question about a plywood BBSB

M

michael barnes

Active member
i have googled it and found quite a bit of info, and have searched on here, reading all i can find. but i still have some questions about it. i am not asking what a "true" BBSB is, but i am interested in all boats that fall under that name, whether they are "modified" or not.
what are a set of plans that are for a plywood design, rather than the original ceder? is the devlin broadbill and mallard examples of these, or are they completely different boats? are the plywood designs as seaworthy as the ceder boats?
please dont turn this into an argument about what a "true" bbsb is. thanks, mike.
 
Ironic you should ask this today.

See the above post by Mr. Mark Rongers.

In my humble opinion, the closest plywood rendition of the true Barnaget Bay Sneakbox, is the boat described in the late, great Zach Taylor's "Succesful Waterfowling" book. Although the lines of the hull aren't quite as smooth as a true BBSB, you'll find the top deck, length, width, look and general performance of the ZT Sneakbox closer to the original than any of the commercially produced plans.

The plans, as layed out in the book, are a little harder to follow, but certainly work, as I built one myself a few years ago.

Sneakbox1.jpg

Sneakbox2.jpg

Sneakbox3.jpg


I hope this helps!

Jon
 
BBSB "Close enough" for hunting can be built out of ply, just will be heavier than a lightly built cedar original.
John Gardner did a few stories on building with ply using it to get out planks and building on frames in the traditional style. His book is avail on amazon and is a good one with a plan for one of the Jersey boats.
You glass over the ply after your done planking the boat. Should keep the ocean out, as they say.
Classic Small Craft
 
Mike,

BBSB's don't lend themselves well to plywood. That is why most are cedar or molded fiberglass. It is just the nature of the compound curves that "are" a BBSB.

It may sound like "just" semantics, but the boats you are referencing are sneak boats and not Barnaget Bay style sneak boats. Some such as the Zach Box are about as close to a BBSB as can be reached with plywood and are a great choice for ease of building. Most modern designed sneak boats are planing hulls as well and work well with outboard motors.

Keep in mind that sneak boats are named for how they were/are hunted. Anchor upwind/current of the decoys and drift into rafted birds. The BBSB is just one of the more notable styles.

Good luck in your search for the right one.

Gene
 
Mike,

BBSB's don't lend themselves well to plywood. That is why most are cedar or molded fiberglass. It is just the nature of the compound curves that "are" a BBSB.

It may sound like "just" semantics, but the boats you are referencing are sneak boats and not Barnaget Bay style sneak boats. Some such as the Zach Box are about as close to a BBSB as can be reached with plywood and are a great choice for ease of building. Most modern designed sneak boats are planing hulls as well and work well with outboard motors.

Keep in mind that sneak boats are named for how they were/are hunted. Anchor upwind/current of the decoys and drift into rafted birds. The BBSB is just one of the more notable styles.

Good luck in your search for the right one.

Gene
Click to expand...

If we are splitting hairs the sneakbox in Zach Taylor's book is referred to as the Widgeon and was designed by Harry Megargee. The 'Zach Box' is a decked over runabout. It looks like a decked over aluminum hull in his book, although he has lines to construct it completely out of wood in his book. Probably, because aluminum welding was out of reach for most backyards.

Gardner's book describes building a bbsb out of plywood using planks that are 2"-4" wide. Basically carvel planking it with plywood instead of the traditional cedar. You would end up with a very satisfactory bbsb that way. Not quite as round as a cedar plank as the thin plywood can't be rounded as much as the thicker cedar. However, much rounder than a chined plywood sneakbox.

I have the Glen-L sneakbox plans. It looks like a very capable boat. I just haven't got around to building it, yet.
 
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Sorry if I came across a little punchy, that was not the intent. It was a long day yesterday.

I was just trying to convey that BBSB's are just one type of sneak boat and plywood in general lends itself better to the more contemporary sneak boats such as Devlin's. There is no reason you could not make a BBSB by planking it with strips of ply.

Best wishes,
Gene
 
Hi Jon,

Could you tell us a little more about your Zack Box? What materials did you use, how was it to build, how long did it take, etc? Also, have you run the boat with a motor on it and how did it do? Looks like a great rowing craft and it must hide very well.

