So Steve....

Mark W

Mark W

Well-known member
Where are all the ducks? Since all of us are so uneducated and inexperienced to say that the ducks haven't come through, and you are having so much fun with this, seriously, where are the ducks? Since you seem to be suggesting the ducks have migrated, how did they get from up north to wherever they are now? Before this weekend, they didn't come through here.

Some possibilities:

1. A Star Trek type transporter transported the ducks.
2. Someone drove the ducks down south this year in a very large number of trains, planes, trucks or automobiles.
3. They flew from Canada and further north to the south the long way around the globe bypassing the whole of the US.
4. They flew north to get south. I wonder what they thought of the south pole? Must be a global warming thing.
5. They flew so high and so fast that no one along the Mississippi flyway swa them.
6. They all got together and flew to Copenhagen to illustrate how the warming of the planet has messed up their flight habits so we need to change our behavior.

Please enlighten me as to exactly where the ducks are, when they got there and how they got there.

Thanks -

Mark W
 
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I'm not Steve, but from my observations on the Gulf Coast, in the case of some gadwalls, bluebills and buffies and a pile of teal, it might have been No. 5.
We've got a good, not great, number of gadwalls, bluebills and buffies. From what I have heard, Louisiana is simply covered up with teal.

Dont take Steve to seriously, he's just having fun with this topic, just like most of us.
 
There coming down now Mark. Now that the southern Wisconsin zone closed Sunday, I saw 5 huge (100+ birds) flocks working some fields with large flocks of geese. It just took some nasty cold weather to push them down. This is typically the type of sight you would see around Oct. 18th (the date the flight comes through Minnesota) I'm not pulling this date out of my A$$. My father and my uncles were die hard waterfowlers and professed that date as the peak. It worked many times as I used to plan my bird hunting trip to cover Oct. 18th when I lived in Alaska and would fly to MN to hunt that time frame. You can also pull the historical data from USFW pool counts. But then again, they are just biologists counting birds from an airplane on a river system from year to year and maybe, just maybe, a few hundred thousand birds snuck through when they were sleeping ;-)

Our brothers in MO and points south should have some real good shooting in the next weeks.
 
The two things I've taken from this whole deal is this:

Semi trailer sales must be real slow and Stevie must not be killin too many duck either cuz he's spending alot of time on the computer as of late...... ha ha
 
I think you are missing the point a little. Just because the ducks are not where you are at that doesn't mean they aren't somewhere....and just because you didn't see them go by doesn't mean they didn't or that they will ever go by you this year. Flyways are not that hard and fast when it comes to puddle ducks. Believe me I was hearing good reports that made me wish I could have made it too the areas that were holding huge amounts of ducks this fall.
I'm sure most of the ducks that were hang up in North and South Dakota are now in IA, IL, MO. Even in MN other then a few of the very large lakes the state is frozen up.

I'm not speaking for Steve but the way I interpret his subtle words is that the migration is not a set date. If the ducks are not to you yet doesn't mean it hasn't started but that they just aren't where you are. Other then when they are nesting waterfowl are constantly moving. Most don't know that many Bluewings migrate north before they head east and then go south. Young Canada Geese born in SD have been tracked to Canada before the season starts. Most waterfowl don't just move SSE from where they nest until they get to their wintering grounds.

btw Ducks and geese will migrate at night and are not always noticed, especially during a full moon like last week had.

Tim
 
I think you are missing the point a little. Just because the ducks are not where you are at that doesn't mean they aren't somewhere....and just because you didn't see them go by doesn't mean they didn't or that they will ever go by you this year. Flyways are not that hard and fast when it comes to puddle ducks. Believe me I was hearing good reports that made me wish I could have made it too the areas that were holding huge amounts of ducks this fall.
I'm sure most of the ducks that were hang up in North and South Dakota are now in IA, IL, MO. Even in MN other then a few of the very large lakes the state is frozen up.

I'm not speaking for Steve but the way I interpret his subtle words is that the migration is not a set date. If the ducks are not to you yet doesn't mean it hasn't started but that they just aren't where you are. Other then when they are nesting waterfowl are constantly moving. Most don't know that many Bluewings migrate north before they head east and then go south. Young Canada Geese born in SD have been tracked to Canada before the season starts. Most waterfowl don't just move SSE from where they nest until they get to their wintering grounds.

btw Ducks and geese will migrate at night and are not always noticed, especially during a full moon like last week had.

