Recomendations for Hunting Dog

R

Rob M

Member
Well I feel like I am a cheating spouse inquiring about where to find a new wife being that Rush only passed away 8 days ago, but my wife made a good point to me the other day. "you're super critical about your dogs and its going to take forever for you to find one"

Since I have been competing with dogs for over a decade, I am a bit crazy about the bloodlines I try and stay with, the breeding's and of course a relationship with a breeder. I've waited years for some of my previous dogs and well my wife feels that I will be ready to embrace another dog sometime in the spring or early summer that I at least better start looking and see what breeding's are coming up and who I may want a dog from.

I never have had a hunting dog, all my previous dogs were working dogs that I competed in conformation, weight pull and some agility/lure coursing, so recommendations for breeders would be appreciated.

I know I am going to take tons of heat for this, but I am not really a fan of labs. Perhaps it is because I had a lab growing up and well to put it simply it left a lot to be desired. I'm sure he did not come from a reputable breeder, I'm sure my mother didn't look at pedigrees etc. Outside of that lab, I've been around maybe 2 other labs in my life, one was a very old hunting dog and the other was a poorly trained pet. Same token, I have always had short haired dogs because with the amount of time the dogs spend in my truck, on the couch and in my bed I've never wanted to deal with hair. Obviously a problem with a duck dog.

I am a huge fan of GSPs and Vizsla's, but obviously short haired, may or may not be the best retrievers for ducks. Here in NJ and NY, if I'm hunting waterfowl its cold out (except this year) and well if the dog is cold I don't want him out hunting. Most of the guys I know with short haired dogs will not bring them in the boat under 30*, but I also know of guys not wanting their labs in the water when its under 30*. So I guess what is really the cut off in temperature for a lab vs. a short haired dog? Would I have any luck with a GSP or a Vizsla? I know that there are some other options out there but I am not really a fan of Chessies, Labrador retrievers, Boykins, or poodles either.

If I were to go the lab route, who would you recommend for a breeder that has proven field dogs. Im not sure if I want to go an English or American style either. I love the look of the big blocky labs, but I'm also not looking for an 80-90lb dog. Something in the 60lbs range would be ideal.

As far as training goes, Ive always told myself if I were to get a hunting dog I would likely ship it off to a trainer and have them put some solid time in with the dog before I finish him. However, I also know my previous dogs, the ones I worked with the most and trained the most as puppies were the ones who were my best companion dogs where they literally were an extension of me. The ones I didn't train a lot or work until an older age, sure they responded to me but it was for a reward and that reward usually came in the form of a treat, not just the joy of making dad proud. So that is a concern I have to is that if I want a dog that knows my every move, would it do more harm then good to send to a trainer at an early age? Interested to hear all your opinions and experiences here.

End of the day, I know I am not ready at this point to take on a dog, not sure if I ever will be, but I at least wanted to start doing the research now.
 
you are getting a new dog, not replacing Rush - that isn't possible

My setter passed away a couple days before Christmas, I was crushed, said a few times that he was the last in a line of setters ( i do have Macallan - a Golden Retriever ) My incredible wife kept my spirits up, we concentrated on the holidays and a house construction project. Then last week, out of the blue, I got an email from a guy I know, he has a new litter on the ground, same bloodline of my first setter many years ago. So we drove down to see the puppies Sunday and left with a big smile, and a receipt for a deposit on the NEXT setter in my life. Yesterday. I picked up the ashes of the last one- he can't be replaced - the hole is still in my heart - but there is room for another


as far as breed - if you belong to a gun club, ask around see who has what and ask about the dog - what do they like, what are the draw backs - can you see it work- there are a lot of choices - and a lot of breeds will do the work- you need to find the one that works for you
 
I would go and watch some dogs work at a hunt test. Breed of your choice. You can talk to the handlers and get a better idea of what your looking for in a hunting dog.
 
Mary Howley Candelwood Kennel, you won't be disappointed. But she is a lab breeder. I have a 20moth old that lacks one pass to be a Master Hunter. She would be titled if I had not taken her to Canada for 6 weeks and a week in Mississippi. I would also recommend John Kello at Westwind Retrievers in Windsor Va.
 
