Sneakbox Restoration

Bob Reitmeyer said:
Jode, good to know I'm on the right track with the band saw. Any size/brand plane you'd recommend?
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I just use a 6 inch old Stanley low angle block plane. It was my great grandfathers, but still does the job it was meant to do very well. I?m fairly certain the same tool is still available now
 
Tom~


That's great to hear - from an accomplished boat guy - especially just a couple of weeks from my birthday!


All the best,


SJS
 
Finally have all the new planks on. The final fit at the bow was a bit tricky. Fortunately I hadn't secure them at the feather edge. The most useful thing I have done so far was remove the old planks entirely intact. This was very helpful for patterning the new planks and for determining where to place the screws along the feather edge and at the bow. I did learn that though some of the screws may pull themselves in to the new wood akin to being counter sunk they all won't. In the rough fairing process with the belt sander I found a few needed to be removed, counter sunk, and then replaced. This was especially true of screws that didn't fund much purchase and would pull in. One detail I missed was that the center hull plank is beveled backwards so that it will make a snug fit with the center deck plank. Once I noticed this I needed to unattached the center plank from one the ribs to shape it with my drawing knife and rasp. Also, I really wish I had been able to continue in earnest a bit earlier, this weekend would have been excellent glassing weather. I'll chalk that up to COVID.View attachment IMG_8382.JPGView attachment IMG_8379.JPGView attachment IMG_8378.JPG
 
Bob Reitmeyer said:
It?s been a long time coming, but I?m finally moving on the restoration of a Sneakbox my Great Grandfather Carl Adams sometime in the 60?s. I believe it to be all white cedar, the deck being tongue and groove. What I had hoped to be a re-glassing has turned into a bit more. This is probably no surprise to anyone who works on wooden boats. Fortunately I have my Nephew to assist and bring energy. The first big step was getting the boat out of the elements so everything could completely dry out. Removing the old glass and epoxy was difficult as expected. All of the planks with rot came off intact so I will be able to pattern them for replacement. Next I will be sister some ribs and reinforce the tea some. Previous restoration posts have been very helpful since I?ve never tackled a repair this involved. Hopefully I will have this boat ready for sea trials in mid to late summer.
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I got to see this project when I was visiting Fred, looks great.
 
Really nice project! Was this boat, and others of similar vintage designed with the motor board for outboard from the get go? These hulls look relatively unchanged since they were rigged for sail and oar. I love the displacement hull and small motor needed. Also, these are quite a bit more elegant and "quirky" than the more modern sheet ply derivatives. I could see building one new, strip planked or cold molded.

Also, will you use regular glass fabric? Have you considered xynole? Just curious. I think the xynole would be a bit more flexible. I have used dynel on decks, and it is possible to maintain the open weave look that is traditional with canvas covered decks. I do think those two fabrics might hold more epoxy than glass, which could be on the heavy side. Just curious if you or other builder/restorers are trying the polyester fabrics. I believe they offer better abrasion resistance, but little strength. You wouldn't use it in place of glass on a stitch and glue boat, but your boat is strong all by itself.

Thanks for posting,
Jim
 
Thanks Jim,

There are more educated sneakbox historians on this site than me, but I believe once outboards became available the sailing models became less popular as the hunting model. Some boating clubs kept the sailors for racing etc. This boat was designed for an outboard, and when rowed just glides over the water.

I'm not familiar with xynole. I'm going to be glassing with 10 ml fabric and West System epoxy. These sneakboxes were actually built not to be glassed so you're right the strength is already there. As I understand it the boats became watertight after water swelled the hull planks and the boats were kept in the water.


Jim Cricket said:
Really nice project! Was this boat, and others of similar vintage designed with the motor board for outboard from the get go? These hulls look relatively unchanged since they were rigged for sail and oar. I love the displacement hull and small motor needed. Also, these are quite a bit more elegant and "quirky" than the more modern sheet ply derivatives. I could see building one new, strip planked or cold molded.

