waterfowl gun

I shoot and 870 but the guy I hunt with about 75% of the time used to shoot an SBE then he got an SBEII. From what i have seen both have been temperamental with certian load / choke combinations. I have gotten a few free boxes of shells out of the deals becasue when he has trouble he dumps them on me. I couldn't tell you what those combo are but I can tell you he gets pretty ticked when it doesn't work. I have yet to have a falure in my 870 that wasn't operator error and it get abused. One thing to note about the SBE's. We hunt the salt a bit and if the brass get a hint of rust on them which can happen just looking at the salt water they will jam. I was able to get quit a few shells that way too. He has historically shot Kents but is looking for another load that won't corrode so easily.
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not to be rude... but BS... the choke has nothing to do with any gun being tempermental. The pattern, yes, but not cycling..... and many guns have issues with different brands of shells, since not all hulls are sized the same.

and fyi ... all guns with enough rust will have issues.

anyway... I used to have a 390... loved it till I got my SBE... my wife has a AL391... she loves it... either way... the thing I don't like about the Beretta's is that their stocks are so big and bulky. the SBE is a dream, and always shoots.. in the sand, sub zero temps and salt... even as a paddle...
 
Wendell, invite me out that way if you want to play with an early SBE 1, dating back to 96/97 when H&K was importing them. It's my primary waterfowl gun and as you saw, I hunt it in Salt as well as sweet water, snow, rain & even sandy conditions, temperatures down below zero F. It has not been perfect by any stretch of imagination. I shoot cheap shells and when too much crud builds up in the action she starts to baulk. The early design ejector failed and even more serious, the guide pin that rotates the bolt failed. The ejector was redesigned on the later SBE1s and I assume is in the 2s. She's had over a thousand rounds of 3.5" shells through her, even more 3" shells and loads of trap shells. All function fine the vast majority of time. However never smack the butt stock cause she can and will drop out of battery for the big CLICK. And not to start a fight but anyone who has either a pump or semi auto that has never had a function issue obviously doesn't hunt the conditions my Benelli has been subjected to.

Scott Scott, if you don't want to start a fight, then don't say someting like that. I doubt that you have hunted in any worse conditions that half of the people on this site. My Model 12 has never had a cycling issue in any conditions related to waterfowling since 1937 when my grandfather bought it. He hunted it from Canada to Pennsylvania and I've hunted it from New York to North Carolina. I still hunt it a couple of time each season. Did I mention it's a 16 Ga? I'm not trying to start a fight either, but waterfowling by any defintion means harsh conditions. Ask Wiz Boz.
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Howard,

Please note my wording it was carefully chosen, "[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]has been subjected to". I'm certainly including human and canine abuse. If your only taking that model 12 out a couple of times a year I suspect that you treat it with the respect it deserves. I strongly suspect that if it came hunting with me as my primary shotgun for 300 hunts it will have had an issue or two.

Scott
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Beretta Extrema or for nostalgia and A-5. IMHO nothing sounds as solid as an A-5 shen you push the bolt release.
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Yeah man... that *clang* is serious, like a the gate of a medieval fortress closing or something :)
 
Gray, I love my A-5 Magnum.... that is my duck gun, but hate to take it to the salt water, beause it is a PITA to clean properly. Having to drive out roll pins without scratching anything is tough. I put a plastic stock on mine, as I could not afford to replace the fancy walnut stocks each season. Shoots any 3" mag a put in it, without fail. Would love to find one that has been neglected and is rusty to send out to be dipped to use in the salt.....
 
Jeff,

You know, I have never taken the butt stock off to clean the spring & tube. I just depress the spring & spray it out with WD40/Carb Cleaner and then drip some oil down in there & work the spring back & forth.
What do you use to take it off?
Thanks!
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Carl: Maybe I have to try the spray and drip technique. On mine (black plastic stock) there are two screws that hold in the recoil pad. Back those out, remove the pad, and there is a single nut on a long bolt inside the stock. I use a long reach socket driver to take that out, then the stock comes right off. there is a stock shim in there--make sure it goes back in the same way it came out or you'll change drop and cast.

