Speaking hypothetically:

Another thing to add. A lot of people around me are in law enforcement, and my son is an LEO. I speak from plenty of experience here. When speaking with a law enforcement officer of any branch- honestly AND humility is EXTREMELY important. I speak to my son often, and this comes up frequently in our conversations. These LEOs are human too, and they understand how things happen. Twice in my hunting, I've had run-ins where I, or my partner were quite, accidentally, in the wrong. Both times we humbly, and apologetically told the truth. Both times, our hands were shook, and we were thanked for our honesty with NO repercussions.

Not saying it is always going to happen, but it's a darn good start.

Jon
 
Wow, I hate to hear you went through that. That LEO surely did use the discretion he clearly should have and that every one I work with would have.
 
One bird over is a small infraction. In your scenario I take all four with me and if a warden checks me and tickets me, oh well, life goes on.

When I am close to the limit I take care in not shooting at closely spaced birds just for the scenario you described. You don't have to take a shot, so if you do and hit two, with one being an accident, it's still a violation. Restraint will keep you out of these situations, but like I said above, if it happens I take the bird and own up to it if asked. At this point in my career I know I'm a law abiding ethical hunter so if something odd happened I'd not compound it with wanton waste.

Eric
 
It would depend on the area I am hunting. We have some law enforcement here that would write the ticket. Most other areas I really think honesty would go a long ways and end of discussion.


Maybe someone on here can explain if game waste or one over the limit is cheaper ticket?

Either way I would not fault a person in this case for either choice made. However, I would give them a hard time as to why they didn't space the birds apart when there is one to go!

Sounds like a good lesson learned either way. Just sounds like inexperienced shooters or overly excited hunters.
 
Carl,
I always try to beat the eagles to "my" downed birds!
And I've had to do just that on a few occasions. I believe eagles, like grizzlies, have "learned" a gunshot means food.
And yes, I always keep the bird. (duck that is)

BUT it does come down to the "letter of the law" vs. the "spirit of the law", and which way is the CO going to reason that day is the question.
I always get nervous chasing down a crippled diver in open water. I shut my motor off, but am still "under forward progress" when I try to kill it. Regs even specify this scenario.
At 66, can fines be deducted from my Social Security check?
Steve
 
The hypothetical person in question did in fact wait for the bird he shot to separate from the other two in the group. Could have shot when they were first over the decoys but may have gotten all three with one shot if he hadn?t waited. Sometimes things work out had planned sometimes they don?t.
 
Exactly why there should be some wiggle room under those circumstances. Most COs will observe a hunting party prior interactions with them.

I was hunting a large point that extends out into Lake Michigan. My hunting partner had flown in from Anchorage to Escanaba to spend a couple of days with his aged god mother, force her to eat goldeneyes, and then fly on to the east coast for an anesthesia conference. We met at a Federal forest ramp site as the snow squalls started rolling in. I had arrived a few minutes early and picked-up "8 dead soldiers" some folks who didn't want to risk a DUI charge had tossed in a pile by one of the parking stops the previous night. As we unloaded, we reached the decision to not slide the canoe out, since the chop was already pretty high, so I grabbed the decoys and shifted them over to a couple of decoy ponchos that would enable us to carry them down the hiking trail that paralleled the shoreline until we found a spot that looked worthwhile to setup at. We found a big cedar snag with a small pocket of quite water within gun range and went to work with the loppers clearing a cubby and enhancing our hide as the storm continued to build. Within the first twenty minutes we were worked twice by a flock of blacks who eventually did what black ducks generally do, ignore our set and slide down the shoreline to land somewhere else. Joe killed a goldeneye hen out of one flock and we doubled-up on another drake and hen pair out of a flock of six. I hadn't had my right knee replaced yet, so the tight quarters of our hide began to wear on my pain threshold to the point where I knew I had to get moving. I finally told Joe I was going to drop back into the woods and see if I could get close to the blacks about 3/8s of a mile down the shoreline. After I left, about half-way to my destination, I heard Joe shoot three times, but couldn't see through the snow squalls what he shot at or how he did. The pocket of sheetwater the blacks landed in held some thin Phragmites sp. and some Sparganium sp. clusters which I thought would be where the blacks were holding so I pinpointed my sneek to this spot...NOPE! They jumped off the far end from some grass clusters. I knocked the closest bird down...with the last of three shots. Chased him into the surf and anchored him prior starting back. I returned to our decoys to find that Joe had taken a couple of wigeon out of a flock that worked the set. After I climbed back into our snag blind we had another five minutes of, "this is where I screwed up" conversations back-and-forth, prior noticing that two COs had just cleared the cedars behind us and were approaching our hide. After checking both our guns, shells and licenses, we were informed that they had been observing us for our entire hunt interval. Initially, I thought that this was a bit odd because of the weather, but then the light went on. They had seen the beer cans sitting in the nose of the canoe sticking out of my truck bed. I asked them if this was why we garnered so much of their interest and time? Yes! They left at the end of our conversation, complimenting me on the decoys and Joe's willingness to fly from Alaska to Michigan to duck hunt.
 
Eagles are eating. It's just how it works. If you could guarantee me a reasonable CO back at the dock/ramp, I would take the bird. That's not guaranteed though. Given how it works I would let nature do it's thing.