Also, will you use regular glass fabric? Have you considered xynole? Just curious. I think the xynole would be a bit more flexible. I have used dynel on decks, and it is possible to maintain the open weave look that is traditional with canvas covered decks. I do think those two fabrics might hold more epoxy than glass, which could be on the heavy side. Just curious if you or other builder/restorers are trying the polyester fabrics. I believe they offer better abrasion resistance, but little strength. You wouldn't use it in place of glass on a stitch and glue boat, but your boat is strong all by itself.

Thanks for posting,
Jim
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Good morning, Jim~


I am interested in your thoughts about Xynole. I will be restoring a traditional Cedar-planked Sneakbox later this Summer. The 'glass on the hull is sound but I will be re-planking the decks, then ;glassing them. I have used Dynel a couple of times - for a cabin top and decks on this hundred-year-old Hudson River Gunning Skiff.


View attachment TDecks 06.JPG



Ready-to-hunt.



View attachment TD 07 From Astern.JPG



Although I like the open-weave texture for this application - where I had replaced the original painted canvas - I may opt for a smooth finish for the Sneakbox. Any advice/tricks in using the Xynole? How is the wet-out? Does it want to float on the resin?



All the best,


SJS

 
Hi Steve, I wrote a long and thought out reply earlier today on my phone, then jumped to another page for a link, and lost the whole thing. The gist was that I have not used xynole myself, only dynel, and was hoping you guys could fill me in! I do know that Reuel Parker specifies xynole for a covering for all of his boats, and he is a designer/builder that I have great respect for, with many large cruising boats under his belt, and maybe 50,000 sea miles. I did find this quote from Tom Lathrop, another designer builder-

<It depends on what you want the sheath to do. For stiffness, glass is much better than the synthetics like Dynel, Xynole or polypropylene Vectra. For abrasion resistance, these synthetics are far better. Kevlar is the king but very expensive and difficult to use.
I made objective tests of abrasion and peel strength of fabrics several years ago and there is an article of these tests in an old Boatbuilder magazine. A single layer of Xynole is a bit more than 6 times as abrasion resistant than 9oz glass cloth, both saturated and covered with epoxy. On a per thickness basis the difference is about 2.4 times. Vectra and Dynel are similar to Xynole in abrasion.
For peel strength, Xynole is by far the best, Vectra is next and glass is not quite as good as Vectra. Dynel failled all attempts to peel it because it broke at the peel line every time. I have had fir plywood to check through Dynel after years of use but never through any of the others. Based on my experience, I would never use Dynel for anything.>

I think xynole is quite a bit more flexible than glass, which is good for trad. planked boat coverings. If a new design were to specify glass, like Devlin's S&G boats, then you wouldn't substitute xynole or dynel. I would buy a yard, and do some wet out tests, but it has interesting properties for the job at hand here.

Nice sneakboxes, both of you! Makes me want to build one.
Jim
 
Didn't have much time due to some home projects, but I did a little work in when I stopped over for Father's Day. What started out as a quick stop to check measurements and get re-acquainted with West system turned into getting the a brushed on coat on the hull and transom. I started at two pumps each just to see how much working time I'd have with the slow hardener and quickly decided just to go for it. At 7 pumps each per cup it probably only took 7 repetitions to finish and no wasted mixture. Next time down I'll fill the cracks and fair some low spots. 60 inch wide 10 ml cloth will cover the hull and wrap the feather edge to make a solid hull. I wish I could make faster progress, but I'll have to settle for the slow walk. View attachment 20200621_164514.jpgView attachment IMG_8438.JPG
 
Good morning, Bob~


Looks great - very exciting!


One suggestion - if you're not already doing so: Foam rollers are much faster than brushes for applying resin. And, the mixed resin in a roller pan will cure a bit more slowly than in a cup.


All the best,


SJS

 
Thanks Steve! And I appreciate all the tips. I did purchase a couple 7" foam roller covers with the idea of rolling on the mixed resin over the fabric. I will probably cut them in half. One question - are the roller covers single use? or can they be used on multiple days?
 