I'm trying to remember the fitting on the end of the recoil tube. I think the long nut for the stock has a flattened end, and you can unscrew it from the recoil tube with a pair of pliers, vice grips, or the right sized wrench. (Lesson learned--when you do this, do it in the garage, as the recoil spring will come flying out. It is VERY VERY bad if this lands on the carpet in the living room . . . . .) You can stick a nail or a small screwdriver though a hole in the recoil tube to prevent the spring from springing.

Every time I've done it, that spring has been literally caked with dirt, rust and grime. I soak it in kerosene overnight then wipe it clean, and clean the recoil tube the same way I'd clean a barrel. A 20 gauge bore brush is a little tight and scrubs well. The only hard part is stuffing that spring back into the recoil tube and getting the bolt/cap screwed back in.

It's truly amazing how much grime gets in there, but I have to admit that I never had any problems until my third season with the gun, and then only on a day with the air temp down around 10*F. My theory is that the accumulated grime, salt and dust attract moisture, things get a little gummy, and then the gum freezes around the spring. The gun still cycles, and may even eject the spent shell, but not with enough recoil to load the second shot from the magazine. Since I realized what was causing this, I've cleaned the recoil tube and spring at the beginning of every season, and then again around Thanksgiving when we begin to get some really cold mornings. Down your way, you simply may not encounter the conditions that cause me problems.
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Jeff,

You know, I have never taken the butt stock off to clean the spring & tube. I just depress the spring & spray it out with WD40/Carb Cleaner and then drip some oil down in there & work the spring back & forth.
What do you use to take it off?
Thanks!

Carl: Maybe I have to try the spray and drip technique. On mine (black plastic stock) there are two screws that hold in the recoil pad. Back those out, remove the pad, and there is a single nut on a long bolt inside the stock. I use a long reach socket driver to take that out, then the stock comes right off. there is a stock shim in there--make sure it goes back in the same way it came out or you'll change drop and cast.

I'm trying to remember the fitting on the end of the recoil tube. I think the long nut for the stock has a flattened end, and you can unscrew it from the recoil tube with a pair of pliers, vice grips, or the right sized wrench. (Lesson learned--when you do this, do it in the garage, as the recoil spring will come flying out. It is VERY VERY bad if this lands on the carpet in the living room . . . . .) You can stick a nail or a small screwdriver though a hole in the recoil tube to prevent the spring from springing.

Every time I've done it, that spring has been literally caked with dirt, rust and grime. I soak it in kerosene overnight then wipe it clean, and clean the recoil tube the same way I'd clean a barrel. A 20 gauge bore brush is a little tight and scrubs well. The only hard part is stuffing that spring back into the recoil tube and getting the bolt/cap screwed back in.

It's truly amazing how much grime gets in there, but I have to admit that I never had any problems until my third season with the gun, and then only on a day with the air temp down around 10*F. My theory is that the accumulated grime, salt and dust attract moisture, things get a little gummy, and then the gum freezes around the spring. The gun still cycles, and may even eject the spent shell, but not with enough recoil to load the second shot from the magazine. Since I realized what was causing this, I've cleaned the recoil tube and spring at the beginning of every season, and then again around Thanksgiving when we begin to get some really cold mornings. Down your way, you simply may not encounter the conditions that cause me problems.
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Good description Jeff, It is the same on the Benelli as well. On the Benelli (and I think Beretta), the spring tube cap bolt is set with threadlock red, so a little heat over a couple minutes really eases removal. I always threadlock the tube cap bolt back on since you don't want that to give when you are trying to get the stock nut off - you would have a mess on your hands. As far as cleaning the tube without taking it apart, every time I clean, I shoot a little bit of breakfree in there and use a tico tool (fuzzy pink pipecleaner type bore cleaner). I think that removes a lot in the course fo normal cleaning. That treatment doesnt' let oil over accumulate from what I've seen, it is usually about right. I still take the whole thing apart once a year (or so).
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I've taken the butt plate off, just never had a long enough driver to remove the stock. May try it before this season opens to see what is in there.

If it gets down to 10 degrees down here, I wont have to worry about my gun cycling, my butt will stay in bed!
 
I've taken the butt plate off, just never had a long enough driver to remove the stock. May try it before this season opens to see what is in there.

If it gets down to 10 degrees down here, I wont have to worry about my gun cycling, my butt will stay in bed!
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We've just got to get you up here for a late December black/whistler hunt. Nothing like pushing the canoe through salt marsh slush in the dark on Christmas morning!

