Rocks & Fiberglass Don't Mix

Ben M

Ben M

Active member
. . . is what a friend of mine told me when I excitedly shared my plans for building my own duck boat. And, since this is my first build and I'd rather NOT be a fool who turns a deaf ear to any advice I don't like, I want to explore the possibility that my build just might not be a good idea. After all, my trusty old canoe was officially retired this weekend after giving up a couple of patches and having a new hole punched in her gut in the pre-dawn dark on the way in. There's a shadow in my mind that knows he's right: fiberglass and rocks don't mix.

And I'm planning on building a glass over wood boat to hunt the same river that laid the old canoe in the big river in the sky. I limped her the 1.5 miles downstream, walking most of the way, dragging over riffles, paddling the deep stretches to the next sandbar where I emptied my gear to dump water out of the doomed little boat. Sad, really.

So . . . if you knew that most of your hunting would be on rocky rivers with a near 100% chance of impact with and/or dragging over rocks and riffles every trip, would you build a glass over wood boat? I've been advised not to.

Now, I know that NO boat, no matter what it's built of, will put up with a lot of this abuse. I've been told that I should just buy a plastic canoe or an aluminum jon boat, neither of which will give me the kind of versatility and concealability of a sneakbox. So, should I build one knowing it will have a shorter life and plan on re-glassing gouges and dings every year until it gives up the ghost? Or give up the idea of a sneakbox on a rocky river altogether? Or buy a factory boat that won't last very long under this kind of punishment either? Or maybe buy an aluminum sneakbox? (That just sounds COLD to me!!!)

Thoughts and opinions appreciated . . .
 
I'm building a new boat right now and aluminum was the only option for me, I love my TDB and plan on keeping it for certian hunts but the tank of a boat I'm building witht he help of a retired Kodiak Island custom boat builder will most likely take anything our country can dish out.

Fred
 
If I lived in a barrier beach area (Long Island or the Cape) aluminum would not be as important. I need a boat that can handle being beached on an outgoing tide & dragged over a rocky shore, and/or banging into something in the early AM.

I had to use my fiberglas dory this winter & I don't like having to fuss with equipment.
 
If money were not an object, or I had the talent to build one...I'd have an aluminum sneakbox in a second.

With that said, I built a Zach Taylor type Widgeon for my sneakbox and I run a Lund Alsakan for everything else.

Good luck with your quest, I've yet to find any boat that likes the taste of granite first thing in the morning...glass or aluminum.
 
Buy a mapping GPS and most have little icons, like a skull and crossbones, to mark hazard locations on a nice day during daylight, so that you can avoid such things in the dark.
 
I had a glass over strip plank cedar double pointy ender for a long time and every time I hit a rock or pointy log the glass would flex and crack the strip planking. after that water would enter the void and the boat would have to be stripped and reworked every year or two.

so I would vote against a glass over wood boat for rocks and impact strength.
 
I have split an aluminum canoe on rock. Just a thought... would any of the builders see an advantage to a kevlar wrap instead of glass?
 
Ben, I am no expert here... I am using my refurbished sneakbox for the first season. The hull on mine is 1/2" white cedar carvel planked on bent oak stations. I stripped her down to bare wood, screwed all planks down with SS screws then re-set the nails. I then used thickened epoxy as fairing, and filled all the holes and cracks between the planks. Covered this with 2 layers of 6 oz cloth in epoxy, followed by 5 overcoats of epoxy. I installed IPE ice runners the length of the hull, and topped the runners with 1/2" hard plastic rubrail. Just finished up the season on Saturday, breaking ice multiple days with the hull, and left her high and dry a couple times, drug her off the gravel.

The hull has no marks on her. Some paint has worn off the plastic rubrail, and the paint has worn off the 3M 5200 that was used to seal the plastic rubrail.

My point is with an adequate structure behind it, the wood and epoxy will handle some impact. If the wood/hull would flex due to impact, then the epoxy might fail?

