Scull boat oars

Allen Chisholm

New member
I have an old scull boat made by tdbc when they were in maine, the only thing I am missing is a sculling oar. I have been getting by with an oar from my skiff but would really like to find a long scull oar, could anyone tell me where to go to find one. Thank Al
 
I have an old scull boat made by tdbc when they were in maine, the only thing I am missing is a sculling oar. I have been getting by with an oar from my skiff but would really like to find a long scull oar, could anyone tell me where to go to find one. Thank Al

Got a new one sitting right here.
Pricing/etc. is on the website under the Brant II/II-X info.
www.lockstockbarrell.com
There might even be some folks here or on the sculling forum with used oars.
Let me know how we can be of service.
Lou
 
I have one of Lou's oars. I'm not known for taking good care of stuff, but I can tell you this thing is tough. It's lasted me 8 years so far and has another 28 left in it! Sculls well and still sturdy enough to push off the shore, log etc (though I'm sure it's not recomended)
 
Have you thought of making your own? If your interested tonight I can post Greg Stender's method of glassing a blade to the handle and the laminated method I used.

Scott
 
Allen,
The next thing you have to decide is whether you are FSU (Flat Side Up) or FSD (Flat Side Down). That should open up a whole can of worms.
For the record..........I am FSU and all the phyics supports it. ;)
Lou
 
Okay Lou I'll rise to this one like a brookie to a dry royal coachman!

Who are you going to believe, and X-Physics teacher or an ENGINEER!!! :^)

FSU only generates life if your whipping the oar back and forth at very high speed. Most of us mere humans won't ever get the oar traveling that fast. My personal theory is that the effective angle of attack affecting how fast the oar wants to dive is much more important than an airfoil effect. As shown below the FSD wants to dive down with more force than the FSU with the same 35 degree rotation and side to side movement.

View attachment FSD dynamics.jpg

Enjoying life!
Scott
 
Scott,
As an engineer, you have your forces backwards. With FSU, I am pushing the water behind me and moving the boat forward. If you are doing that with FSD, the rounded side is moving the water and not very efficiently. We are not using the oar as a hydrofoil. If that were the case, the lift would pull the boat backwards.
But...that's JMHO. ;)
Lou
 


Both FSU & FSD work but FSD (RSU) is less efficient. The oar feels like it moves easier....because it's spilling water off the convex surface and offers less resistance. Less resistance means less water moved and less forward motion.
Lou

View attachment OarMove-001.jpg
 
Maybe but maybe not. You seem to think sculling is some kind of jet propulsion pushing the boat forward. Oar movement is side to side. The oar is rotated to dig into the water column which in turn forces the blade downward. Your hand resists the fulcrum effect and the diving force ends up pushing on the bottom of the thru hole. This push on your stern hole drives the boat forward. Since FSD cuts down into the water column better it drives you forward better for the same blade angle of attack. It also increase the felt lift against your hand. Then again, I'm certainly not going to convince you am I ;^)

But do take the time to do a free body diagram with an oar sticking out the back almost horizontal. Now how do you push water backwards? You would need a lifting stroke. It's the side to side motion using water resistance to drive the oar downward against the hole that pushes the boat forward. If you get different results please post your F.B.D.

Best!
Scott
 
Maybe but maybe not. You seem to think sculling is some kind of jet propulsion pushing the boat forward. Oar movement is side to side. The oar is rotated to dig into the water column which in turn forces the blade downward. Your hand resists the fulcrum effect and the diving force ends up pushing on the bottom of the thru hole. This push on your stern hole drives the boat forward. Since FSD cuts down into the water column better it drives you forward better for the same blade angle of attack. It also increase the felt lift against your hand. Then again, I'm certainly not going to convince you am I ;^)

But do take the time to do a free body diagram with an oar sticking out the back almost horizontal. Now how do you push water backwards? You would need a lifting stroke. It's the side to side motion using water resistance to drive the oar downward against the hole that pushes the boat forward. If you get different results please post your F.B.D.

