The wheels of justice move slowly - today's court review

You know what the say about the man who represents himself in court? He has a fool for a lawyer.
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Mark,

This my friend is probably the best advice you have gotten and you seem to keep ignoring it. You can still do your homework on your case, but the lawyer can also play the game in court as he knows how the system works and how to examine and question the witnesses.

In addition to the fine, do you possibly stand losing your hunting privilges in your home state as well as others for specified amount of time? That does happen sometimes as some states have reciprical agreements if you lose your hunting privilage in one state, you may not hunt in other states either. If so, you long overdue to hire an attorney to represent you in court.

I hope that you win your case....but I think you are in need of some serious legal help.

BTW - I love this quote "Wollner had 2 drake males, 1 hen mallard and another duck Wollner claimed was a cross or hybrid duck." Is there such a thing as drake females? This shows that the guy may not be the best at waterfowl id.
 
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It doesn't matter who said what. What matter is the facts. The way you win the case is to demonstrate that the bird in the states hands is a legal shoot. He said she said will only piss off the judge.

What the judge wants to know is this, "Is that bird a legal shoot?"

The answer seems to hinge on the proper identification. I would hire the most reputable waterfowl biologist you can find to study the bird and make an opinion. If that opinion supports your case then subpoena the waterfowl biologist as an expert witness and have your attorney question him on the stand. His testimony should set you free.

Unless the state can do a better job of identifying the bird/sex then you win. If there is a dispute between your expert and the states expert, the judge will likely throw out the case. Average hunters are not expected to have the same insight and taxonomy skills as an expert and if two experts can't agree on the species/sex of the bird in question then it should be obvious that there is a reasonable doubt and you should be free.

That said, I'm no attorney.. But I have actually played one in a high school play. Once. But seriously, my step dad and dad are both attorneys and this is the sort of logic they perpetually advise. Rely on the evidence, not the circumstances.
 
First off, thank you for all the advice and wisdom - it is appreciated. Here is the situation:

1. Hire an Attorney. Cost a minimum of $1000 around here. I have called.
2. Subpena so and so. This costs quite a bit of money as well.
3. Get an expert. This too costs quite a bit of money. I still have some checking to do on this as I may have found a couple of people who will help me out at minimum if any cost.

Where I work, we have laid of 1000's with many many more to come. I am trying hard to limit my expenses right now and limit the time away from work doing something other than working like a fool. I do not want to be in the next round of layoffs.

I'm not ignoring the advice and if funds were unlimited, I do exactly that. It is important to me to have a clear record believe me as I take quite a bit of pride in it - it is not important to my family that I have a clear record at any cost. Family comes before pride. If I lose, I pay $208 plus court costs if the judge imposes them. Talking with many people in the courthouse it is very rare for the judge to do so and when he does, it is most likely because the defendant was a complete loser or an A-hole.

If I lose round one and something totally unexpected happens, like losing hunting priviledges or being fined $2000, I'll appeal and then hire an attorney. I have that option and have been told so. I've also been told that in WI, my offense is not punishable by losing any hunting rights.

Once again, keep the advice flowing. I am not ignoring any of it, I just have to weigh the various options at this time.

Mark W
 
Dear Mark:

FYI: The local UAW for the Flint GM plant had cheap/free lawyers availible. I believe my union has the same. Just a thought.

Having sat through a few court sessions, I'll tell you the thing that strikes me. The self represented defendents are trying to deal with strong emmotions and often miss out on opportunities to argue the case successfully. Some day I'll post up the case of the Unwanted Chickens...LOL The sad part was that the defendant had some good cause for contesting the citation. She was trying so hard to prove that she should be able to providing pesticide free eggs to her kids that she missed the part about the local official not having clear cut authority in the first place.

I have a feeling everyone would just rather your case just go away. Talk to the prosecuter. He may cut a deal just to avoid the time and effort on his end. You will not get off scott free, but you may keep on hunting and walk out knowing what you'll pay.

Good luck,

Scott
 
I'm with you in spirit. The last time I paid a retainer it was money down the crapper. For what you're up against - the 200 bucks or so, it's all principal. And there is definitley a push back on the new CO writing a citation of that magnitude for something that is so questionable. The DNR should be overseeing the outcome of pushing this - its not just the CO your up against but he has his agency's support to be pursuing this.

