Tod,

Bob B

Bob B

Well-known member
PM from You.
"Bob, I knew you would take that personally, but you were flat out wrong about a very basic thing closely related to what you posted as expert advice about two days ago. You held your expertise up as an argument.

Any consolation, if I ever made a mistake like that on the open forum 27 guys would jump on me. Heck, I'll probably get jumped on just pointing out your error. "

Tod,
polly is the industry standard and is not by any means the best but your insurance adjuster will specify it if you damage your glass boat if that is what it was built with.

All three local glass experts use it daily to do just these kinds of repairs. I have made parts and moved thru hulls with it.
Also have vinal ester for many jobs. And epoxy. But typ for ultra high end ultra light race sail boats.

My experience is that I would not mix epoxy into a glass boat repair unless wood was part of it.
Just my experience.
If this bothers you feel free to do otherwise. I am sure it will work.


The last 4 major insurance bottom repairs(36 to 48 feet) in the building I work in, due to grounding on rocks, were inspected by lic. marine surveyors and they all signed off on the glass work as it went in in stages. Secondary bonding was the primary means of scarfing in the repairs to the damaged areas using a cloth list to match the original from the Builder and the polly resin.

If this is a problem I will mention it next time I attend the IBEX conference in KY to the surveyors who guide us.

Bob
 
Last edited:
PM from You.
"Bob, I knew you would take that personally, but you were flat out wrong about a very basic thing closely related to what you posted as expert advice about two days ago. You held your expertise up as an argument.

Any consolation, if I ever made a mistake like that on the open forum 27 guys would jump on me. Heck, I'll probably get jumped on just pointing out your error. "

Tod,
polly is the industry standard and is not by any means the best but your insurance adjuster will specify it if you damage your glass boat if that is what it was built with.

All three local glass experts use it daily to do just these kinds of repairs. I have made parts and moved thru hulls with it.
Also have vinal ester for many jobs. And epoxy. But typ for ultra high end ultra light race sail boats.

My experience is that I would not mix epoxy into a glass boat repair unless wood was part of it.
Just my experience.
If this bothers you feel free to do otherwise. I am sure it will work.


The last 4 major insurance bottom repairs(36 to 48 feet) in the building I work in, due to grounding on rocks, were inspected by lic. marine surveyors and they all signed off on the glass work as it went in in stages. Secondary bonding was the primary means of scarfing in the repairs to the damaged areas using a cloth list to match the original from the Builder and the polly resin.

If this is a problem I will mention it next time I attend the IBEX conference in KY to the surveyors who guide us.

Bob
Click to expand...


Bob, your statement was just plain incorrect, and contradicted and corrected by others - I just finely honed the point. There is no splitting words here or finessing what you said, you made a clear statement about what was to be used and why and were wrong, just plain wrong.

You may not confuse the argument with the excuse that poly is commonly used - that is an irrelevant aside in relation to what you said. As a further aside, I also said that poly is commonly used for repairs, so why are you trying to argue the same point that I made to Ed several hours ago?

I'll warn you that people start posting the contents of PMs (which means "private messages" as in private - not to be shared) just before they go off the deep end. In your case I'm wondering if you may have already jumped. Best wishes Bob, I still owe you a big favor or two. If you can cool down and get over it PM me one day, I'd still like to see the dogs together in action.

