We ARE IN FOR A RUDE AWAKENING!!!! SHORTER DUCK SEAON!!

Capt'n Mitch NEE

Capt'n Mitch NEE

Active member
After talking several times with our State BIOLIGISTS they say that due to
SEVERAL YEARS IN A ROW OF SEA DUCKS DYING FROM SOME FORM OF TRIPLE E that the DUCK SEASON on the EAST COAST WILL BE CUT BY 40% in days and that SEA DUCKS MAY BECOME PART OF THE DAILY BAG LIMIT!!
THE BEGINING OF THE END!!!
 
I don't know what triple EEE is, but the 107 day special seaduck seasons are being scaled back because populations are declining and hunting effort has increased out of proportion with the resource. The regular duck season is unchanged but yes seaducks are now part of the regular duck bag limit.
 
How can anyone say they didn't see this coming with years and years of downward population trends???
I'm amazed it didn't happen already.
 
Got to agree with you Carl. In the 70's with the down turn in duck populations most will recall the point system. During that time in the Mississippi Valley flyway we shot many more ducks than we do today. Quit frankly I believe the seasons and bag limits should be cut until populations have a chance to rebound but I'll be surprised if that will ever happen. With the kind of revenue the waterfowling industry generates today big business will keep the statuesque.
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will find out tonight, although last month, we were told about it. The sea ducks will not count as regular, UNLESS, hunted within the 800 yard limit. We have a sea duck zone.
Folks, his is what happens when guys go commercial, kill big numbers, especially squaws, for a "trophy", then trash the rest.
The big problem, as explained by people who DON'T gun for them, is a BIG decline in the oldsquaws. The fed doesn't have a clue on scoters, but they did have a handle on the squaws, at least on the atlantic flyway.
Best thing to do is get to your council meetings and voice an opinion, ALTHOUGH, this has been on the table for at least two years.
Last year's bust for hunters should be a boon for the fowl, as long as predator populations don't boom to balance the prey upswing.
 
Myself ,I enjoyed the 3 a day limit we had years ago on the East Coast.
It kept the wack them and stack them crowd out of the marsh, no one wanted to do the work for 3 birds.
Problem with a shorter season is that it will come off the end of the season so the Tshirt squad can have their warm fall hunts, guys who want Dec and Jan will get screwed like normal.
 
Hi Brad,
That's Eastern Equine Encephalitis, that's right a horse disease brought on by Mosquitos, the Bioligists told me that there are "SEVEARAL STRAINS" here in the North East, we lost in a two row year period over 50,000 yes 50,000
Each year off Cape Cod,along with another VIRUS off WELFLEET( might be linked to muscle/oyster farms) Any way the News is BAD! Bad for the birds for
Starters,Bad for us the Hunters,Bad for GUIDES and CUSTOMERS, BAD for
BOAT BUILDERS! JUST BAD! and the BIOLIGIST said that this season and NEXT "WILL BE CUT" ALONG THE WHOLE EAST COAST/ATLANTIC FLYWAY!!!
WE SHALL SEE????
 
Eastern Equine is unrelated to Wellfleet virus. The main problems are poor recruitment in eiders due to high predation and high harvest in eiders, scoters and oldsquaw.
 
Myself ,I enjoyed the 3 a day limit we had years ago on the East Coast.
It kept the wack them and stack them crowd out of the marsh, no one wanted to do the work for 3 birds.
Problem with a shorter season is that it will come off the end of the season so the Tshirt squad can have their warm fall hunts, guys who want Dec and Jan will get screwed like normal.
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I would be all for a three bird bag. I had a biologist tell me once that the limit doesn't effect harvest as much as days in the season though. I don't know enough about it either way to agree or disagree.
 
