Vinegar for Epoxy residue "clean-up" on tools, etc.
- Thread starter RLLigman
- Start date
Vinegar works very well on uncured epoxy, as good as acetone. Acetone will strip your skin of oils that provide some barrier to epoxy. I don't think vinegar does, at least not like acetone, so vinegar is a little better at keeping epoxy from getting in your system which leads to becoming sensitized to it.
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Yes, used widely. Many keep a bucket of vinegar to dump tools in, it will even remove day or two old epoxy (i.e., not FULLY cured, but hard (also doesn't have to be 100% strength). The other day I was glassing and dumped a bunch of epoxy on the driveway and just poured vinegar on the set up spots when done and then pressure washed - no epoxy residue. I'm nervous about getting it near a work in progress because it works so well on the epoxy.
As a spontaneous reaction, at some dilution level a vinegar/water solution would enable Gibbs free energy law to "kick in", moving the reaction rate to equilibrium.
Eric, sensitization involves an autoimmune response where the body's immune system perceives a compound (usually a protein) as an antigen, developing antibodies and compliment factor, as well as huge cascade of catecholomines. I doubt this involves a threshold of concentration within tissues to be initiated for the majority of folks, just those with abnormal immune systems prone to anaphylxis.
Eric, sensitization involves an autoimmune response where the body's immune system perceives a compound (usually a protein) as an antigen, developing antibodies and compliment factor, as well as huge cascade of catecholomines. I doubt this involves a threshold of concentration within tissues to be initiated for the majority of folks, just those with abnormal immune systems prone to anaphylxis.
All I know is what I've read from professional boatbuilders and epoxy manufacturers. They say you don't want it on your skin, that barrier creams are recommended in addition to gloves, long sleeves, etc,, acetone applied to the skin to remove epoxy removes natural barriers, and a user can become sensitized due to overexposure. You say people either are predisposed or not. I won't argue that but common sense tells me the less you get it on you the less likely you are to develop problems if you are one of the predisposed.
Steve Steffy
Well-known member
So what you guys are saying is I can quit swiping my wife's finger nail polish remover and start eyeballing her vinegar instead?
Skip the nail polish and look for a douche bottle 
Thanks, Lou, I am pretty sure I have a pint sitting on the shelf in the garage over my xc ski waxing bench. If, yes, I will give it a try.
I have always stayed with polyester resin, because I am familiar with it and haven't needed to do anything major in years other than repair an aft deck./cowling junction on my Poke boat. Because I would be doing a lot of work with my head and arm inside the bow storage compartment as I reworked it, I decided to use epoxy resin per Steve Sanford's positive comments on U.S. Composites product. Nice to have a longer work time and not have to wear a respirator( I have a beard, so I have to grease my face and tighten it up really well) in these temperatures. I also wanted a resin that was fully waterproof.
I have always stayed with polyester resin, because I am familiar with it and haven't needed to do anything major in years other than repair an aft deck./cowling junction on my Poke boat. Because I would be doing a lot of work with my head and arm inside the bow storage compartment as I reworked it, I decided to use epoxy resin per Steve Sanford's positive comments on U.S. Composites product. Nice to have a longer work time and not have to wear a respirator( I have a beard, so I have to grease my face and tighten it up really well) in these temperatures. I also wanted a resin that was fully waterproof.
Todd, I had a 3" china bristle throw-away brush that I was using to push resin in and air out on the 90 degree corners. I let it harden to a point where it was barely tacky and then immersed it in vinegar-never dissolved any resin in tow hours of soak time.
I will send the vinegar solution I for your use the next time you make salad dressing...I'll even pay the shipping cost!
I will send the vinegar solution I for your use the next time you make salad dressing...I'll even pay the shipping cost!
I let it soak overnight; resin is discolored(milky) and is a bit tacky, but still an intact solid.
I assume vinegar hydrolyzes the epoxide-amine bonds on the exterior of the polymer, resulting in a compound that is hydrophylic. Since vinegar is a dilute glacial acetic acid/distilled water solution (probably 5-7% glacial acetic acid), eventually the Gibbs free energy equation mechanics move the solution to equilibrium, halting the reaction.