T
 
Tod,
there are 145(+\-) boats in the yard I work in all made of glass. I would guess upwards of 70 to 80+ have glass repairs. Some Major, some gelcoat nicks, or bottom scuffs.
Unless the owner pays out of his own pocket or the boat was built with vinalester resin or epoxy the repair is made with Poly most times.
On stuff where it is a color match issue, that is the choice of the Pro subcontractor who does most of it for us, and he is the best in the area for color match that lasts. His choice. If it is minor and dosnt require a structural sign off for the insurance the customer is give the choice to decide.
If it is a big job the insurance company sends an adjuster who is almost always a lic marine surveyor and many times a engineer. We always encourage our customer to hire their own lic. surveyor to work for them. We then consult the OEM first if still in operation, and if not, do destructive core drill testing to best ID the fabric layers and match them. We use the recommendation of the OEM. The Lic. surveyors decide the best course to follow to conduct the repair if the OEM is gone. The customer has final say with the dollars allotted for the repair and can choose to over spend the settlement claim if they like(Most do this, but on electronics or paint).
Long story short. Most of the jobs mentioned above have been done with the poly that is "Wrong" or "Just Wrong"
I dont do much white suit and mask grinding because I am usually asked to get the destroyed transmission, engine mounts, shafting, struts and rudders back in working condition, in a state as good or better than new, after the boat has been on the rocks or in a collision.
But I watch the work and the ($)numbers every day and do many small repairs myself in glass including building molds, engine beds and making parts.
It is my Job to back this work up and stand by it.
My Boss makes a lot of money paying me and others to do it and our customers are usually very happy. And the surveyors sign off on it for the checks to clear.
That is the long story, and any one who is on this board is always welcome to stop by my work just as you have to see what we do.
We are open all year except for a week at christmas and have a full barn of winter projects.
We are turning away work for the winter of 2011\12.
Chuck is welcome to open my PM's which are all there from the beginning. I stand by them in public, just like my posts. and my work.
It is not required that any one use the replies in any of my posts and I dont expect them to. But I do answer with what has worked and what has not worked.

For the original question, on an older hull, with two thin cuts shown, fast cure 5200 squeezed in the cracks, smeared over, and allowed to cure will keep it floating and I bet will work a long time. I have seen it done. Simple and quick, but I thought it was a bit risky to suggest since I only have an example of 1 or 2, and no pictures to back it up. Half A$$ed, but it will work.

I will think a lot about what I say so I dont get it wrong again.

Bob
 
Chuck is welcome to open my PM's which are all there from the beginning.

Bob
Click to expand...


HELLO...couldn't do that even if I wanted, not sure where you got the idea that I could, or would, but let's dismiss that notion.

Second, Bob, by taking a PM and posting it in public, you are basically welcoming up a no holds barred, iron cage, fight to the death. I read through what you posted, which was basically a continuation of the ongoing public discussion, and let it go. Had it been a PM of a more personal nature, I would have deleted the whole thing.

As it stands, I am going to suggest you guys agree to disagree. Tod has posted here and told me privately that he likes you as a person and thinks you are a great guy, but flat out disagrees with you...and aparently you him. I'm not going to "officially" stop this, but I will "officially" suggest you both cool off on this particular subject. You are BOTH long time posters here and BOTH contribute great information to the community. I consider you both friends and would hate to see this cause either of you to visit us on a less frequent basis.

Best
Chuck
 
Tod,
there are 145(+\-) boats in the yard I work in all made of glass. I would guess upwards of 70 to 80+ have glass repairs. Some Major, some gelcoat nicks, or bottom scuffs.
Unless the owner pays out of his own pocket or the boat was built with vinalester resin or epoxy the repair is made with Poly most times.
On stuff where it is a color match issue, that is the choice of the Pro subcontractor who does most of it for us, and he is the best in the area for color match that lasts. His choice. If it is minor and dosnt require a structural sign off for the insurance the customer is give the choice to decide.
If it is a big job the insurance company sends an adjuster who is almost always a lic marine surveyor and many times a engineer. We always encourage our customer to hire their own lic. surveyor to work for them. We then consult the OEM first if still in operation, and if not, do destructive core drill testing to best ID the fabric layers and match them. We use the recommendation of the OEM. The Lic. surveyors decide the best course to follow to conduct the repair if the OEM is gone. The customer has final say with the dollars allotted for the repair and can choose to over spend the settlement claim if they like(Most do this, but on electronics or paint).
Long story short. Most of the jobs mentioned above have been done with the poly that is "Wrong" or "Just Wrong"
I dont do much white suit and mask grinding because I am usually asked to get the destroyed transmission, engine mounts, shafting, struts and rudders back in working condition, in a state as good or better than new, after the boat has been on the rocks or in a collision.
But I watch the work and the ($)numbers every day and do many small repairs myself in glass including building molds, engine beds and making parts.
It is my Job to back this work up and stand by it.
My Boss makes a lot of money paying me and others to do it and our customers are usually very happy. And the surveyors sign off on it for the checks to clear.
That is the long story, and any one who is on this board is always welcome to stop by my work just as you have to see what we do.
We are open all year except for a week at christmas and have a full barn of winter projects.
We are turning away work for the winter of 2011\12.
Chuck is welcome to open my PM's which are all there from the beginning. I stand by them in public, just like my posts. and my work.
It is not required that any one use the replies in any of my posts and I dont expect them to. But I do answer with what has worked and what has not worked.