What would define poor recruitment? And PREDIDATION? We had O eider
Summer hatch or layover in the early 80s in BOSTON HARBOR, or HABAA!!
Now they are BANDING BIRDS on CALF ISLAND,we have a NICE SUMMER
BROOD that we never had before, as far as OVER HARVESTING,the SERIOUS NIMRODS are far and few between and today's limits DON'T WARRANT IT!!
The WELLFLEET issue says Maybe Shellfish Farming? I Bass fish and Lobster
Fish Religiously in Boston living 1/2 mile from the Water, I have not Yet seen
Gulls and I'm not saying it doesn't happen it Does gulls eating Ducklings,but what could be eating these birds? Seals, Bass, Commarants?? Or are you saying HUNTERS?? Whatever it is, it's not good,BECAUSE back IN THE DAY NO matter where you were in the NORTHEAST YOU COULD WALK ON THEM!!! Now there are LESS BIRDS AND A LOT LESS HUNTERS!!!
 
The main problems are poor recruitment in eiders due to high predation and high harvest in eiders, scoters and oldsquaw.
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Brad, can you offer an informed opinion about the "eagle hypothesis"? A common refrain about poor recruitment for some coastal birds in recent years has been increased predation by the recovering eagle population. I've heard this in particular regarding great blue herons and eiders, I've never seen any studies or data on this, but here in Maine eagles numbers are way up from 30 years ago.

If not eagles, what other predators would be of concern?

Has anyone looked at forage for eiders? I've always heard they feed on mussels, and a major change on my part of the coast is that mussel numbers are much reduced, at least in the intertidal zone. When I was a kid it was easy to pick a meal's worth anywhere, but now they are pretty scarce.
 
Hi Jeff,
Even if eagles were at eiders and it were their mainstay diet,how could they inflict that much damage ?? Too much of a schmorgesborg for them,I
Think your lack of mussels with these so called viruses are partly to blame.I have a semi confirmation that the Mass Sea Duck season will go from 107 days to 60 this year and possibly coincided with the regular duck season!!
We Are Screwed!!!
 
Over hunting is just a scapegoat. Something else is going on out there. I firmly believe a migration pattern change along with nesting habitat decline. Past 4 or 5 seasons were pretty solid with adult birds. Remember dead hens can't lay eggs
 
I agree on the over hunting ,there is just not ENOUGH GUYS chasing eiders
Or the big thing INVESTING THE MONEY TO BUY ALL OF THE GEAR!! BOATS!MOTORS! TRAILERS, DEKEKS and DOGS! we are not the problem,
Nesting areas haven't really changed but maybe increased with land buying,
It seems to be a FOOD resource or a SICKNESS of some TYPE! Until we get an
Answer, itvSEEMS UNLIKELY THAT THAT THE RESOURCE OFVBIRDS WILL TAKE YEARS TO BOUNCE BACK!!!! THIS ONE IS GONNA HURT US!!
 
With the guides in the southern Maine area and the photos of huge bags of long tails and eiders and when I have asked what the intended use was and I am told coyoto bait or I see whole birds in the dumpsters at the launches or crippled or dead hens floating on the incoming tides. I thing the wanton waste of the resource to provide clients a photo of a pile of dead birds is a huge part of the reduction in the birds. I went to the Maine counsel meeting and they are resolved to address the issue of extreme pressure of the guides and the wanton waste of a non renuable resourse.
 
If Eiders were Mallards you "might be right" Captain Nee.....and I only single you out because you are the one that seems to be most worried about the human side.......thing is the Sea Duck Tribe ARE NOT Mallards....they don't nest "everywhere there is a puddle" and they don't nest in their first year....they don't mature until their third year and they don't typically have as large a clutch size as "Mallards"........predation, including human, therefore has a much greater impact on the population and given the dynamics of their populations once you pass a threshold it is much more difficult to recover....


A couple of bad years on the nesting grounds with Mallards and Teal and you need to cut back on the season length.....a couple of wet springs and you're back in business.......doesn't work that way with Sea Ducks......put several poor nesting years in a row with the attendant poor recruitment of juveniles and then continue with long season lengths and large limits and all of the sudden you're really hammering your breeders.......you don't know him I don't think cause your name is new to me but I once asked Clint Jeske, (who was a very well know and highly respected Waterfowl Biologist but who sadly is no longer with us), about the decline of the Scoter populations in Washington, (we experienced the same thing in Washington that you are seeing on the East Coast with an enormous decline in wintering Scoter populations), and his response to me was that he felt that within the Sea Duck tribe that human harvest could rapidly become "additive" to the population decrease......which simply means that "we are shooting too many and that everyone we shoot is one that won't breed"......far different than the "compensatory" harvest when looking at ducks like Mallards.....


