Saying hello and looking for some armchair boatbuilding opinions

Caroline Casals said:
Phil and Tod - Thank you! Great thoughts... yeah the great sand beaches of Maine are... well they're tiny. Teeny tiny little dots. With lots of cold, pale people on them. So rocks and 'winkles and all sorts of abuse are definitely likely. Your description of the fix puts me at ease. I think some runners might be just the ticket too. That and a bit of dutiful maintenance and care when picking a spot to pull the boat up should let me enjoy our shores without too much anxiety. Growing up we used to beach our inflatable dinghy regularly and we never popped her so there's at least a sliver of hope there.

Drawings are pastels... half points? :p

Tod I will definitely look into Renn Tolman's book (A skiff for all seasons?). Reading never hurt a project :)

Paul - now see that would be the practical solution. Can't have none of that! Truth be told, there's a boat getting built this winter in my shop. I only have to chose what it looks like. As for ability, everyone who's ever built a boat started off not having built one. I'm not worried at all about the prospect of building a stitch and glue, but the old timers will chuckle and remind me it's not real boat building. I'm learning to be wary of that chuckle...

Cheers,
Caroline
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Pastels are negative as would be watercolors or some sort of actual drafting pencil.

One thing to think of and this is what I would do were I to (re)build my ultimate new england beat around skiff would be to use one of the synthetic structural panel products (like coosa board) for the bottom 2 hull panels what will see wear. It does not absorb water and has the strength of wood, so if you have a breach from the beach, no biggle. Adds cost, but no all that much.
 
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Phil - missed your reply when posting mine.

All good points! Durned useful breakdown of some real costs too. I must say it's always a bit shocking to me how expensive a lot of glass boats are, and how cheap a lot of wood ones are. I suppose it's from people like me wanting to build em a bit more than common sense would dictate?

Also thanks for the book recommendation, I'm loving the reading list coming out of this thread!

Pastels are negative
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Doh! Erm... what if they're really ugly drawings. With stick figures. Really ugly stick figures.

Tod now that's a feature I think ought to be in the build and extremely important detail for purchasing actually. I'd waffled on whether to get the precut kit for simplicity's sake or just the plan for the 'full experience'. Bottom panels in something other than stock ply is the kind of thing that puts me squarely in the plans-only camp. I'd hate to throw away fancy pre-cut marine ply.

Hmmm, wonder if you could scarf it? bottom two panels and then the forward bits of the next two up would be extra tough. Guess it depends on how much area the panels cover in a given design.
 
Tod,

Would you scarf that like you would plywood? Does thickened epoxy bond to it like wood? Need idea and lighter... about $850 more to do 4 sheet (the bottom of the boat)? but if rot is a concern, it is an alternative....
 
R
Caroline Casals said:
Phil - missed your reply when posting mine.

All good points! Durned useful breakdown of some real costs too. I must say it's always a bit shocking to me how expensive a lot of glass boats are, and how cheap a lot of wood ones are. I suppose it's from people like me wanting to build em a bit more than common sense would dictate?

Also thanks for the book recommendation, I'm loving the reading list coming out of this thread!

Pastels are negative
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Doh! Erm... what if they're really ugly drawings. With stick figures. Really ugly stick figures.

Tod now that's a feature I think ought to be in the build and extremely important detail for purchasing actually. I'd waffled on whether to get the precut kit for simplicity's sake or just the plan for the 'full experience'. Bottom panels in something other than stock ply is the kind of thing that puts me squarely in the plans-only camp. I'd hate to throw away fancy pre-cut marine ply.

Hmmm, wonder if you could scarf it? bottom two panels and then the forward bits of the next two up would be extra tough. Guess it depends on how much area the panels cover in a given design.
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Just cut the panels yourself, it isn't that much work and saying you built a boat from 10-15 sheets of plywood is way better than building from a kit. Easy, you need a ruler, some nails and a piece of trim to lay it out and a saw to cut. That is one of the easiest parts (the parts people see as scary end up no big deal). You aren't going to screw up anything, it doesn't happen.

I'd think the coosa can be scarfed, I'd call them though (I have called them, they were very responsive).
 
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Phil Nowack said:
Tod,

Would you scarf that like you would plywood? Does thickened epoxy bond to it like wood? Need idea and lighter... about $850 more to do 4 sheet (the bottom of the boat)? but if rot is a concern, it is an alternative....
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The stuff is made to bond like wood, no issue there. I'd think a scarf would be fine, but I'd check. If the price is 850 more, then I'm way off - that is a lot more than I remembered (thought). Just an idea i'd had, but probably not at that price.
 
