Too close??
- Thread starter Blake K
- Start date
I sense I am in the minority here, but I don't see any legal issues. These sound to me like hunters who are either jerks or inexperienced--maybe both.
Setting up within 200 yards is rude and "too close", but from posts I've seen here many times, a lot of us end up hunting that close to other parties in hard-hunted areas. Unless there is a law against it--and I understand some jurisdictions do have laws about how close parties may be to each other or to an established blind--there's no legal issue involved.
"Voicing displeasure" is not illegal or trespassing--good thing for me on frustrating days in the blind! Neither is shooting at birds that are out of range, which is a good thing for every newby hunter who does not have the good fortune to have somebody experienced calling shots for him or her. Most of us eventually learn some restraint, but there are some who never do.
The only possible violation I see is shooting at birds in the air over someone else's property. I'm not sure what the law is about that. Where I hunt, the law would be clear that the game was owned by the public; the land was owned by the landowner. Legal ownership of the water over the land and the air over the land are complicated, I suspect, and probably need a good property lawyer who knows your local law to sort out. If they'd hit a bird in the air and walked onto your property to recover it, they almost certainly would have been trespassing, depending on the law in your state. (In my state, you are allowed to cross property lines to recover game that was wounded elsewhere, though this primarily relates to tracking wounded large game and I've never seen the law invoked for waterfowling.) If they'd hit a bird in the air and it dropped onto the water where they could recover it by boat or a retriever, they might or might not have the right to navigate to recover the bird. Again, where I live, they would be able to recover the bird if it fell in "navigable waters", which includes most rivers, all tidal areas, and most lakes and ponds. The law may be different where you are.
The solution of leasing the hunting rights from your neighbor to keep out the riff-raff seems like the best solution for you. Over time, the more folks who do that, the more crowded and unpleasant the remaining areas open to the public become. In the long run, this reduces both the number of waterfowlers and public support for waterfowl hunting. Slob hunters do the same. I'm not sure where the appropriate balance point is.
This is why I am VERY glad to live in a rural state with liberal laws about public access to the water and a strong voluntary tradition of keeping private land open for sportsmen. I realize not everyone is so fortunate, and what works here given our traditions might not be possible in more crowded areas with different history and laws.
I also understand that my perception of this is colored by my family history. I am here in part because a great great great grandfather was forced to leave England after poaching on the King's land. My uncle still has the circa-1850 fowling piece that was used in the crime. The "public trust doctrine" of access to the water and to fish and game, which is somewhat unique in the US, especially as compared to Europe, has always been very important in my family.
Sorry for the long ramble--it's a snow day here, and most of New England is pretty much shut down while we wait for 2+ feet of forecast snow, and I don't have much to do!
Setting up within 200 yards is rude and "too close", but from posts I've seen here many times, a lot of us end up hunting that close to other parties in hard-hunted areas. Unless there is a law against it--and I understand some jurisdictions do have laws about how close parties may be to each other or to an established blind--there's no legal issue involved.
"Voicing displeasure" is not illegal or trespassing--good thing for me on frustrating days in the blind! Neither is shooting at birds that are out of range, which is a good thing for every newby hunter who does not have the good fortune to have somebody experienced calling shots for him or her. Most of us eventually learn some restraint, but there are some who never do.
The only possible violation I see is shooting at birds in the air over someone else's property. I'm not sure what the law is about that. Where I hunt, the law would be clear that the game was owned by the public; the land was owned by the landowner. Legal ownership of the water over the land and the air over the land are complicated, I suspect, and probably need a good property lawyer who knows your local law to sort out. If they'd hit a bird in the air and walked onto your property to recover it, they almost certainly would have been trespassing, depending on the law in your state. (In my state, you are allowed to cross property lines to recover game that was wounded elsewhere, though this primarily relates to tracking wounded large game and I've never seen the law invoked for waterfowling.) If they'd hit a bird in the air and it dropped onto the water where they could recover it by boat or a retriever, they might or might not have the right to navigate to recover the bird. Again, where I live, they would be able to recover the bird if it fell in "navigable waters", which includes most rivers, all tidal areas, and most lakes and ponds. The law may be different where you are.
The solution of leasing the hunting rights from your neighbor to keep out the riff-raff seems like the best solution for you. Over time, the more folks who do that, the more crowded and unpleasant the remaining areas open to the public become. In the long run, this reduces both the number of waterfowlers and public support for waterfowl hunting. Slob hunters do the same. I'm not sure where the appropriate balance point is.