Tim
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But this isn't about just me and just where I hunt. We keep tabs on what is happening from central SD to 50 (more or less) miles into WI and from the upper reaches of ND/MN down to 100 miles south of Pool 4. Some ducks have come through but not in the large numbers that have been through in the past. Others have also said ducks are not around and have not been through. Sof us are trying to figure out what happened, others find it more interesting to poke fun at the comments and the opinions of others as to where the ducks are/aren't.

Never said that migration occurs on a certain day every year. There is typically a range of when one can expect migration to occur through this part of the Mississippi flyway based upon past experience. Weather, feed, available water, and snow cover are what pushes ducks (my opinion) out of these areas and all the pieces, when taken together at least in this area, have not added up to the ducks leaving this year. If they are around the area, they should be leaving now as we are about to get hit with some nasty winter storms in the next few hours and the ponds and lakes are frozen or about to turn to frozen. Minus 6 deg. F. with minus 20 plus windchills are expected tonight and throughout tomorrow I have heard. Wish hunting season was still open as today and tomorrow would be fun to be out.

As far as migrating at night. Yep it happens too. Never have I seen ducks completely go through MN/WI/SD/ND without at least a few people noticing it happening or people being able to definatively state that it happened.

I don't think I'm missing the point but I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer either.

Mark W
 
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plenty of ducks out here in California - you know, we have quite a big state and guess what - drumroll please: They are not all in the same place. I went down to the park and didnt find any, i went down to the boat dock where some guy had his blind set up and didnt find any, I visited the little old lady with a spoon and a pan and didnt find any, hell I couldnt even find one in the bathtub. But guess what, loo and behold, they are in the rice, they are out itn he corn, on the bays and in the rivers.. ...... just waiting to be found. Now if i take moment to get my barbie hair untangled i might just feel good enough to go out and find some.
good fun!
 
Mark,
I don't doubt that you or the people you check with did not see ducks this year. The people I check with were shooting ducks or knew people who were. At times they were seeing huge numbers, at times they saw less. In the past couple weeks it was clear where many were and it wasn't as far south as De Smet. Thas said it doesn't prove others didn't head south or east early on. I'm sure in the past three or four days that a huge push went through. I was hearing reports of ducks and geese moving last week as the cool down started and over the weekend I heard and saw them.

I don't know if Steve is poking fun or what. I just know that the counts at some migration points have been good at the usual times and that in warm weather ducks just don't move much. With the crazy harvest and weather I would have found it odd had duck movements not been screwed up some.

I think there is a little crossing of two different threads happening too. It doesn't sound like you are saying the ducks aren't out there you just don't know where. It will be interesting to see what the numbers show after the season.

Tim
 
well I think any unharvested corn......should be distilled into a fine sour mash whiskey......UMMM....then the ducks can quack and waddle... as I sip and smoke fancy Cuban cigars.......

Here is has turned cold.....snow,,,ice,,,,wind,,,,hard water,,,,,maybe a few goldeneyes trading up and down ice choked rivers,,,to dangerous to send a dog out as they ice flows are almost solid a bumping and grinding together as they float down stream. Thus I shall sit and work and dream of mallards bombing the decoys with abandon.... all less than 35 yards.....


matt
 
I went down to the park and didnt find any,
Click to expand...

Derek, No Park Ducks...at least we got some of those here in Michigan:

DSC001211.jpg


No, that's not me! I hijacked it off the net, but story goes these guys saw them here in Michigan, on a marsh, no farms or petting zoos nearby. They called the DNR and the answer was not only is it legal (falling under "other ducks") but please take them out of the gene pool!
 
I know a guy who mistook a bunch of them on a creek for snow geese.......................cost him $x per bird........the creek was "just" down stream from a farm.
 
I could spend as much time answering you as you have taken in "calling me out"....

Rather than that I'll leave my "answer" in the hands of two posters on numbers of birds SOUTH of you......those being.....

Higher than normal number of birds on the Mississippi on 11-18, from Peter McMiller....and higher than normal birds on the Mosit Soil units in Missouri....also South of you.....

For sure not ALL of the ducks and I'm not disputing that you haven't seen ducks like you have in the past but you tell me.....if those ducks are "south" of you...and the numbers are "higher" than traditional if they didn't migrate to get there then how did they get there?

For sure I've had some fun with these posts...and not because I think your wrong but because once someone says....."the ducks aren't here, and they aren't there, and they aren't elsewhere", its only "seconds" before the Black Helicopter, bad numbers, agenda driven numbers, Government manipulation, out right Goverenment lies to protect license revenue, the ducks aren't on my frozen, planted specifically for them, pond and therefore they can't be ANYWHERE, Duck Clubs report no ducks and they do this for a living, etc. etc. etc. ad naseum", shit starts and to put it simply I find that "humerous" and "comment worthy".....