I would not knowingly run a rock strewn river with my sneakbox... I hate dragging a plastic canoe in the Shenandoah River! But I think a stiff wooden boat is different than a lightweight canoe.

Dave
 
If you still wanted to go with the design of a sneak box you could always beef up the areas which will have a lot of contact with rocks...One thing you can modify in the design plans is to buy and install actual kevlar instead of fiberglass matting when laying the bottom...The caveat is only do this on the bottom while laying everything else in at least a 6 oz matting with 4 to 6 oz, 4" to 6" fiberglass overlapped seams...Another option is to install runners made of delrin (acetal)to the bottom of the boat at critical contact/impact points with the capability of replacement by design...Now price does increase, but by keeping it minimal to key contact/impact points will give you better longitivity...

The reality of this is that any material you use within weight requirements that you are willing to hunt with, you don't want to drag a steel barge, will show wear and tear in the type of environment you are hunting...A boat designed and built to those conditions is at best going to give you the greatest satisfaction through the hunt giving that you built it yourself...I know it would for me...

This does not limit itself to the "Oh, SHIX" moment we all run into that we all have by not being "perfect" and having all the answers in foretelling life's events for each hunting situation...

I dragged, floated, 18 hand carved decoys, sweated, slapped mosquitos, dropped my gun in the gumbo, scared out of mind of gators, and those big
white mouths with fangs to find honey holes in Northern Louisana bayous and green trees 39 days this past season...I would have given anything to have even built a paper mache pirogue...The key was I never took the time to build one...

My opinion was stated...My best advise...Just do it!..Be safe and enjoy every minute of it!..Talk with Mr. Clark about the ends and outs of building...And if you find out it worked or it didn't worked you still accomplished something...Live and learn my friend...

Good Building and Hunting,

Kristan
 
I too hunt a rocky river where I know I'll be bumping off rocks. Aluminum is my material of choice. A rock hopper prop guard and jack plate help on the 14-ft V-hull. When John Kuhn started selling aluminum (1/8" thick hull) sneak boxes I knew I needed one. As far as being cold, shes grassed up outside and is carpeted on the inside, with not much aluminum left exposed to be cold. I am contemplating adding wood strips to the inside of the coaming for comfort when sitting on it, 1/8" on edge is kind of sharp.

Kevlar can and is used to protect the wood hulls. Tod O. did his and it certainly seems to help. He should be chiming in as his experience on the rocky coast is very applicable.

Scott
 
I spend a lot of time in a rocky stream that eats fiberglass canoes. I have a plastic Old Town canoe, a couple Plastic Old Town K140 Kayaks, and a plastic Marsh Rat. They bounce off the rocks. I use these boats to fish the river in the summer and float it occasionally in hunting season. The Marsh Rat is the most stable, followed by the kayaks and then the canoe. Get plastic for the rocks. My Devlin Broadbill had to be repaired after running into a log in the water. I now use a Go Devil welded aluminum boat on the river full of log jams and root wads.
 
Ben,
I'm partial to aluminum. But it is loud and cold. You would probably want to line your cockpit with some type of deck mat if you plan to sit on the deck. I have a kevlar sneakbox too and that's been very durable. Although nothing is invisible.

- Neil

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. . . is what a friend of mine told me when I excitedly shared my plans for building my own duck boat. And, since this is my first build and I'd rather NOT be a fool who turns a deaf ear to any advice I don't like, I want to explore the possibility that my build just might not be a good idea. After all, my trusty old canoe was officially retired this weekend after giving up a couple of patches and having a new hole punched in her gut in the pre-dawn dark on the way in. There's a shadow in my mind that knows he's right: fiberglass and rocks don't mix.

And I'm planning on building a glass over wood boat to hunt the same river that laid the old canoe in the big river in the sky. I limped her the 1.5 miles downstream, walking most of the way, dragging over riffles, paddling the deep stretches to the next sandbar where I emptied my gear to dump water out of the doomed little boat. Sad, really.