This is why I am VERY glad to live in a rural state with liberal laws about public access to the water and a strong voluntary tradition of keeping private land open for sportsmen. I realize not everyone is so fortunate, and what works here given our traditions might not be possible in more crowded areas with different history and laws.
I also understand that my perception of this is colored by my family history. I am here in part because a great great great grandfather was forced to leave England after poaching on the King's land. My uncle still has the circa-1850 fowling piece that was used in the crime. The "public trust doctrine" of access to the water and to fish and game, which is somewhat unique in the US, especially as compared to Europe, has always been very important in my family.
Sorry for the long ramble--it's a snow day here, and most of New England is pretty much shut down while we wait for 2+ feet of forecast snow, and I don't have much to do!
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
I have not read all the responses but will chime in. I was taught You Ask Permission before you hunt, no if, ands or buts. Back in the day is was not a problem, and we always brought the landowner a gift at Thanksgiving. Also offered to share our kill if they so desired to have some.
Now POSTED is the new sign of hunting & fishing. Antler restrictions and the quest for Big Bucks has tied up more land then ever before. And when the owners are asked if I can hunt waterfowl or small game? "No we don't want OUR Deer disturbed and pushed off our property".
New Age Deer "hunting" has done more to limit and depress small game and waterfowl hunting than anything except habitat loss. That's why public areas are so jammed with hunters. It's not more hunters, but less places to Hunt.
It will not get better, and if you own, or lease land expect trespassers and poachers. Hunting is no longer blue collar, it's Big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and the crap on TV just makes it worse...
I have no regrets of being as old as I am. I've enjoyed some wonderful hunts for just a handshake, and then later handing over some still warm birds (or returning with plucked ones).
Now POSTED is the new sign of hunting & fishing. Antler restrictions and the quest for Big Bucks has tied up more land then ever before. And when the owners are asked if I can hunt waterfowl or small game? "No we don't want OUR Deer disturbed and pushed off our property".
New Age Deer "hunting" has done more to limit and depress small game and waterfowl hunting than anything except habitat loss. That's why public areas are so jammed with hunters. It's not more hunters, but less places to Hunt.
It will not get better, and if you own, or lease land expect trespassers and poachers. Hunting is no longer blue collar, it's Big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and the crap on TV just makes it worse...
I have no regrets of being as old as I am. I've enjoyed some wonderful hunts for just a handshake, and then later handing over some still warm birds (or returning with plucked ones).
John Fraser
Well-known member
Last edited:
I gave up hunting deer on public land 15 years ago, I own 3 properties and am a member of a club which leases 6 properties totaling 1500 acres. I do duck hunt public land and have all the same problems we all encounter.
I use to allow some trapping until things started disappearing , Duck boat,aluminum oars to my old alumicraft .Now everything is posted and once you are trespassing you'll find the signs, "trespassers will be shot survivors will be shot again".
I use to allow some trapping until things started disappearing , Duck boat,aluminum oars to my old alumicraft .Now everything is posted and once you are trespassing you'll find the signs, "trespassers will be shot survivors will be shot again".
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
And there ya go.... a bright future for hunting, trapping and fishin'? No need to fear the anti's WE ARE THE PROBLEM, and by WE I include myself. How do we reverse this, or IS it already to late?
The tree stands, etc. that are stolen from where I hunt are taken by Drug Users, walkin' or on ATV's. Seems like there are many more Non hunters, fishermen and trappers cruising around than ever before. Easy pickings, new age hunters use lots of expensive stuff, and hey WE advertise by slathering our vehicles with all kinds stickers. DUH!
The tree stands, etc. that are stolen from where I hunt are taken by Drug Users, walkin' or on ATV's. Seems like there are many more Non hunters, fishermen and trappers cruising around than ever before. Easy pickings, new age hunters use lots of expensive stuff, and hey WE advertise by slathering our vehicles with all kinds stickers. DUH!
noweil Mike
Well-known member
"New Age Deer "hunting" has done more to limit and depress small game and waterfowl hunting than anything except habitat loss. That's why public areas are so jammed with hunters. It's not more hunters, but less places to Hunt."
Amen to that. With 4 gun seasons, deer hunting rules the land in much of the state. They have extended rabbit season so you can still shoot a few after deer is over for the year.
Amen to that. With 4 gun seasons, deer hunting rules the land in much of the state. They have extended rabbit season so you can still shoot a few after deer is over for the year.