But that was quite a few years ago, after Buffalo had a freak October snowstorm that knocked power out for a long time.
 
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Hi Jeff,

I have had good luck with Generac. I run the attached 7500w w/electric start, surge to 9200w. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434685_200434685

I run two pumps, my water and my septic and my entire house. I do have the breaker box wired for the 240 connector with the generator breaker. I also have a gas range and a Toyotomi on demand hot water heater as well so not an electric range. Microwaves and hair dryers also put quite a draw on them.

They are somewhat loud but most refer to it as the "generator hum" and it is much better than no power.

I was out 6 days in this most recent event.

I have had the occasion to deal with Generac on a problem issue and must say they were flawless and very timely in their response.

Good luck with your choice.
 
I too have thought about a generator on several occasions, and came close to buying one after the last extended outage. I live in an older neighborhood, all pole strung utilities, though the fiber-optic lines are being buried.

What happens if you undersize your generator? If you call for more power that it is capable of? Does it flip a breaker, or does it damage either the generator or the equipment drawing the power?

TIA,
 
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