As you can see by my Avatar I was into labs for many years. At one time I had three titled dogs in the house / kennel. As my last lab was nearing retirement I got interested in Boykin Spaniels after seeing a couple do well at a couple hunt tests I was working.
After looking at several breeders I picked up a male Boykin which just turned five years old. I also got involved with the Boykin Spaniel Groups and am a regular participate / judge at the Upper Midwest events.
This is what I was looking for when I decided to go with a Boykin
Smaller dog - better in small boats - tired of having a 'pony' size dog in house
Upland and Waterfowl capable - This dogs grandmother 'Bessie" absolutely crushed the pheasant tournaments here in the Midwest
Very biddable dog with a personality - excellent companion dogs
My dog had a started title at 7 months and Hunting Retriever title at 2 years. Upland Hunter in 4 straight events.
These dogs excellent on Upland game and are very capable waterfowl dogs. Last time out we dig a 100+ yard blind retrieve
Cons
They don't train like a lab - less pressure and more reps
Typically difficult to get a Master Pass
Make sure to get all the health clearances from the breeder

I would suggest following some of the Boykin Facebook sites and attend a spring event near you

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I love my lab but if I could do over again, I?d go with a smaller breed. An AWS or Boykin.
 
Don't overlook the pudelpointer. Owned Labs exclusively for many years. When the last one passed my focus was on a pointer, had never owned one or hunted over one but that was what i wanted. Watched a few retrieve on water and land was impressed by their eagerness,friendliness and desire to please.
A year later we purchased A liver colored pup and named him Rufus. He lives on a farm with plenty of room to run. At about 8 weeks he would point wild turkey feathers that we came across on our walks.
I bought some books and trained him at home. His first season he pointed and retrieved just shy of 100 pheasants and quail. He is my constant companion be it in the garden,the shop or the house. He loves people and is as close to my wife as he is me.
The one thing i haven't been able to do is get him into ducks,maybe next year.
Oh ,i almost forgot being a tracking dog he has aided in the recovery of two deer.
I don't know what you are looking for in a dog but the PP is a good "all around" dog.
 
patrick mccarthy said:
Rob
We had to put our 18 year old chessie down recently
I?ve been researching versatile breeds wire hair pointing Griffon(WPG) or pudelpointer (PP) both may take some time to get. They should handle the cold better than a short hair.
For cold, a chessie
For a lab look look here http://www.peakperformancetraining.info/LITTERS.html
Solid dogs and they also train.
Pat
Click to expand...

One of my hunting buddies is on this third wire haired Griffon. FANTASTIC dog for upland work on partridge and woodcock. Great dog for early season puddle ducks. Definitely not a dog for late season ducks on the coast of Maine. They shiver even before they get wet on cold days. Running hard in the snow for late season partridge is not a problem, but sitting in a boat or duck blind is.

Great dog, but would not be my choice if ducks were the primary quarry.
 
Rob,

I'll shoot you a PM for someone to talk to. He is a lab guy but he is also a trainer and he could probably better answer some of your questions regarding training and companionship.

As far as dogs.....that's a tough one. I would stay away from Vizlas if you want to do more than upland work with them. I have heard they can be good upland dogs but never heard much positive about them as waterfowl dogs. GSPs CAN be good duck dogs from what I hear, though my experience with GSPs as duck dogs has not been positive. Though admittedly I know that is based a lot on the trainer more than the dog...probably the same could be said for the labs you have been around. But if you want to look at dogs like GSPs you will want to check out breeders who participate in trials run by the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA). Those would be proven dogs for both upland and waterfowl work.

You say you prefer shorthaired dogs, so you may not be interested in Tollers but the Nova Scotia Tolling Retriever is a great duck dog, though long haired. They're "smaller" dogs (males shouldn't be more than about 55lbs). Down here in FL, there seems to be a good number of them used in Agility courses. They are used successfully for upland work as well as obviously waterfowl work, but they certainly are long haired.