Even better, January eiders . . . . .
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I do have in the gun safe all of the above mention guns: A-5 Browning 12 & 20 Gage Mag.
1966 vintage with factory left hand safetys, Beretta Xtrema II & I, Benelli SBE II Left Hand & Benelli SBE I Left Hand. All great guns but I picked up another special one at the Tulsa Gun snow this April:

Remington Wingmaster 870 LH Mag with 30 fixed full choke barrel, great shape and will be put to good use this season. Also, I found at the same show (the vendor had 8 box' of them) New 870 LH Hasting barrel 34 " with wad lock choke system.

I forgot to mention, I also have on my A-5 12 Gage Mag. Browning a Hasting 34" Wad Lock barrel, 12 for 12 on geese, what a sweet shooter.

During our late season hunt in Sask. Canada this pass season, Snowing, blowing 35+ and -7F all of the semi-auto froze up and I went back to the truck and got my 870 Pump RH XCS.

Dennis S. (Rio Rancho, NM)
 
I've taken the butt plate off, just never had a long enough driver to remove the stock. May try it before this season opens to see what is in there.

If it gets down to 10 degrees down here, I wont have to worry about my gun cycling, my butt will stay in bed!
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We've just got to get you up here for a late December black/whistler hunt. Nothing like pushing the canoe through salt marsh slush in the dark on Christmas morning!

Even better, January eiders . . . . .
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One of these days I will be taking you guys up on that. Just have to get some warmer clothes before I do!
I'm guessing my 3mm neoprene waders with 200 grams of insulation in the boot will be a little light for that kinda weather. Might need some electric socks and some arctic weight thermals.
 
I've taken the butt plate off, just never had a long enough driver to remove the stock. May try it before this season opens to see what is in there.

If it gets down to 10 degrees down here, I wont have to worry about my gun cycling, my butt will stay in bed!
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13 mm deep socket on an extension.
 
Carl, I hunt all season in a pair of breathables with 3 mm neoprene feet.

Wool socks, good polypro long johns, and fleece or wool pants under them.

Multiple layers of poly/fleece/wool on top, plus a warm hat and full face protection.
 
Let me tell all you SBE guys a story. During the winter of 2009 A good friend of mine Tommy , retired PO and nobody more competant with a gun than Tom. Was shooting a SBE for the entire season at Spring Farms a local shooting preserve on a morning shoot 5-6 boxes of 23/4" sheels is the rule. Tom and his buddy were in a blind , The SBE had been performing well. Tom shot the gun cycled and the 2nd shot went off in the receiver blowing it apart. Fortunatly neither Tom nor his partner were hurt. As of last report Tom was still at odds with Benneli not wanting to make good on the gun. Benneli told Tom that this wasn't the first time this had happened. Knowing what happened I still tried to buy a LH SBE, but the deal fell through, The SBE is a fine gun. However if Berretta made a LH Extrema I'd buy that. I just feel its a better gun
 
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Jeff,

you are making me think of the, "Cremation of Sam Magee" when you talk like that around a guy from AL. I think you may just want the heater Carl.......

Esp if you get one of the famous Maine days for your hunt.


Bob
 
I was in the same spot after this last season. Sure the Benelli S. Eagle and the Beretta are super guns but I had a cash limit and wanted out of my old pump forever. I borrowed my friends Remington 1100 - 3" mag and really liked it. I started looking and found quite a few in the $350 range in OK condition but found a new condition one with vent rib for $400. Took it out to the trap field and it's awesome. Found alot of shells in 2's for $14.00 a box - I'm a happy camper - you might do the same.
 
I was in the same spot after this last season. Sure the Benelli S. Eagle and the Beretta are super guns but I had a cash limit and wanted out of my old pump forever. I borrowed my friends Remington 1100 - 3" mag and really liked it. I started looking and found quite a few in the $350 range in OK condition but found a new condition one with vent rib for $400. Took it out to the trap field and it's awesome. Found alot of shells in 2's for $14.00 a box - I'm a happy camper - you might do the same.
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Now your talking Rick. Remington Model 1100 absolutly the best.
 
What ? Nobody out there shoots a Remington 11 - 87 ? I have had mine 15 yrs and use it for duck, deer and turkey hunting. Its never jammed or failed me once.
 
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