They're SO CLOSE!!!

William Reinicke said:
Ya I love that its quiet, probably much easier to drive as well. For reverse, does the whole lower swing around to give full reverse still? Im assuming it does, this is what makes prodrive a prodrive. The 2 BIG BIG reasons I am contemplating this over the freedom outboard is 1) if cost is 15k installed then its only 3k more than the fastest mudmotor out and very well worth the pennies to me and 2) the lower unit is tried and true. The prodrive lower has been around forever you just dont hear about lowers getting popped or beat or bent or anything. So I appreciate that for this setup. The only con, and maybe its not really one, is the welded radiator reservoir under the boat. I am still cringing at that a bit since these are shallow water boats. But I may just give this a shot. You never answered my question though, is your reservoir welded under your boat or is it under your floor in the hull? Anyway you can send a pic of the bottom of the boat while its on the trailer? I am uber curious. Also, CONGRATS on a fantastic boat, im sure its a ton of fun to drive.

What would be fun is if prodrive agrees to put one on my havoc... since havoc has partnered with freedom outboard and freedom is only sold with a havoc right now. Would be kind of cool to have a boat that goes against the grain of how theyre supposed to be sold.
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The freedom outboard is not a mudmotor.

It has a typical outboard lower unit and is not designed to be used in straight mud like a surface drive is.

Freedom no longer makes the surface drive unit they once did, just the closed loop outboard unit now.
 
Clinton John said:
The freedom outboard is not a mudmotor.

It has a typical outboard lower unit and is not designed to be used in straight mud like a surface drive is.

Freedom no longer makes the surface drive unit they once did, just the closed loop outboard unit now.
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They sure market them like a mudmotor. And their videos beat the living snot out of them. They also make a Mudmotor prop for their motors. Not gonna lie, their hose test is impressive.
 
Clinton John said:
My info came straight from Freedom.
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Is that why so many of their videos have been taken down off youtube? They're starting to realize the front of their lower unit isnt beefed up enough to call it a mudmotor and take the same abuse that mudmotors do? In an earlier thread (A few months or so ago) I brought this exact worry up. I have been in a duckboat with a merc 115 that just bumped a rock, at speed, and knocked the whole gearing loose and the lower was toast. I mean 44 mph bump isnt exactly a low impact situation, but honestly I felt I had hit things much harder in my mudrig than that bump.
 
William Reinicke said:
Is that why so many of their videos have been taken down off youtube? They're starting to realize the front of their lower unit isnt beefed up enough to call it a mudmotor and take the same abuse that mudmotors do? In an earlier thread (A few months or so ago) I brought this exact worry up. I have been in a duckboat with a merc 115 that just bumped a rock, at speed, and knocked the whole gearing loose and the lower was toast. I mean 44 mph bump isnt exactly a low impact situation, but honestly I felt I had hit things much harder in my mudrig than that bump.
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I'm not sure about their videos or what not.

I had called them to ask about a 25 horse version of their surface drive. While talking about what they were working on, the guy over at Freedom tells me that. They had did away with their motor with the surface drive lower unit and that their current motor was not designed to be used in straight mud like a typical surface drive.
 
Clinton John said:
I'm not sure about their videos or what not.

I had called them to ask about a 25 horse version of their surface drive. While talking about what they were working on, the guy over at Freedom tells me that. They had did away with their motor with the surface drive lower unit and that their current motor was not designed to be used in straight mud like a typical surface drive.
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Prodrive it is. Hope they will put one on a havoc lol.
 
Unfortunately I heard back from Pro-drive. I reached out about having my boat fitted with one of their new XTF-50's. I was told no. Has to be a true flat bottom. I told them about having the MSTC with reverse chines and there being a spot that is true flat bottom that would fit the reservoir. They swear their reservoir will not break or pop. Im willing to take the risk. Ive sent pics of my hull on where I think it could be fitted. I would need to crawl under the boat and measure to be sure. Even told them I am willing to take the risk on it all, so we will see what they say. I highly doubt they will agree to it at this time. maybe a couple years from now if this is really a truly solid little set up they have. Also, the reservoir and technology should only improve over time. You know MB, and Gatortail will be right behind these guys if they really start moving some units. If I was an Outboard company, I would be trying to figure out how to get behind this pretty quickly. Theres certainly a market for surface drives, and close loop systems.