The cold water thing and short haired dogs.....obviously you won't be able to just let a shorthaired dog do a retrieve and not get dried off like Tollers and Labs and Chessies can handle. I don't hunt really cold water/weather so I really don't have much experience but you may be able to hunt cold weather with a short haired dog if you took extra care: maybe a hunting vest, dry the dog off as soon as they get out of the water, provide them a place to sit that is insulated (not sitting in a puddle of water on an aluminum floor), maybe have a heater depending on the blind you hunt, limit their retrieving (don't send them out on several hundred yard retrieves in the water). The NAVHDA breeders might have better answers to that question than most people on this site.

For lab breeders, if you are inclined to go that route, I have gotten recommendations on this site for breeders so you could search my posts to see what other people have suggested.

There are three kennels that I basically narrowed down my search to, based on talking with the breeders and recommendations from other people (my physical preferences of a dog are very similar to yours):
Tallgrass Kennels in Arkansas
Double TT British Kennels in Kansas
Dog Pond Kennels in Georgia (this one partly because of location....they are VERY close to me and have a lot of great things to be said by people that have owned dogs from them, though admittedly the dogs aren't quite as blocky as the dogs from Tallgrass and Double TT)

For training hunting dogs, labs are pretty easy to train. I have found the pointing dogs more difficult if you don't have access to birds. Labs can mostly be trained anywhere but with pointing dogs, the more birds they have access to, the better a bird dog they will be. My setter spent two months with a trainer being introduced to birds, getting experience running, learning to hunt and pointing. I would like to send her back for another month or so of training with the trainer to help steady her up this spring. But because she and I work together for obedience type stuff, taking her out hunting and running and just having a good time, I take her with me on quick errands, we go for walks, and lots of other little things we do together, her time with a trainer doesn't affect how much she wants to please me.

I think probably it's more the dog and the dog's personality and then how much time you spend with the dog rather than the dog being sent off to summer camp that will determine how much of an extension of you the dog will be.
 
If you like the versatile breeds the best to look at for cold weather retrieving are the Pudelpointer, German Wirehaired Pointer/Deutsche Drahthaar and Bohemian Wirehaired Pointing Griffon.

My GWP has a coat like a shorthair and I wouldn't count on him to break ice in sub 30f temps too often. The better coated dogs can take a lot more. Toughness is not an issue for any of the breeds I mentioned but sometimes they need to be protected from themselves. They don't always have the body mass of a lab or chessie that helps handle the cold.

As far as desire to retrieve you won't find dogs with more drive to get the bird in their mouth. I often say my GWP goes after a retrieve like the bird owes him money.

If you do want a breed like that I'd look for a local NAVHDA or VDD GNA group. If you think you are picky about bloodlines and proper breeding you will feel right at home with the VDD crowd.

These breeds do have a reputation for hunting whatever they come along...fur, feather and probably fish if they could figure out how to. Mine was broken off of fur rather easily. He pretty much just hunts what I want him to and that's just birds.

Good luck with your puppy search.
Tim
 
Rob,

Labs are very versatile, and of course make great waterfowl retrievers and great pets. They are generally easy to train, but like people, they are all different. That is why my last three have been "started" dogs.

We have been through training a puppy from scratch several times, and although you will most likely do your homework and pick the best bred pup you can afford, it's still a crap shoot when you reach in a pick one. With a 1-2 year old pup, you have a much better chance of getting the personality, ability, size etc that you want. And, assuming you purchase it from the right place, it will already have been trained to a certain level. Obedience, force fetched, introduced to birds and guns etc. At that point, if you desire a completely trained companion, you, or a pro will need to continue the training process.

Regarding the bonding of your pet and starting with a puppy, or an older dog; our three "started" dogs all lived in the house with us and adapted to our way of life quickly. They were all affectionate, wonderful pets, and great hunting companions.

Also, you must be realistic with your expectations. Do you want a pet that will retrieve your duck once in a while utilizing his natural ability, or do you want a completely trained animal that is obedient, steady, retrieves to hand and handles? The second option involves many months of diligent training and knowledge(or boatloads of $ for professional training).

If you choose to buy a well bred puppy and have it professionally trained, or buy a nice started dog and continue training, either prospect is not inexpensive.

The caveat in a started dog is that it can be a long search for the right dog and you have to be ready to act once you find one.

Either way, good luck with your quest. A new pup, or young dog is a large, but wonderful commitment.