Best,
Nate
 
Sorry if I came across a little punchy, that was not the intent. It was a long day yesterday.

I was just trying to convey that BBSB's are just one type of sneak boat and plywood in general lends itself better to the more contemporary sneak boats such as Devlin's. There is no reason you could not make a BBSB by planking it with strips of ply.

Best wishes,
Gene
Click to expand...

I hope I didnt seem to cheeky either. I tend to post a bit late at night myself.

Micheal, I think I know what you are looking for. A duck boat that isn't too hard to build and most importantly, not too expensive. The Glen-L may fit the bill. I will have to check the materials list, but I don't think it is nearly as epoxy heavy as a Devlin. I have the Scull Devlin plans that call out 4 gallons of epoxy, which seems like a lot for that size of craft. Glen-L's fullsize patterns also would make it easier rather than offsets and small blueprints.

I am not saying the Glen-L is the absolute best sneakbox, it is all a matter of opinion, but the plans may be easier for the first time builder.
 
There is a really beautifully built Glen-L boat in Bay City, MI for sale. The hull was built as a sailing hull, but the rig was never built. Very nice craftsmanship from the pictures.... was built in 1970, but looks like it was just finished! I thought long and hard about this boat, but decided on the Cedar Planked restoration project....I can send you contact ifo.... Boat on trailer was $1600 on CL, also have a ducktwin 3 hp in very nice shape for additional cost.

Also several on eBay right now 3 are around $1000. Dave

View attachment HPIM0861.JPGView attachment HPIM0872.JPG

View attachment HPIM0861.JPG
View attachment HPIM0872.JPG
 
The Devlin boats are described by Sam as modified "Garvey" boats, he does not call them BBSBs. Garvey working skiffs originated in the same NJ marshes as the BBSB, but started as powered boats and not as sailing rigs like the BBSB. So this would make his boats "completely different" boats due to their origins. If you compare the Devlin boats with BBSB boats you will see that BBSB designs have a pointed bow and that the Devlin boats have a flat or truncated bow. BBSB designs should also be able to be sailed if completed with the right rigging. If you want to sail a Devlin duck boat you will have to pay Sam to modify the design to fit in the rigging.

When you want to compare the Megaree designed Widgeon from Successful Waterfowling you could say that it is more like a BBSB than a Garvy, even with a plywood hull. This was the intent of the design and build - to match as close as possible the capibilities of the BBSB type of boats - but without having to know how to plank a hull frame set.

The plywood Devlin boats are very seaworthy. The Mallard and the Black Brant 2 are semi displacement hulls that push a lot of water when under power so they are not as "zippy" as the Black Brant 3 or the Bluebill. Their semi displacement hulls provide for more stability at the cost of speed. The lesser displacement hulls of the other designs allow for more speed but do not sacrifice too much stability in rough water. My BB3 has only been in 2 feet of wind driven chop before and it handled it fine even when setting sideways in the troughs.

The difference between boats with planked hulls and those with plywood hulls is pretty simple. It takes a special type of understanding to plank a boat hull in the spoon shape. You have to form a flat piece of wood into a complex shape to get it to fit over the frame. Then you have to fabricate its mirror image to go on the other side of the frame. Not everyone can do this. A plywood hulled boat can be put together by anyone that can read a ruler and operate a saw and a drill.

Both boats will get you safely into duck habitat. Both boats will fill you with a sense of accomplishment during and after building.

The seaworthiness of the plywood hulled boats is typically limited by the confidence of the operator, not the materials the boat is made out of.
 
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Ray described all of the attributes of the respective little boats perfectly.

Nate, Not to be snippy but, the Zachbox as described in his book is a larger craft, The ZT plywood Sneakbox is the model I posted pictures of. (Although I later built a modified Zachbox / duckboat hybrid using a factory aluminum hull, etc).

I've never had a motor on my rig. I usually row or tow it to where I'm going. I am seriously considering building another this summer however. I will then affix a pair of small outboards to them and have a go at it. I've had her in some pretty serious seas on our local reservoir. One of those times where I was rowing against the wind, moving 3 feet forward with each oar stroke, only to have the wind push me back 2 feet between strokes. I don't have a curtain or dodger on mine yet either, although I may install one on it this summer.