Truth told I have hunted ducks a grand total of three times in Washington this year.....been Upland Hunting instead......and loving the hell out it, killing lots of Pheasants in a State where the internet pundits screech "there are no Pheasants in Washington" and then go on to add the old standard about them being mis-managed by the same people that are lying about the numbers of ducks.......meanwhile back at the homestead Grandma is beating off the Indians and if you were to read the Wa Refuge page you'd see every other post be-moaing the sad state of duck numbers, the lack of any migration, and "waaaaahhhhhhhhhhh it all a lie".......scattered between those posts are the standard tailgate photos of Bubba and Tyrone with a two day possession limit of Mallards for them and their (5) buds and a story about how the Ducks were as "many as stars in the sky".....

I guess it all depends on what you believe....you, (and lets make that the "collective" you and not the "individual" you), aren't killing ducks and aren't seeing ducks and from that the answer HAS TO BE there are no ducks....be that overall or a specific migration corridor.......me? I see that as, if they aren't "there" then they are "somewhere" and when I see numbers that support that, even if they are from that stinking lying bunch of politician driven Biologist, (and for any Bio that doesn't know me that as TONGUE IN CHEEK AS I GET because I have nothing but the utmost repsect for what you do), and when I see pictures of guys who are either very good and have found concentrations of birds, or were very lucky and stumbled on them, and/or that are willing to "go elsewhere" for them instead of just going back to "MY LITTLE CORNROW " where they once upon a time had a good shoot but haven't "lately", then I find that as evidence that dispute the former claim of "no ducks"........

Steve
 
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Thanks for the response Steve. Thanks for clarifying the "collective you" - you (the personal you) know how that can get me going.

I guess the part that bothers me is the assumption that this is just my experience in my little part of MN. This is not the case and as you have probably read in many of the posts, this is a very unusual year for many spots along some of the flyways.

I saw Pete's information and don't doubt nor am disputing what is contained within. What was reported on 11-18 does not correlate to the link posted earlier today to an Illinois (I think it was Illinois) University report that parroted what has been said by myself and others here, there have been no major flights of ducks through this area nor are there a large number of resting birds on the pools they typically stay in.

Within 100 miles of my house there are some major resting stops for birds. I can recall one time in the past many years where ducks did not stop and stay for at least a couple of days. You knew when they were down. The one year that I recall them flying right on through MN was a horrible weather year and a bunch of storms in a row just made it impossible for the ducks to stay here. I wanted to move it was that bad. This is not the case this year. The bad weather is starting right now with hints of it this past weekend when freezing waterways started.

And actually, I've shot more ducks this year than in many of the past years - certainly better than last year. Wasn't my best year but it wasn't even close to my worst year. How did this happen some might ask since I have been saying there are no ducks down. I've done just what you mention in your note - I've moved around and I've changed my hunting patterns. My hunting corridor has been many hundereds of miles wide and an equal or larger number of miles long. I've hunted 4 States and into Canada so my experience isn't a pinpoint spot on a map as has been eluded to. Not bragging about anything, just saying that where we have hunted, when we have hunted, and who we have hunted with it is the same - no northern ducks.

Even though I've had a good hunting year, the ducks shot have not been migrating ducks. As you know, I love to hunt mallards. It is not difficult to tell the difference between a northern mallard and a locally grown one. Fat layers, bright red feet, overall size of the duck all tend to tell me at least that the duck is not local. I generally do poor early in the season and do better when the big northern birds come on down. This year it has been the exact opposite. Early hunting was fair, mid season hunting was much better and late season hunting was non exsitent. I'd have to check my log but I believe I shot only 1, maybe 2, of what I would classify as northern birds. This is very atypical. I don't get it (we can agree on that huh?)

As far as answering you question as to how did ducks get from point A to point B - I choose #1 - transporter.

And finally, there are no pheasants in SD or MN this year. When the ducks didn't migrate the pheasants did as they don't like the ducks hanging around their territory all that much. They smoke too much duck weed and cause trouble. Got a better offer, and better weather, south of here so the pheasants left.

Got to run as there is a snowstorm outside and it will already take me 45 minutes to drive the 6 miles home.

Mark W
 
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Mark
Now that that migration thing has been settled,
can we talk about the lack of deer in Northern Wis.?
wis boz
 
and others, that I've referenced your "unbroken line of observers stretch across the upper Mid-West".....that should be indicative of my understanding that you "are not" talking about "your little cornrow".....