Having said that, next time out my personal limit would be one less bird to make right.
 
Carl, I recognize your hesitance...given your profession. A factor not considered or discussed thus far! Our State fish hatchery former manager "retired"...after getting caught giggin' lake whitefish at the bubbler site in the upper harbor a few winters ago.
 
ALL enforcement personnel has the discretion to write , or not,, problem is too many believe your guilty of something anyway, somewhere, at some time, and theyre going to hammer you, you never know what kind your gonna get. Not a risk worth taking.
 
Great topic. Sometimes being ethical conflicts with being legal. I have never purposely gone over the limit. That being said, on the few times where there has been collateral damage the marsh hawks and I have compromised. I get the parts I want, they get the rest.
 
I have done both. I always felt bad about the one left for the eagles.

Take your idea one step further. What if you child is with you? Does it change your decision? Does it make it more clear?
 
Makes it a teaching moment, time to talk about ethics, rules and how we have to sometimes reconcile the two.
 
Carl

FYI, I called a hypothetical game warden and reported the hypothetical hunter. I feel better, hypothetically speaking :)

In actuality getting a ticket for a game violation causes far more strife to a conscientious waterfowler than say a traffic ticket. In many cases the financial cost is just the same but the emotional price paid is much greater because we take the sport seriously and want to do the right thing and don't want that blemish. Many years ago I got a citation (story told here in the past) and it really hurt because I viewed myself as "better" than that. I called a friend who works for the state G&F who simply told me "Don't sweat it and enjoy the rest of the season." Mistakes happen and at this point in my life I feel one mistake certainly doesn't define the type of waterfowler someone is. There are plenty who regularly brake game laws and never get caught while an ethical hunter makes an honest mistake and just happens to get caught. I can see all sides to the dilemma and if I were to live in a state where routine game violations were treated with the severity in Mark and Scott's locations I might feel differently, but here in the South where heavy penalties only apply to the gross violators and those profiting from poaching I'm willing to "take a hit" and do what is right in my mind.
 
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My thoughts with the child...They need to learn about the eagles and ethics. I would take the bird in that case every time without hesitation.

Kids can't process the situation correctly and I believe if you set the wrong example with bending rules it could lead to other issues later on. At least this is how I am teaching my 5 year old.

Also, when I have been checked with the kid it has always been pleasant! I had one check that started out wanting to go through everything and then when my little guy popped out the tone went the way it should go always!
 
Carl

Go pick it up, That's what I would do. Been there many of times with geese, and different ducks. I know what could happen. And the money it might cost if this really ever happen. But I would go get it. I even got stop once by a warden and told him what happen. Can't tell you that they would all let you go . But hopefully it will be a clear sailing home WITHOUT ANY TROUBLE.

Merry Christmas
 
I guided waterfowl in Canada for 12 years. One year I had a group of very nice fellows who could not shoot at all. We did not limit on geese the first 4 days even though they had MORE than ample opportunity. The last day, I recommended that they allow me to do the calling, call the shots and hoped we could get a limit. Up to this point, they had a very marvelous time, were extremely happy and thought my dog was absolutely top notch.
On Friday the birds came 4-6 at a time, worked well, (might have been my calling instead of theirs) and we got within one of a limit after they each had shot 2-3 boxes of shells. Did I say they were horrible shots?
Had a pair come over way at the end of the field. I worked and worked them and got them to circle a few times but they were very wary. Finally decided that a 40 yard pass shot was all we were going to get. I told the hunter on the end to shoot one time and he did. Killed them both stone dead with one shot. Put us one over.
They went nuts!!! What are we going to do?????
I told them that we were going to put all 33 in the trailer and if we got checked, the extra bird was mine. (In Canada, the guide cannot shoot). We drove back to camp with those guys so tense you could have cut the air with a knife. Put all 33 in the cleaning shed, Nothing else said.
That group gave me the biggest tip of my whole career guiding birds up there.
It just is what it is sometimes.
 
years ago a friend shot his limit of birds,as he was walking out his Black lab hunted up a cripple on her own. The ECO met him at his truck and his response of the truth was enough. The first minute usually sets the course on how things are going to go.

My wife works for the dept and I wouldn't ever take the chance,not because I would be ticketed , but the tongue lashing would be brutal
 
S Lewis said:
Carl,
I always try to beat the eagles to "my" downed birds!
And I've had to do just that on a few occasions. I believe eagles, like grizzlies, have "learned" a gunshot means food.
And yes, I always keep the bird. (duck that is)

BUT it does come down to the "letter of the law" vs. the "spirit of the law", and which way is the CO going to reason that day is the question.
I always get nervous chasing down a crippled diver in open water. I shut my motor off, but am still "under forward progress" when I try to kill it. Regs even specify this scenario.
At 66, can fines be deducted from my Social Security check?
Steve

Thankfully, almost all my diver hunting is in Maine's "sea duck zone" (seaward of the most downstream bridge on any tidal river), where cripples may be shot from a boat under power. Winged whistlers are awfully tough birds, and tend to move a long way in a random direction after they surface. Waiting until the boat was at a dead stop would often put them 100 yards or more away.
 
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