Matt
 
Rob,

Also, if you have never done it, you may want to spend a day at and AKC hunt test or an AKC field trial to observe what a well trained retriever is capable of. I know that the HRC also sponsors hunt-styale retriever trials.Hanging around such an event and talking with folks would be well worth your time I think. At a hunt test, the Master stake will give you a feel for the most advanced dog's abilities. If you really want to be wowed, attend and AKC amateur, or open stake.

Good luck.

Matt
 
You didn't say which dog venue you have been competing in but if you have been invested for a decade you are probably WAY ahead of the average dog buyer. When I decided to get back into dogs once my daughter left for college I looked at what my goals were.

I was sick of friends dogs that broke at the click of the safety and lacked basic obedience - so this framed the initial goals
___________
Medium sized lab in yellow
Obedience trained
Steady
Able to do double marks
Able to do simple blinds.
____________
Pick a good Local breeder
Join Local retriever club
Get assistance from a pro if you feel it is needed
____________

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I owned a lab and now have a chessie who is 13 he is couch potato now body won?t let him get it done. Three years ago Santa brought my daughter a Boykin puppy. Her 1st 2 seasons hunting with my chessie where ok this year she is the only dog in the blind this lil dog is amazing she does everything i ask. All these breeds of hunting dogs mention on this thread are fun to watch.
 
Just my two cents. I've owned a Boykin spaniel for 12 years and he was a great hunting dog. He retrieved everything fine except for giant geese but he would sit on them and wait for me to come to him. After he passed away I got a pudelpointer which was recommended by Bill Clark. He is a great dog but I suggest you have a lot of land, he is full out, non-stop exercise. He retrieves great and he's a year-and-a-half-old. His drive to hunt is spectacular and his nose is great. Although I loved my Boykin Spaniel and it's hard to pick I'd go with the Pudelpointer, a crippled goose at 400yds doesn't stand a chance with a pudlepointer, they are fast.View attachment 20161108_082717-2-1.jpgView attachment 20200109_174720.jpg
 
Sorry it?s taken me a bit of time to reply to all of these posts as the last few weeks have just been up and down with the thoughts of a dog.

First I would like to thank all of you for giving me your thoughts and input from your personal experiences.

I spent some time talking to my wife today about the wants of a dog for me. The crap thing is I truly want another APBT or AmStaff and hopefully someday will but every dog I get in that breed will always be compared to Rush so maybe that?s not my best move at the moment. I do know for years I?ve said I want a working dog, a dog that I can walk the woods scouting, can deer hunt with me, can run with me daily, she?d hunt, enjoy the boat rides in the spring and summer scouting, hang out in the boat with me when I?m hjntimb and well retrieve some birds for me during the season. Those are my basic desires.

Going further, I want a dog that?s loud when it needs to and quiet when it needs to be. As in I for the love of me cannot stand whinning and jittery dogs. My show dogs were quiet unless someone knocked on the door or they were nails deep in a weight pull and that?s how I liked it. Time in the woods or the blind for me is about nature and the nostalgia of hunting. It?s my peace as I?m sure many of you. As pumped as I get in the truck ride to the ramp when it?s go time, I?m quiet and still enjoying nature. A dog that whining and pacing is not going to work for me. I also know that if I?m going to train a dog myself, I will join a retriever club and once I?m in a retriever club I know I?ll want to train for the hard retrieves and probably venture to put a few titles on a dog. So does that leave me with a caffeine loaded trails dog needing constant stimulation? Or is the whining simply a matter of training?

I?ll be honest I?m not a huge fan of Labs, not chessies not the wire haired breeds. A GSP would fit great in my home but if I?m going with a hunting breed it needs to be a dog I can hunt the entire season with, not just in fair weather days or on warm seasons like we have had this year.

I somewhat like the look of chessies over labs as simply I feel less people have chessies. But I?ve also seen some very hot tempered cheessies and understand they can be a bit harder to handle. This intrigues me because I would like a dog that I have to earn the trust for the dog to work. But chessies seem to shed a heck of a lot more than labs.

If I were to go the lab route I would either want to go In the fox red color or silver, simply as I feel these are different.

I know it?s still only been 3 weeks now since Rush has been gone but the house is quiet and the need to get a dog is growing. I want to get back into working and training and moving forward
 
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