So . . . if you knew that most of your hunting would be on rocky rivers with a near 100% chance of impact with and/or dragging over rocks and riffles every trip, would you build a glass over wood boat? I've been advised not to.

Now, I know that NO boat, no matter what it's built of, will put up with a lot of this abuse. I've been told that I should just buy a plastic canoe or an aluminum jon boat, neither of which will give me the kind of versatility and concealability of a sneakbox. So, should I build one knowing it will have a shorter life and plan on re-glassing gouges and dings every year until it gives up the ghost? Or give up the idea of a sneakbox on a rocky river altogether? Or buy a factory boat that won't last very long under this kind of punishment either? Or maybe buy an aluminum sneakbox? (That just sounds COLD to me!!!)

Thoughts and opinions appreciated . . .
Click to expand...


If you can ruin a plastic canoe, than I think glass over wood is a poor choice. There are better materials for dealing with rocks. Punishment and glass over wood don't work well together from what I've seen.
 
Rocks don't go good with fiberglass OR wood. I would opt for aluminum...and if you are punching holes in aluminum, maybe its time to think about what you're doing. LOL!

I don't dare run my sneakbox on the river where it is loaded with rocks. We use an aluminum flat bottom john boat for that, and unless you hit a rock doing 25 knots, it doesn't damage the aluminum.
 
. . . is what a friend of mine told me when I excitedly shared my plans for building my own duck boat. And, since this is my first build and I'd rather NOT be a fool who turns a deaf ear to any advice I don't like, I want to explore the possibility that my build just might not be a good idea. After all, my trusty old canoe was officially retired this weekend after giving up a couple of patches and having a new hole punched in her gut in the pre-dawn dark on the way in. There's a shadow in my mind that knows he's right: fiberglass and rocks don't mix.

And I'm planning on building a glass over wood boat to hunt the same river that laid the old canoe in the big river in the sky. I limped her the 1.5 miles downstream, walking most of the way, dragging over riffles, paddling the deep stretches to the next sandbar where I emptied my gear to dump water out of the doomed little boat. Sad, really.

So . . . if you knew that most of your hunting would be on rocky rivers with a near 100% chance of impact with and/or dragging over rocks and riffles every trip, would you build a glass over wood boat? I've been advised not to.

Now, I know that NO boat, no matter what it's built of, will put up with a lot of this abuse. I've been told that I should just buy a plastic canoe or an aluminum jon boat, neither of which will give me the kind of versatility and concealability of a sneakbox. So, should I build one knowing it will have a shorter life and plan on re-glassing gouges and dings every year until it gives up the ghost? Or give up the idea of a sneakbox on a rocky river altogether? Or buy a factory boat that won't last very long under this kind of punishment either? Or maybe buy an aluminum sneakbox? (That just sounds COLD to me!!!)

Thoughts and opinions appreciated . . .
Click to expand...


If you can ruin a plastic canoe, than I think glass over wood is a poor choice. There are better materials for dealing with rocks. Punishment and glass over wood don't work well together from what I've seen.
Click to expand...

Don't know that it matters much in formulating your advice, but the canoe that gave up the ghost was fiberglass, not plastic . . . and a very old fiberglass canoe at that. Its previous owner claims it was originally ordered from a Sears Roebuck Catalog, and I'm not sure how many decades it has been since fiberglass canoes could be ordered from that company! But rocky rivers are apparently even more brutal in their treatment of boats than I had originally thought . . .
 
You certainly can run rocky rivers successfully in fragile boats. I hunt lots of places where I worry about my aluminum or glass over wood hull. In many of those spots, the exact same river channel was successfully navigated by wooden boats under sail into the first half of the 20th century.

It's a matter of how well you know the river, how well you can control the boat, and how you pick your times and spots.

One spot I hunt requires a run through a set of 3 "reversing falls" where, depending on the tide, you can be going with or against the equivalent of Class 2 rapids. It's amazing to think of a full sized ship going down the same channel from the shipyards that used to surround the bay, but of course they only did it on the peak of a spring tide.
 
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