I assume vinegar hydrolyzes the epoxide-amine bonds on the exterior of the polymer, resulting in a compound that is hydrophylic. Since vinegar is a dilute glacial acetic acid/distilled water solution (probably 5-7% glacial acetic acid), eventually the Gibbs free energy equation mechanics move the solution to equilibrium, halting the reaction.
Just to be clear, getting acetone on my skin wasn't the concern I expressed above. It is getting epoxy on my skin that I like to avoid.
Actually, when I read all the warnings and disclaimers on an acetone can, I am certain that skin exposure is incredibly dangerous, even for a low BP compound like this. While I don't intend to bathe in it, I just thought that others would appreciate additional background info. on exposure risks with use of this solvent.
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I know Eric is familiar with this, but I'll share for others... There is a concern that by using a solvent to remove epoxy from the skin that it increases the likelihood of sensitization. The solvent dissolves the epoxy and, the theory goes, makes it more likely to penetrate the skin. Clean up with a solvent in my opinion also spreads the epoxy around on your skin, so rather than splotches of epoxy on small parts, you have a thin coating over a much larger area. I've read enough anecdotal accounts of epoxy sensitization to believe that it happens, but it is unclear to me how it happens. Likely sanding dust is a good way to expose yourself since epoxy doesn't fully cure for days to weeks and it is common to sand day old epoxy to top coat. Either way, I prefer not to get epoxy on the skin in the first place by wearing gloves and if I use a solvent to remove it, I will pick the most safe solvent I have which is usually ETOH or MEOH, but I always have a couple gallons of Acetone on hand and sometimes use it.
Information on sensitization from West...
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/health-effects-from-overexposure-to-epoxy/
If you assume movement through cell membranes of epoxy resin in solution to be concentration gradient driven and not via an active transport mechanism. Employing a solvent with the lowest BP would actually lower the solvent's concentration gradient in the shortest interval of time, leaving the solute behind in a thin layer, but also diminishing its penetration ability. The ability of ethanol or methanol to function "better" as clean-up solvents would be a consequence of their abilities to "hold" the solute longer, allowing it to be wiped off more effectively, but also enabling the solution to penetrate more membranes or move more molecules through the bimolecular phospho-lipid protein mosaic of a cell membrane, due to maintenance of the concentration gradient for a longer interval.
Or, why low dilute glacial acetic acid may be the best way to go, since hydrolysis reactions run VERY quickly, as well as allowing more epoxy residue removal via towel use. Lower residue would equate to lower bioaccumulation and potential for sensitivity reaction via contact dermatitis...
Or, why low dilute glacial acetic acid may be the best way to go, since hydrolysis reactions run VERY quickly, as well as allowing more epoxy residue removal via towel use. Lower residue would equate to lower bioaccumulation and potential for sensitivity reaction via contact dermatitis...
rich scheffer
Well-known member
I have been building wood and epoxy boats for 35 years, have seen lots of sensitivity issues among our workers. If you get the "Rash" find a different job, your body is telling you something! We have done a lot of research on this. and found out that it is not the resin that's toxic, but the hardner. My guys wash up with that gritty orange hand soap they sell in the auto parts stores. Most other clean up jobs are done with denatured alcohol. Acetone is for polyester. Rich
When I say safety of a solvent, I'm referring to in the absence of epoxy, I would rather bathe in ETOH than Acetone (same goes for breathing in an enclosed space). I don't know if the solvent helping penetration of epoxy into the body theory is valid, but that is for sure brought up at times. Just avoiding skin contact is my preference, but I don't get super caught up in it and often get it on me, but I always wear gloves at least.
I seldom use vinegar to clean my hands, but use it to rescue tools. If I'm ragging off a tool or body part, I usually use a solvent, usually ETOH
As far as solvents to use for clean up, Acetone is most aggressive in my mind to cut it, but that just be my perception. Its rapid evaporation sure does not lend to longevity on a rag or paper towel, which is another reason to use ETOH.