They are a LOT of fun to hunt out of. Very comfortable, warm and easy to hide. They hold a surprising amount of gear also.

As far as building it, I took about a year of spare time, although if I were to actually guess, it probably took about 100 hours. I did however build the first one without a band saw, used hand planes and I used the resorcinol glue as described in the book. If and when I build another, there are several different, (read)-easier and quicker new adhesives available today. Power nailers/staplers, adhesives, battery-operated drills and screw guns that I own today would probably cut the time in half.

I used all marine ply for the hull, scarfed the joints, Western Red Cedar for the sides, pine for all of the ribbing, and poplar for the transom, bow piece and misc. parts.

I hope this answers your questions. You can always post up more or pm me for more details.

Jon
 
You know, I don't think I've yet seen a Zackbox build out of plywood made along the lines of the plans in Zack's book. Has anybody else? In any case, it sure doesn't seem like there are many out there.

If that is so, does anybody have any idea why?

By the way, if anybody on here has photos of one I'd love to see it. I've always thought it is a nice design.
 
Because 12 and 14' Aluminum skiffs are plentiful and relatively cheap.
I built a modified Zackbox out of a cut down, old 12' Aluminum V bottom that I had bought used and cheap. Electrolysis finally ate out the rivets and the boat was scrapped, but to this day it was the best all around and practical Duck boat I ever owned, and I've had most of them.
 
I never realized there were full-size plans available for that boat. Do you happen to know where they can be obtained.

In any case, maybe it would be interesting to try constructing a scale model of it out of carboard or balsa wood, and seeing if that helps. I constructed a couple of cardboard models of my boat before constructing it full-size in wood, and it was tremendously helpful.

Based on what George S noted above, and on the fact that I've still yet to see one of these boats, I'm wondering if maybe there isn't a single wooden one in use in the whole country right now.
 
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I am getting really confused.

From the book the "Zack Box" is a normal old skiff that you put a plywood deck and box on top of to make it easier to conseal with grass and what not. There are probably quite a few guys out there that have decked over a skiff and posted photos someplace. The use of a pop up blind on a skiff is more practical these days than it was back in the 1960's when the book was written.

A Wigeon is the boat shown being built further up this thread and is the model (mold) for the MLB Zack Taylor Wigeon in fiberglass. This is the boat that has the plans in the book that cover two pages.

There are several Wigeons that have photos posted of them on various websites, including this one. I think two posters on here over the years have posted build photos. One is above.
 
Ray,

I agree that it is confusing, but in Zack's book "Customizing Small Boats" there are plans labeled "THE ZACKBOX". In the lower righthand corner of one of the pages of the plans that appear to be for that Zackbox it looks like it states: -DUCK HUNTING BOAT.- -Des. by Zack Taylor & E. Schock.- Dr. By E. Schock- - L.O.A. 12'-9 3/4 B. 5'-3". I've read the building instructions in that book, and those instructions appear to describ how to build this design out of wood (though I think it also appears that it can be constructed on an aluminum hull as well).

I have never seen a post or picture on this website of one of these constructed out of wood. It it puzzling.
 
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I went and looked at the Successful Waterfowling book and for the first time read through the rest of the boat stuff. It has the off sets for the zackbox as well, but the text talks about a metal boat with a deck.

With lots of wooden skiffs around you probably will not see one of these boats made. there are easier ways to build boats than a full frame set covered in sheet material. Don't tell Dave Clark I said that.
 
I never realized there were full-size plans available for that boat. Do you happen to know where they can be obtained.

In any case, maybe it would be interesting to try constructing a scale model of it out of carboard or balsa wood, and seeing if that helps. I constructed a couple of cardboard models of my boat before constructing it full-size in wood, and it was tremendously helpful.

Based on what George S noted above, and on the fact that I've still yet to see one of these boats, I'm wondering if maybe there isn't a single wooden one in use in the whole country right now.
Click to expand...

I meant there are not fullsize plans available. That is why you do not see them as much.
 
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