1/2" 4x8 was $296 each... vs $89 for 12mm Hydrotech.

I also agree with Tod, get the book, read and reference it.. it is not hard to layout and cut your own panels.
 
I'll add one thought, which is that there really is no "all-around" boat, which is why the answer to the question "How many boats do you really need?" is always "One more."

Five people in a boat is way too many to duck hunt, and any boat that will hold all five will be awfully hard to hide with the 1 or 2 partners you might want to hunt.

If your focus is more on the island hopping, pulling a few rec. lobster traps, getting the family out for a boat ride, and striper fishing, you might want to look at something like a Simmons Sea Skiff (if you are set on wood). It would not be my choice of duck hunting craft, but I know several first time boat builders who built them and like them for doing just that in sheltered waters on the Kennebec River and sheltered parts of Casco Bay. It would also not be my choice for some place more open to the open ocean like the areas Troy hunts.

I am not a builder--reglassing an old MMB gunning float was about the peak of my craftiness, but I know two people who built Simmons Sea Skiffs as their first boat.


https://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plans-kits/simmons-sea-skiff-boat-plans

For beating up on the rocks of Maine, it's hard to beat an aluminum boat. It's won't be pretty, but you can keep the family happy, and then build something smaller just for you and a buddy to duck hunt out of. Don't forget you'll need some kind of shed for boat storage . . . .
 
Phil and Tod - Sounds good! Will save a pile on shipping that way too (cutting myself). I may spring for the fancier material if the rest of the budget is looking good, otherwise I'm sure I'll enjoy her slightly more delicately.

Thanks Jeff, all good thoughts. I should have clarified I would never hunt with that many people, purely 'messing about' type activities. "One more" - indeed! I guess I should also have clarified I'm looking for something "good enough" on those points. Gotta start somewhere, eh? The simmons sea skiff looks highly intriguing! Thanks for the share.

It's interesting, I wasn't particularly concerned about the beach-ability of a modern built wooden boat at the outset of this. This thread has indicated perhaps I should re think that! In my experience with different small craft, a light boat doesn't seem to mind being pulled up on kelp-y rocks or gravel that much. I guess I sorta looked at "hull weight, 330 lbs" and put in that mental check that it ought to perform similarly to other non-wood-core smallcraft and be alright. There will be some scuffs and bit for sure, but I've never seen outright hull issues on any of those other crafts. On the other hand, I think a 20 footer weighing thousands of pounds with a deep v is the kind of thing where you call it "beaching" to save the embarrassment of saying "run aground" :p

So yes, even though an Alu boat would be wise, and a fiberglass could be had today, I really am dead set on building my own. :)
 
Caroline Casals said:
Phil and Tod - Sounds good! Will save a pile on shipping that way too (cutting myself). I may spring for the fancier material if the rest of the budget is looking good, otherwise I'm sure I'll enjoy her slightly more delicately.

Thanks Jeff, all good thoughts. I should have clarified I would never hunt with that many people, purely 'messing about' type activities. "One more" - indeed! I guess I should also have clarified I'm looking for something "good enough" on those points. Gotta start somewhere, eh? The simmons sea skiff looks highly intriguing! Thanks for the share.

It's interesting, I wasn't particularly concerned about the beach-ability of a modern built wooden boat at the outset of this. This thread has indicated perhaps I should re think that! In my experience with different small craft, a light boat doesn't seem to mind being pulled up on kelp-y rocks or gravel that much. I guess I sorta looked at "hull weight, 330 lbs" and put in that mental check that it ought to perform similarly to other non-wood-core smallcraft and be alright. There will be some scuffs and bit for sure, but I've never seen outright hull issues on any of those other crafts. On the other hand, I think a 20 footer weighing thousands of pounds with a deep v is the kind of thing where you call it "beaching" to save the embarrassment of saying "run aground" :p

So yes, even though an Alu boat would be wise, and a fiberglass could be had today, I really am dead set on building my own. :)
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One last thing on this beaching thing... the standard of what devlin specs for boats like that is 2 layers of 6 ounce glass. Going better is 6 ounce glass over a similar Kevlar (this is what I have), the tolman skiffs are (if I remember) 2 layers of 12 ounce glass. Tons of options along that range. Kevlar isn?t too bad to work with, just need to get it on neatly and have it covered with glass.

The experience I had was that the 6 ounce glass cut very, very easily, but the rocks rode on the Kevlar underneath and didn?t cut through, but dented the wood beneath.

Build is fun.
 