Best!
Scott

You had it right until "Since FSD cuts down into the water column better it drives you forward better for the same blade angle of attack". At that point, the logic is flawed. Your oar moves easier because it isn't moving as much water. ;) You're right, the physics has already proven itself to me and I'm apparently not going to change your mind either. ;)
Lou
 
It depends on the oar. I have a Witham style oar that has a very long and broad blade that works best FSU. In fact it only really works FSU. I've also used Witney style curved oars which are used FSD. You can't use them any other way due to the curve in the shaft. Personally I think the Whitney oar will drive a light wooden boat (like the ones they were made with) better than any other style of oar. The straight bladed oars seem to drive the heavier fiberglass boats better. These are just my personal observations. You're mileage may vary.

The bottom line is try it both ways and use the method that moves your boat best. Engineering and theory are fine and dandy but they also state that a bumble bee can't fly. Boat building is an art. The more specialized the boat the more art involved. Most of the men who built scull boats back in the day were not engineers. They were craftsmen who fiddled around until they found what worked.

Nick
 
Engineering and theory are fine and dandy but they also state that a bumble bee can't fly. Boat building is an art.
I always wondered how sculling works. I still don't understand it quite just yet from the explanations in the previous posts which bring me back to my physics classes in college... :) all we're miissing is the use of calculus to figure out the area of the water under the curve of the oar :) I figured I'd one day meet someone with a sculling boat and ask for a demonstration.

I wholeheartedly agree with the comment about engineering theory and the evolution of things - whether we're talking about boat building by people who didn't know any engineering principles (only what worked through trial and error) or the bumblebee. I hate to hijack the thread, but this is what I have pinned to my corkboard here at work, so that I can read it when I feel nothing is going my way (I titled it "Remember the Bumblebee!"). I think it just goes to show that sometimes there doesn't always need to be an explanation for why something works :) here it is:

A few years ago, as the story goes, scientists at NASA developed an interest in bumblebees. The lab folks reckoned that the littleinsect held some secrets of flight that may provide answers to questions about operating in space. After all, they asked, how could such small wings produce efficient lift for a relatively large and hairy torso? And how could a round body and flight position that violated mahy principles of aerodynamics move so efficiently through the air? Indeed, there was much to learn from the little hummer.

So the scientists set about sudying the bumblebee to discover its flying secrets. As scientists always do, they hypothesized about, scrutinized, examined, dissected, measured, timed, filmed, observed, compared, quantified, thought about and debated the bumblebee. After weeks of study they came to one conclusion: Bumblebees are not capable of flight.

Furtunately, no one told the bumblebee. The silly insects go right on believeing that flight is normal for them, despite what the best scientific minds in the world know as fact.

We can learn a lot from the bumblebee. The single most critical piece of the puzzle of life is believing in yourself and your capacity to succeed. "If you think you can or think you can't, you'r probably right" (Henry Ford). The bumblee thinks it can fly. Actually, the thought of anything else never even crosses its tiny mind. It just keeps on flying. Remember the Bumblebee!

**************************
Since writing this, I did a google search on the subject, and it seems that more people have looked into this over the years, and they still can't quite figure it out, although they are certain there is an answer somewhere :) you gotta love the scientific method! (coming from a microbiologist)
 
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Lou,

I feel touched that the only acronyms I ever created are still in use. I have used both type oars (in fact I have one of yours which has been tested by several at the annual sculler's fest). Being a salesman I cannot speak to the physics of the matter and I have come to the conclusion that the only thing that really matters is size. Never use an oar less than 6' long.....Oh yeah, and "Whippiness" matters too.

Hans
 
Sculling is fairly easy. Just forget anything about a figure-eight stroke. The oar can travel straight back and forth. You simply tilt the blade so that it cuts forward in the water as it moves back and forth. This is done by twisting the handle. The leading edge if the oar is tilted forward. The tilt is opposite for the oar stroke going port and going starboard.

I doubt it makes a difference if the oar is round on one side or flat on both. A thinner, flatter blade may even be more efficient.
 
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