Sneakbox Grass Rails Help Central Jersey

K

Kevin G.

New member
To give a quick intro my name is Kevin, Im 22 years old and have been converted to a duck hunter from a deer hunter about 5 years ago. I am relatively new to this website and have just recently picked up my first sneak box (All Glass Higbee Unknown MFD) earlier this year.

With help from the information offered on this forum, I've been able to start restoring it for the upcoming season but with my lack of knowledge and experience have only made it as far as glassing and filling small holes/delaminated spots throughout the boat. While I am still learning and open to new challenges, I am inquiring for some help to make some grass rails as well as a meet someone with some boat building knowledge to bounce questions off of.

Is there any veteran builders in the central Jersey region willing to give some advice and maybe lend a couple hours to help me make some rails? Compensation can be offered through your choice of cold beverages or through bartering as I'm on a tight budget for the restoration!

Thanks,
Kevin
 
Swing by the Tuckerton Seaport if you can. They have 100 sneaboxes on display. Ron Spodofora is an articulate boat builder at the Seaport and can most likely answer any questions you have. He and i built my sneakbox together. He should be there Wed thru Sun. Call ahead though.
 
Kevin~

Here are a few thoughts on grass (aka thatch) rails:

1. Design them to hold enough grass but not too much - to avoid unnecessary weight. For gunning the south shore of Long Island, I use Salt Hay (Spartina patens) with a bit of Cordgrass (Spartina alterniflora) mixed in. I have found that the optimal thickness/gap of the spaces is 3/16".

2. You can make thatch rails either from a single board and remove the material from the gaps (with a jig saw or router) or glue spacer blocks to a thinner piece. I prefer the latter approach.

3. I will be making new thatch rails for my Sneakbox later this summer. Although, like Rich, I have used White Oak in the past, I may try Cypress (or some Douglasfir I have on hand). I will use the spacer method. The rails will be 3/4" thick by 1" wide and run the full length of the boat, about 6" inboard of the gunwale. Spacers will be 3/16" thick by 1" wide by 2" long; I will glue and clamp them on with Titebond III. I will glue the spacers so that there is ~8" gap between each spacer.

4. Wherever I can, I will fasten the rails through the deck with either small carriage bolts (like 1/4" galvanized) or oval head machine screws (SS or brass). Where I cannot get access behind the fastener with a flat washer and nut, I use self-tapping SS screws instead; I usually have to do this at the ends. (BTW: If you are fastening through just 'glass and no wood, I'd recommend using SS fender washers to distribute the load). The rails are set in an adhesive caulk like 3M 5200 at each spacer block.

5. When you actually install the rails, begin at the bow and work aft - because the bend is usually tighter up forward and it will help to have the leverage of the full rail to make the bend. This job is much easier with a helper.

Here are the rails on my first boat. I made them from White Oak half-round rubrail:

Grassboat1-a_zpsfbab6de6.jpg


These rails are from Cypress - for light weight and rot resistance. The gaps are taller (3/8") and longer (10") because it's a freshwater boat and so needs to accommodate Cattails and even brush. If your rails meet at the bow, it's nice to tie them together with a bow handle or support for your bow light.

SweetGherkin-2010_zps0b0e92be.jpg


Hope this helps!

SJS
 
Thanks for the info guys! Steve, I was going to try to just get a board and cut the sections out with a jig saw/band saw but I kind of like the spacer idea also! Never really thought of that.. Has anyone ever used a pvc "decking" style material similar to what home depot sells named azek? That's what I wad looking to use because it well never rot and is plenty strong. Anyone ever used it?
 
Kevin~

My only time using Azek on a boat was for the "sprayrail" (to hold the bottom edge of the canvas spray dodger/cowling) on White-Wing last fall. It was perfect for this application because it bends so readily. However, I would not use it for thatch rails precisely because it bends so easily. (I am presuming you will be wedging grass beneath the rails and not lashing the bundles of grass on - if you are doing the latter, Azek would probably be fine.) One of the wonderful properties of wood is that few other materials provide so much stiffness for its weight. If the rails are too limber, the grass can work its way out.