For the original question, on an older hull, with two thin cuts shown, fast cure 5200 squeezed in the cracks, smeared over, and allowed to cure will keep it floating and I bet will work a long time. I have seen it done. Simple and quick, but I thought it was a bit risky to suggest since I only have an example of 1 or 2, and no pictures to back it up. Half A$$ed, but it will work.

I will think a lot about what I say so I dont get it wrong again.

Bob
Click to expand...


It is you saying that epoxy is only for wood that is wrong, you implied it strongly in your first post in the thread and said it straight up above. I'm sure you could fix that just fine with poly, I know most repairs are made with it. Ed has epoxy on order. If he wants to use poly, I'll order him some.
 
Chuck is welcome to open my PM's which are all there from the beginning.

Bob
Click to expand...


HELLO...couldn't do that even if I wanted, not sure where you got the idea that I could, or would, but let's dismiss that notion.

Second, Bob, by taking a PM and posting it in public, you are basically welcoming up a no holds barred, iron cage, fight to the death. I read through what you posted, which was basically a continuation of the ongoing public discussion, and let it go. Had it been a PM of a more personal nature, I would have deleted the whole thing.

As it stands, I am going to suggest you guys agree to disagree. Tod has posted here and told me privately that he likes you as a person and thinks you are a great guy, but flat out disagrees with you...and aparently you him. I'm not going to "officially" stop this, but I will "officially" suggest you both cool off on this particular subject. You are BOTH long time posters here and BOTH contribute great information to the community. I consider you both friends and would hate to see this cause either of you to visit us on a less frequent basis.

Best
Chuck
Click to expand...


Didn't see this before I posted. I'm glad I didn't go with the "eat shit and die" option - I would have looked like a real ass. Looks like I missed an opportunity for a moderator sanctioned "no holds barred" attack. Chuck, can I get a rain check for that to use in the future?
 
Tod,
here is what I posted,
"Ed,
use vinal ester resin or polyester resin to do a pure glass fabric repair. If you are working with a mix of wood and cloth, epoxy is much better over the wood at holding the cloth to it and will stick to the fiberglass. "

It says epoxy sticks much better to wood and will stick to the glass. The epoxy is not in the first sentence because the Professionals glass repair guys, generally do not use it for that even though it works, on an all glass repair. I have been told this is because a later repair that may be more major will now require epoxy unless the whole job from before is ground out because the polly or vinalester will not work well over an epoxy. The Gougon marketing has been very effective at promoting their product for glass repair with their education work. But in the region I work in it is not that common among the paid guys for "glass only repair work".
I left out the part about epoxy sticks to carbon fiber and other exotic materials and works great in a SCRIMPED bag pull hull mold because the post was about an older runabout.
If you are asking about the mat and the seizing question, that came from two things. One, we just dont see mat used with epoxy because weight is almost always an issue when epoxy is being used(Ultra Light Parts)(Wood Boat Parts), and Two, my brother in law, who is a PHD in chemical materials properties and specializes in epoxy, told me at thanksgiving that the seizing glue that holds the mat strands together in a mat fabric roll wont break down without the MEK reaction going off and would make a mess rolling it out without a bag.
I am very glad to have learned that not to be the case based on field use so cloth does not have to be ground up fairing a small part.
I hope that clarifies what you are referring to.


This is a bit of a large disagreement between us but in no way has Tod changed my mind about him being welcome on any hunt or at my table any time. Based on knowing him only from his work on this forum and a boat ride.

Ed L
thanks for letting us in your sand box of a post. ;)
 
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