The price was a bit higher than I expected to have the boat fitted. They gave me a 19.5k price with a $760 install fee.
 
William Reinicke said:
Unfortunately I heard back from Pro-drive. I reached out about having my boat fitted with one of their new XTF-50's. I was told no. Has to be a true flat bottom. I told them about having the MSTC with reverse chines and there being a spot that is true flat bottom that would fit the reservoir. They swear their reservoir will not break or pop. Im willing to take the risk. Ive sent pics of my hull on where I think it could be fitted. I would need to crawl under the boat and measure to be sure. Even told them I am willing to take the risk on it all, so we will see what they say. I highly doubt they will agree to it at this time. maybe a couple years from now if this is really a truly solid little set up they have. Also, the reservoir and technology should only improve over time. You know MB, and Gatortail will be right behind these guys if they really start moving some units. If I was an Outboard company, I would be trying to figure out how to get behind this pretty quickly. Theres certainly a market for surface drives, and close loop systems.

The price was a bit higher than I expected to have the boat fitted. They gave me a 19.5k price with a $760 install fee.
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Gatortail has just came out with their Z drive. Some kind of new transmission system. So they won't be doing anything like the pro drive anytime soon.

MB will never come out with something like the pro drive system.

Honestly the cost they gave you and the fact their system has to be "built in" or welded in to very specific boat types, made by specific boat company's. Means it will never take off and command the surface drive market.

Until some company brings out a surface that is ligiud cooled, outboard quiet, has a total unit weight close to a regular outboard, has all of the loop cooling system built into the unit it's self, can be dropped on basically any boats transom and priced close to current surface drive or outboard units.

What we have had on the market for the last 10 or so years will continue to be the surface drive standard.
 
Clinton John said:
Gatortail has just came out with their Z drive. Some kind of new transmission system. So they won't be doing anything like the pro drive anytime soon.

MB will never come out with something like the pro drive system.

Honestly the cost they gave you and the fact their system has to be "built in" or welded in to very specific boat types, made by specific boat company's. Means it will never take off and command the surface drive market.

Until some company brings out a surface that is ligiud cooled, outboard quiet, has a total unit weight close to a regular outboard, has all of the loop cooling system built into the unit it's self, can be dropped on basically any boats transom and priced close to current surface drive or outboard units.

What we have had on the market for the last 10 or so years will continue to be the surface drive standard.
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And people like you said the same things when surface drives first hit the market. No one will want a lawn mower engine that goes slower than an outboard. Everyone said it made more sense to to put hydro jps with big outboards to get shallow. Look where we are now and the market thats in the surface drive world.

I think boat companies start building something for reservoirs to make these motors universal. Who says you couldnt make a recessed cut out in the bottom of the hull for these reservoirs to be welded into that kept the bottom of the boat completely flat vs protrude out from the bottom? As long as the reservoir is against water and cooling, I think you have a winner. It doesnt necessarily need to be in the water on all 3 sides to keep it cool, just need most surface area in the water to keep it cool. I bet this takes off, and 5 years from now, briggs is gonna be saying it was a good run in the surface drive world.
 
Kris Schaumburg said:
Even without that closed loop, that outboard with that lower would do what 99.7% of people with mudmotors need. People just do extra more stupid stuff because they can.
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I agree with you and i have seen outboards get damn shallow. I know for a fact there are 2 spots where an outboard cannot get that I love to hunt. Trust me Ive tried, and ive rebuilt lowers. Its unfortunate because if it werent for these holes, I wouldnt even own a surface drive.
 
William Reinicke said:
And people like you said the same things when surface drives first hit the market. No one will want a lawn mower engine that goes slower than an outboard. Everyone said it made more sense to to put hydro jps with big outboards to get shallow. Look where we are now and the market thats in the surface drive world.

I think boat companies start building something for reservoirs to make these motors universal. Who says you couldnt make a recessed cut out in the bottom of the hull for these reservoirs to be welded into that kept the bottom of the boat completely flat vs protrude out from the bottom? As long as the reservoir is against water and cooling, I think you have a winner. It doesnt necessarily need to be in the water on all 3 sides to keep it cool, just need most surface area in the water to keep it cool. I bet this takes off, and 5 years from now, briggs is gonna be saying it was a good run in the surface drive world.
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Lol. It won't.
 
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