Some specifics and questions....so you say that the report posted by Pete is disputed by a College? Correct? So yet ANOTHER "the Government is lying about the ducks" or are we going to agree that ducks SOUTH of you on 11-18 didn't necessarily sit there until the date the College folk did their own survey? If we are in agreement that the survey dates weren't the same, and if you are willing to "believe" that the Government wasn't lying about the 11-18 numbers, then what you just described is MIGRATION....ducks move in...ducks move out...sometimes they are replaced by others...sometimes they aren't...sometimes they move in short hops and dribs and drabs.....sometimes they move en mass....sometimes you say "WOW thats more dcks that I can shale a stick at", and other times you think, "no new ducks AGAINNNNNnnnnnnn".....

The above leads me to believe that the answer to your "no migration" is that this is one of those years were "some of the ducks" moved through in such low numbers at any one time as to be undiscernable from the number of local birds that were moving out at the same time....different birds, same genreral overall numbers, but since they aren't sporting license plates its just the "same old stale "local" ducks".......are there LOTS more ducks to the north of you? highly likely....will they now migrate over you EN MASS, ensuring that you miss these as well while you are huddled inside hating the snow that you will be forced to shovel tomorrow...also "highly likely".....either way though the ducks are south of you in substantial numbers, unless those 1-18 numbers and the Missouri numbers are pure and blatant lies, and thats a fact regardless of how they got past you unobserved.....

Migrations can be incredible events...they can also happen all but unnoticed....I'd "suggest" that since you admit to having had better success this year than most that the reason for that was you were in the midst of a long slow, drawn out, migration that fed new birds into the areas you were hunting throughout the season...not enough to be discernable as a big movement but enough to insure that you had birds to shoot.....thats my guess.....

Now...and you are going to love this...you have opened up a WHOLE NEW CAN OF WORMS with your "I can tell NORTHERN MALLARDS from Local Mallards by "leg color, body fat and plummage"....excuse me but here's a big old John Belushi, Animal House, "bbbullllllllshiiiiittttt", to that statement.....increased coloration of the legs in drake Mallards is prompted by two things.....overall health and increased testosterone.....overall health is based on availibility of food and fat reserves, (rahhhh roohhh Chinese fortune cookie say that "migrating duck use fat and have less when shot than local duck who sit on ass and eat all day rong"), and increased testosterone is based on photo period, along with general heath and age.....simply put birds "MATURE INTO" that fabled NORTHERN RED LEG condition and they do that regardless if they are "locals" or "migrators".....

(If you don't believe the above you can ask the Bio's...hopefully we can agree that while you might believe them to be "agenda driven" that they will derive nothing from debunking the "NORTHERN Mallard", "SEEELLLLVER CAN", "BULL Sprig" myth........my guess is they'll correct me on a couple of fine points and that they might throw in that a Mallard on corn in Cd. will have a better overall health than a local bird without corn but the fact remains...it HEALTH and "timing" not where they came from that dictates plummage and leg color....and I'll promise you this....if they call BS on me then I'll turn in my Jr. Woodchuck Badge and dig out that "kissing your ass" smiley and post it here with my apology).....

No Pheasants in S.D.? Wonder why then that the Game Commission just today proposed an increase in the limit to FIVE ROOSTERS from Three for the remainder of the season?....AHHHH WAIT...its the Government...they need the revenue from increased license sales that they know will come from late license sales due to increased bag limitis..........crafty bastards.

Enjoy that snow.....

Steve
 
In '04 there were ducks North of me and South of me and some mornings I would see anywhere from 0 to 4 birds. A discouraging yr to say the least.
I am noticing that there are "no bird" complaints from Washington, Minnesota, and New York. However, Missouri, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Kansas, Tennessee, etc seem to be doing OK and I know here in Virginia I'm seeing more birds than I've seen since '03.
Some years we may just live on the wrong lattitude.
 
can tell NORTHERN MALLARDS from Local Mallards by "leg color, body fat and plummage"....
Click to expand...

Yep, that is a reallllllyyyy big myth.
Drake Mallards legs turn red because of increases in hormones, same thing that drives their plumage changes.
Has nothing to do with where they grow up. Has everything to do with age of the bird and even more to do with photo-period.
Older birds get their "color" earlier than hatch-of-the-year birds. But photo-period is the overall driver.
Fat layers are driven by nutrition & photo-period.
 
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