Caroline Casals said:
It's interesting, I wasn't particularly concerned about the beach-ability of a modern built wooden boat at the outset of this. This thread has indicated perhaps I should re think that! In my experience with different small craft, a light boat doesn't seem to mind being pulled up on kelp-y rocks or gravel that much. I guess I sorta looked at "hull weight, 330 lbs" and put in that mental check that it ought to perform similarly to other non-wood-core smallcraft and be alright. There will be some scuffs and bit for sure, but I've never seen outright hull issues on any of those other crafts. On the other hand, I think a 20 footer weighing thousands of pounds with a deep v is the kind of thing where you call it "beaching" to save the embarrassment of saying "run aground" :p
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I will preface this with I KNOW that kayaks and boats you are looking at are vastly different in the wood thickness they use. But just to put a little "push" in having you keep thinking about beach-ability....my dad lived in Corpus Christi with the Navy for a while. He took one of his CLC kayaks out for some redfishing on the bay. Shallow water sight fishing. Rocks aren't much of a concern down there but oysters are. Well he had gotten into some super shallow water and he was rolling out of the kayak so that he could walk it over what he thought was just a sandbed. Unknown to him was a little cluster of oysters in that sandbed so when he rolled the kayak a little so he could stand up, the oysters punched through the hull and he began taking on water. As I said...shallow water so he just had to walk back to the ramp but it didn't take much and it was summer so great weather. It was an easy fix too. Definitely keep in mind what has been stated about wood boats and being mindful of rocks up your way

And I know I "get" the I want to build my own boat thing. I too felt the exact same way when I started duck hunting. It was a fun couple of projects but you for sure need a storage place for a wooden boat more than just a tarp.
 
Welcome, thanks for providing a stimulating question for this group of boat fans.


Unlike many of the guys here, I'm way too lazy and our rocky coast and rivers are too abusive for wood boats. I've become infatuated with aluminum. I've a fleet of 4 aluminum boats sitting on trailers ranging from a 20-ft Lund Alaskan, down to a 12-ft sneak boat. It's great fun and I find it rewarding to redesign and modify an existing aluminum boat into a much better fit for my application. That generally means add a deck of some kind to keep water out and provide a surface to work decoys, dog and fishing activities. In the late 90's I installed a wood deck on an old 14-ft 1960s Wolverine. This deck in some detail is shown in the Readers Rigs Archive under my name. That old semi-V tub like hull shape is the best one I've worked with to date. It was medium free-board, squat and stable with loads of storage and planed easily.
View attachment wolvdeckgoosin.jpg


It finally died in 2006 and was replaced with a StarCraft 14-ft Sea Farer which spec'd out much larger but in fact as a V-hull her initial stability is lower, the added 6 inches of free-board makes her harder to climb into, but over all, she is much more sea worthy and making 7 mile runs across Narragansett Bay in the dark she's the preferred hull. I decked her with aluminum. After fitting the deck together, a local fellow Duck hunter volunteered to weld it up for me. It came out great. On both projects, I left the seats in place filled with foam for flotation. Decoy bags and sleds fit down on the hull between the seats and the seats provide a surface to stand and walk on. The deck can used to sit on. Once the decoys are set out, both designs had flip boards that could be deployed to make the boat into a blind.
View attachment 14 ft underway2.JPG


Last summer I got the itch for a new project, a 14-ft jet outboard decked over and set up for fishing and duck hunting the "non-navigable" section of the CT River I live near. I bought the hull and trailer off Craig's List and stripped it to nothing and had a blast modifying her into a totally different boat. With the exception of the extended motor board everything was done in aluminum and riveted together with solid aluminum rivets. Tools used: Pneumatic Riveter kit for solid rivets ($150) and a compressor to run it, hand pop riveter, jig/saber saw, chop saw, angle grinder, drill, sanders and misc. hand tools.

gforum.cgi


For your light weight rocky water needs I'd strongly recommend finding a solid used 16 to 18-foot aluminum boat and trailer and modifying it to fit your personal requirements. Recommendations on these requirements and modifications would certainly entertain the armchair boat designers for a few more pages.

Enjoy!
Scott
 
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Scott - great boats!! Thank you so much for the share, looks like you've had a blast in them indeed.

Your detailed description in the archive plus pictures here are an inspiration. I'll be honest, I hadn't really considered that alu boat building would be approachable in a home shop. Seemed like it would require a proper metal shop (which I most definitely don't have). Seems like the tool requirements might be even less demanding than a wood/glass boat - though I've got most of what I need today. Just a few small items I might pick up for a wood boat, but this is still a very approachable tool list. I'm thinking that I might be accumulating some more books on the shelf before picking a design for the winter :)

And this is certainly a fun conversation, thank you all
 
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