Bob~


I have used each roller cover only once. Not sure if you could get by sticking it in the a refrig or freezer between uses - but I am always concerned that a cover will get glued permanently to the frame.


I cut mine in half, too. Also, I use a combination of squeegees, rollers and brushes when wetting out cloth. Subsequent coats are easier and often just a roller will do.


All the best,


SJS
 
Thanks, I was assuming they couldn't be re-used due to the nature of the material, but it never hurts to ask. I do have a few 3" frames leftover from various home project so maybe I'll gamble with one. I'm prepared with "all of the above" for the initial wet out just to be on the safe side. Hopefully we can meet up at the Ocean County show this year. One of my show "goals" is more time to socialize.
 
For wetting out fabric, a squeege will work much better than a roller, which tends to lift the fabric as you roll, and also aerates it.
Jim
 
After finally making some steady progress I've gotten the fairing completed and the fabric on the hull. I've never tried some of the other resins/hardeners mentioned in other posts, but the West system has made the mixing almost fool proof. The West 410 fairing additive has also been user friendly and only took a small amount of trial and error to get the right consistency. Its worth mentioning that better carpentry leads to less fairing and sanding - something I will certainly remember the next time. After the first go at fairing I found it necessary to go back over it a second time where some of the mixture had sunk in a bit. After sanding it smooth with 80 weight on the orbital sander I had a few spots still to touch up with. Most places took two coats, a few needed three. The ultimate goal is to eliminate air pockets under the fabric so it takes what it takes. Taking suggestions I read here I applied the resin with a brush and a putty knife that is pretty much a squeegee with a handle. With my nephews help we were able to wet out the fabric on the hull and the transom in about an hour and a half. I'm using the slow hardener so I had a good amount of working time. He lives a bit closer and can roll on additional coats this week. In the winter I had purchased 10 yards of 60 inch wide 10ml fabric. 60 inches allowed me to do the hull as one piece. It came neatly folded so I rolled it onto some PVC to remove the creases. Next time down I'll trim off the excess fabric and sand the edges. View attachment IMG_8546.JPGView attachment IMG_8569.JPGView attachment IMG_8572.JPG
 
Beautiful work, Bob!


Just a couple of thoughts - for your next restoration....


Before filling the seams, when I restore my Sneakbox later this summer (there's a 15-foot Grumman canoe getting fresh paint in the shop right now, and a Scooter in the queue ahead of the Sneakbox....), I will fair the new Cedar deck planking with a "longboard" - a long, narrow (~ 22" x 3") piece of 1/4 or 3/8 plywood with 80-grit paper attached - and a handle at each end. This helps to avoid sanding new hollows into the soft planking when fairing because it bridges several planks at once. It is best used diagonally across the seams.



I will use the longboard again after filling the seams - which I will do in 2 steps: first with a putty knife to force filler into the seams - then - after curing and a quick dressing with a sharp scraper - a topcoat applied with a very wide and flexible knife or squeegee.


One other "nit" - as I am a notorious stickler/pettifogger for Old School terminology.: I am guessing your cloth is 10 ounce and not 10 mil. Fabric is traditionally described in weight per square yard - hence the 10 ounces per square yard. 10 mils is 10 one-thousands of an inch in thickness. Sheet plastic (and paint) are typically measured in mils of thickness.



Hope this helps!


SJS





 
Finally turned her right side up for the first time in a few months and was also able to take a few minutes just to make observations. The excess fabric shown has been cut away and the edges smoothed over with a belt sander. I needed to cut a few air pockets out along the feather edge. I expect the fairing process to be much easier on the topside.View attachment IMG_8693.JPGView attachment IMG_8694.JPG
 
Stopped in and was able to brush on the unthickened epoxy in preparation for fairing. The topside should be much easier since I don't have any structural repairs to make. I will have to take my time planning out the oarlocks and thatch rails. The originals just aren't usable and I may switch to oarlocks without moving parts. If I need to row I want them rock solid. View attachment IMG_8699.JPGView attachment IMG_8700.JPG
 
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