Shooting hens

W

Worth Mathewson

Active member
I wonder what the waterfowlers on this site think about the article in the new issue of WILDFOWL stating it does no harm to kill hens? Me? I sure wish it hadn't been printed. Hope everyone has an excellent upcoming season. Worth Mathewson
 
Worth

I dropped that subscription years ago. Haven't seen the article. Was it an across-the-board "shooting hens doesn't matter" article? Did they give any insight into studies on the subject and findings, or lack thereof? What about current hen restrictions? Did they suggest they are not needed?

Eric
 
From what I understand, most studies indicate that shooting hens/hen restrictions do not have a significant impact on populations levels.

That said, most guys I know, for the most part, try not to target hens.
Using self-restraint & letting the hens pass just makes sense to most of us.
Can't hurt.
 
I haven't seen the article, haven't picked up Waterfowler for a while. I think to say definitively it does or doesn't is a stretch either way. I think the odds are that shooting hens has far less to do with the population then what a lot of hunters believe but that is just my opinion from looking at numbers.

The three or four ducks that have gained the most in the last 20 years are those that probably have the most hens shot, Bluewings, Greenwings, Gadwalls and Shovelers although nobody ever admits to shooting those but they sure are high up in the bag numbers. If I waited for marked drakes on any of those I'd always have a tough first month of the season. I'm not saying I don't pass on some hens, have for years on pintails. I just like for it to be up to me and not an unwritten law based mostly on tradition and very unclear science.

I know two things for sure, habitat trumps it all and when the feds decide we need to shoot fewer ducks the first and most important thing to happen is fewer days.

I also swear I see more hens shot 'accidentally' by greenhead hunters on TV then I have ever shot on purpose.

I don't think anyone who has passed hens is going to change because of an article and those that shot hens already do. I do wonder if they could cite studies or if they just looked at more general numbers and formed an opinion like me. I wouldn't write an article and tell others it is OK because I think it is.

Tim
 
I don't know for certain if shooting hens makes a difference of not. However, if I was the editor, I would NOT have run the article.
 
I don't target hens nor due alot of my clients but, if the science is telling us it's okay to take hens & that it doesn't effect the breeding pop's, then why not put out the info.

Hen shooting is more of an ethical issue than a management issue & most "waterfowlers" pass on the hens.
 
I know two things for sure, habitat trumps it all and when the feds decide we need to shoot fewer ducks the first and most important thing to happen is fewer days.


Tim
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This is a great point.

We attended a very heated mtg last month where a group of hunters were attempting to restrict access on a public piece of unmanaged marsh from (7) seven days down to (3) three days a week.

The head waterfowl biologist for Florida gave the following factors in regards to waterfowl numbers & their behavoir.

1) Water
2) Food
3) Weather
4) Hunting Pressure/Hunter Harvest

I will always err on the side of science but shooting a pintail/widgeon hen to me is like taking a big breeding redfish out of the population even though it falls in the upper slot.

It's our future & a dead female anything can't make babies!!!
 
I don't think anyone who has passed hens is going to change because of an article and those that shot hens already do. I do wonder if they could cite studies or if they just looked at more general numbers and formed an opinion like me. I wouldn't write an article and tell others it is OK because I think it is.

Tim
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Tim

That could very well be the case. I'm under the impression that the studies done in the past were not what you'd call comprehensive, perhaps only with opportunistic data rather than a full blown designed study. From what I remember the evidence doesn't seem to suggest shooting hen mallards is detrimental to the population, but that ws from a limited data set. I wouldn't extrapolate those results very far, like to cans, pins, etc.
 
I don't know that hunter harvest has much effect on the overall population, but the way I look at it is that every hen I shoot equals one fewer nest the next spring. That said, I have shot my share of hens but I really do try to be selective, and I won't look down on someone for shooting hens here and there. One thing that has never made much sense to me is that here in Utah you are limited to no more than 2 mallard hens in your 7 duck bag limit but you could shoot 7 teal, gadwall, wigeon, or shoveler hens and be totally legal.
 
I don't agree with the article, as enough hens get killed without really being targed. You think they could have found something better to write about?

How about the Responsibility. When hunters "Shoot Dark Ducks" - aka ducks shot very early, and very late in the day, when species, and sex, are Very much in question?
 