Sprayrail1_zps79058c75.jpg


If you do use Azek (I have no other experience with other brands of plastic lumber or decking), be aware that it is significantly softer than wood. On the spray rail, I had countersunk the holes to receive flathead screws - and the screws wanted to pull partially through the Azek material. Next time, I will use panhead screws without countersinking.

All the best,

SJS
 
Kevin, if you use the Azek deck material, know that it is heavier than wood, but I like to use it too. I used it for the backing plates in my rebuild, as it is denser than wood, will not split and will not rot! The trim that Steve is refering to is very soft and light. I used that for the daggerboard plug in my rebuild as I knew it would compress if there was ice expansion in the slot, and not stress the slot which I made with the deck material! Saved me having to figure out how to fiberglass/epoxy/seal the inside of the daggerboard trunk. I constantly search CL for Azek cut-offs. My only issue has been melting to the bandsaw blade. IDK if there are other brands that make similar. What HD and Lowes stocks have ribbed bottoms surfaces, or rabbet grooves on the edge.
 
Thanks to those of you who have posted so far.. After doing a bit of research I have found one other option that I'd like to get an opinion on---

Eye straps and "bungee cords"

Seems pretty simplistic, and cheap. Many people are using this method to attach grass as well as using "thatch rails", so its definitely something to consider.









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Using a bungee system like that would work well if you are using a lot of the longer spartina grasses as they break down faster than salt hay (which usually lasts the whole season or more) and you are going to be replacing that grass more on average.

I use salt hay on my decoy racks and spartina on the decks and use a single bungee from front to back for the forward deck.

IMG_2273.jpg


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i use the bungee on my kayak in the same patern and i also ran it along the cockpit it holds the grass well even when dragging through marsh or tossing in at out of a truck.
 
Yeah, I think i'm going to end up using the eye straps and bungee cords rather than wood grass rails. It seems so simplistic and effective. It will never rot and won't ever have maintenance issues. Now I just have to figure out what size bungee to use. I'm thinking between 1/4 in. or 5/16 bungee with nylon eye straps and SS fasteners.
 
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Kevin~

I used a tan-colored 1/4" shock cord (mail-ordered) on my most recent Coffin Box:

23Startlashingtotheshockcordwithoneendoverandtheotherendunderthecord_zps3ad778af.jpg


I ran 2 rows more or less parallel - and then lashed bundles of Salt Hay to each cord with sisal twine - so I can just cut the latter and discard when the Hay wears out.

All the best,

SJS
 
Steve,

Thats a great idea to just tie it to the cord with some sisal. I was thinking about that, or adding an eye strap every 6-8 inches or so to give the cord some tension throughout much like a grass rail.

I think I am going to get a roll of the 1/4 inch cord off of ebay.. Its pretty cheap, about $10-15 for 50 feet which should be more then enough for what I want to do with it.
 
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50 feet will last you a long time I just finished my role off and I already am saying I wish I had more.
 
Kevin~

I used a tan-colored 1/4" shock cord (mail-ordered) on my most recent Coffin Box:

23Startlashingtotheshockcordwithoneendoverandtheotherendunderthecord_zps3ad778af.jpg


I ran 2 rows more or less parallel - and then lashed bundles of Salt Hay to each cord with sisal twine - so I can just cut the latter and discard when the Hay wears out.

All the best,

SJS
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Do you happen to have a picture of the entire coffin blind Steve ? Thanks
 
Thanks to those of you who have posted so far.. After doing a bit of research I have found one other option that I'd like to get an opinion on---

Eye straps and "bungee cords"

Seems pretty simplistic, and cheap. Many people are using this method to attach grass as well as using "thatch rails", so its definitely something to consider.

While bungee will work... WHY!!!!! Take a traditional Barnegat and add bungee, it just cheapens the look. My Barnegat uses 1 milk box of grass because I am able to put a thin layer of grass. When you use bungee you need a lot more grass which equals a lot more weight when it gets wet.



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