As for the "adament" statement: I would not interpret that as "you were a jerk" but that you made a decision on the species and sex and were acting within the law in doing so.

As for the report, I would summarize that in spite of the CO reporting that the sex would need to be tested by others, that you were cited for the violation even though there was no conclusive test conducted. And, that it is still inconclusive. So why was there a citation written? For the "possibility" that this could be a hen mallard?

Probably better that you didn't get a jury - that would be a waste of a lot of peoples time.
 
Hi Mark,

I rarely post anymore but occasionally lurk. Have you eaten any oysters lately? I am going tomorrow night to the place down the street where we ate oysters during one of your visits to New Orleans.

You need to get a lawyer with experience before the judge who will hear the case. Other people here have given you the same advice. Your taking the risk of an appeal is probably not necessary, and candidly, the damage will have already been done by the time an appeal runs its course. Appeallate work is not cheap even for a simple case, and the $1000 quoted will most certainly increase in the event of an appeal.

Finally, you need to consider what, if any, effect this matter could have on job status or marketability. A conviction in many circles is a conviction no matter the crime, and as I am sure you know, background checks, sometimes even for current employees, are the norm these days.

Hope this turns out well for you, but your window of opportunity is quickly closing.

Jefferson
 
Mark:

Have you considered contacting your county's public defender office? I would think you would have the right to an attorney considering this is a criminal citation with the potential penalty of lost hunting privileges and a substantial fine. I don't know if there are any thresholds that need to be met before the county will provide you with an attorney, but I would think you could at least go down to their office and get some free advice. They will, undoubtedly, tell you to plead guilty and pay the fine (they always do), but you could get some honest answers to specific questions about discovery, expert testimony, what judge will hear the case, whether or not good character references will help (from former CO), what motions are appropriate and how to file one, etc..

I hear you on your priorities and I don't think anyone on this site can fault you for putting family first, but I would avoid counting on the appeal process. You will either win or lose in court during your trial and the facts of the case usually can't be appealed afterwards, only procedural issues like discovery or improper conduct of the prosecuting attorney will be reviewed by an appeal judge. You're case appears to stand on disputed facts and once the judge rules the facts are set in stone. You can't appeal a judge's verdict because of a difference of opinion.

Good luck man, on all fronts.

Kevin
 
Jefferson Dye - how the heck you doing? Still driving the Toyota?

I have thought of you and have wondered what you are up to. I miss hearing from you on this site as I always found your comments and stories of much interest. A few of the old guys don't show up here much, you, Rod Johnson, Jim Reinke and so on. Come back and say Hi some more would you?

Why don't you send me you most recent contact info and I'll give you a call. Not looking for free legal advice on this, just would like to catch up.

Thanks for posting and the comments on background checks and so on are appreciated.

Funny thing, I just came back from Austin TX and on the plane was a bunch of Tulane basketball players. I said to the player sitting next to me - "I've been by you school" and thought back to our night on the town. We then discussed the finer details of Jaque Imo's cooking. I can't recall the name of one of the bar you reference but if I recall correctly it was someone's first name like "Rays" of something along those lines.

Take care Jefferson. Hope everything is going great down there for you.

Mark W
 
You need a lawyer.

Get a lawyer who works in that court room, not somebody from out of town.

Get a lawyer who knows the judge who will hear your case.

Get a lawyer.

Good luck
 
Mark --

The Toyota was totaled in the man-made flood after Katrina. My caseload keeps me pretty busy these days. I have experience with two instances in which people with good credentials and experience were denied employment because of misdemeanor convictions. Neither person had an attorney working for them at the time of the conviction. The crimes in both instances were relatively inconsequential (ex: public drunkenness during Mardi Gras) and probably would have been dismissed had an attorney been defending these folks. The embarrassment as well as the expense and uncertainty with the expungement process made not getting a lawyer seem like a foolish move. You could end up spending or losing much more than the $1000 attorney fee necessary for representation.

Jefferson

P.S. -- The jury fee here is $600. I have never heard of such a low jury fee, $36!!!
 
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