I don't agree with the article, as enough hens get killed without really being targed. You think they could have found something better to write about?

How about the Responsibility. When hunters "Shoot Dark Ducks" - aka ducks shot very early, and very late in the day, when species, and sex, are Very much in question?
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Agreed, many hens are taken in that first 15 minutes,and that happens. Later in the morning I just don't see the sense in it. When you look at how long these hens are productive,( 20+ years) that is alot of birds to take out of the equation.
 
I've read for years that hunters bag of hens doesn't make much if any difference in the total population. Having said that, I shoot what I can kill cleanly and legally and don't stress over the sex.

John Bourbon
 
A waterfowl biologist told me that the limits work fine...shoot the hens. I have often asked the "Drake only" guys how they hunt black bellies, fulvous or September teal because there is absolutely no way to know what you are shooting. No answer on that one yet. The truth is that hunting all together is a fairly minor percentage of waterfowl mortality. It is not even an ethical issue ...it is a personal choice. It is kinda like in Wisconsin they had to make deer hunters shoot a doe in order to earn the right shoot a buck. Some ideas die hard...if at all.
 
Canadian geese(all geese), Seem to not have a problem and hens get shot all the time. Habitat is more important. I let hens pass if possible though.
John
 
It's kinda like hitting a woman...you really didn't mean to, sometimes it's too dark, sometimes they just get in the way...and sometimes they are just too butch and you couldn't tell the difference...

Seriously though, for me, I'll pick a drake if the opportunity is there, but take a clean, ethical shot first and foremost. As crappy as ducking has been in Michigan the last several years, and as many park ducks as we have, if a lone suzie pitches in wings cupped and I don't have one in the bag, she's going down. I always wondered why the hen rule wasn't used on more species that had a greater need for breeding hens, but have heard many times over that habitat has more to do with the population trends than not shooting hens.

Chuck
 
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Worth - Kind of a loaded question with waterfowlers. I've found it to be almost political amoungst waterfowlers.

My two cents...
  • I trust our biologist each year in that, they don't discriminate between drakes and hens in our bag limits. If they did, I would honor this. Based on this, I trust them and, their research and will shoot a hen.
  • The duck numbers this year were outstanding, what they are doing must be working. And, in that plan we are allowed to shoot hens yet, the numbers are at an all time high.
  • Makes it difficult to not shoot hens when the BWT come through Illinois. They all look like hens. Same with ruddies and blacks.
  • Lastly, taking a no hen shooting stance should pretty well rule out anyone hunting in Canada. As we all know, with the drakes not yet plumed out in many species, even the best waterfowler would struggle to identify hens on the wing.
Just my two cents...
 
I don't get that magazine anymore. I got tired of it a while ago to much product promotion in all the articles. But I think I will but a copy of it to read the article. Can you guys tell me what there some science to base this on or was it simply an opinion of the writer. If it has some basis in science and fact I would like to read it.
 
Canadian geese(all geese), Seem to not have a problem and hens get shot all the time. Habitat is more important. I let hens pass if possible though.
John
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Thinking likewise
 
How about the question of what caused the Extinction of the Labrador duck? Just to stir the pot..........

Habitat?

Over -exploitation?

I can imagine guys running to get Frank C. Bellrose's - Ducks,Geese & Swans of North America, and other good reference books. Thats what I did.

All good reads, but with no proof positive answers.
 
Without going into long and technical lessons on the biology, history of hen restrictions, personal hunting ethics, etc., I'll just say that hunting mortality on hens is low compared to other sources of mortality. You'll notice hen restrictions in place for only a few species, mainly due to societal values and history. I haven't pulled up the literature lately but I am unaware of any studies showing that hen restrictions have had any effect on increasing hen survival rates. Hen restrictions are of great personal value to many and I try to practice drakes only gunning purely as a way to make my hunting more challenging and satisfying. But I don't feel guilty if I take a hen.

The biology of geese and ducks is different enough that you shouldn't compare the effect of hen restrictions on the vital rates of these species. Likewise, you shouldn't argue that hen restrictions are effective if you believe hunting mortality is not additive to other sources of mortality. If hunting is not going to hurt populations then there needs to be a compensation mechanism in the overall population. So, sure the hen you shoot is not going to breed, but the ones you don't shoot may be more successful or survive better because you shot the other hen.
 
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