I have no doubt that there are things in play that aren't "human related".....I also have NO DOUBT that we are part of the problem.....could something be impacting the food base?....of course but if that's the case then continuing to "add to the loss" of the population base by continuing long seasons and high limits is "screwing the resource".....you might see lowering the limit or reducing season length as "getting screwed" personally but allowing 107 day seasons to continue in the face of the evidence that the populations are declining isn't a particularly intelligent response.......


I feel your pain....I was never a Guide but Sea Duck Hunting was "my thing" for many years in the Pacific NorthWest....did the "bought the equipment thing" and over the years hosted over 50 people from this website on hunts.....most of the people on this site that have killed Harlequins killed them out of my boat and the same can be said of "non East Coasters" for the Scoters and Barrow's Goldeneyes......looking back I accept some of the blame for the decline in Scoter populations in at least some areas in Washington.....Mallards numbers were down for several years and it was my posting on the internet, along with others, both Guides and individuals like myself, who popularized Scoter hunting there.....hunter numbers swelled, harvest burgeoned, and lo and behold populations declined to the point where eventually the limits were reduced to (2) Scoters......Food remained the same, (Scoters like Eiders are mussel eaters and the coves that once held thousands of wintering Scoters remain prime Mussel producers for the market and recreational harvesters), yet there are still those disgruntled hunters that loudly proclaim its a food thing.....or blame Eagles.....or Seals.....


Its the nature of the beast not to accept the blame when things go South, and while I'm not saying that the entire decline should be laid upon the once, and apparantely ongoing, groaning tailgates of the avid Sea Duckers I do think we have to look at the Sea Duck Tribe as a "different duck" than we do Mallards and assign, and accept, a different management strategy to ensure that we have them in the future.......hurts when you love them over the decoys so deeply, or when you make part of your living from them, but that doesn't change the facts........


As the once near famous Pogo once said......"we have seen the enemy...and he is us"......we can't ignore our impact on this declining species as "inconsequential" nor can we look at decreases as "getting screwed"........at least not IMO......






Steve
 
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If Eiders were Mallards you "might be right" Captain Nee.....and I only single you out because you are the one that seems to be most worried most about the human side.......thing is the Sea Duck Tribe ARE NOT Mallards....they don't nest "everywhere there is a puddle" and they don't nest in their first year....they don't mature until their third year and is don't typically have as large a clutch size as "Mallards"........predation, including human, therefore has a much greater impact on the population and given the dynamics of their populations once you pass a threshold it is much more difficult to recover....


A couple of bad years on the nesting grounds with Mallards and Teal and you need to cut back on the season length.....a couple of wet springs and you're back in business.......doesn't work that way with Sea Ducks......put several poor nesting years in a row with the attendant poor recruitment of juveniles and then continue with long season lengths and large limits and all of the sudden you're really hammering your breeders.......you don't know him I don't think cause your name is new to me but I once asked Clint Jeske, (who was a very well know and highly respected Waterfowl Biologist), about the decline of the Scoter populations in Washington, (we experienced the same thing in Washington that you are seeing on the East Coast with an enormous decline in wintering Scoter populations), and his response to me was that he felt that within the Sea Duck tribe that human harvest could rapidly become "additive" to the population decrease......which simply means that "we are shooting too many and that everyone we shoot is one that won't breed"......far different than the "compensatory" harvest when looking at ducks like Mallards.....


I have no doubt that there are things in play that aren't "human related".....I also have NO DOUBT that we are part of the problem.....could something be impacting the food base?....of course but if that's the case then continuing to "add to the lose" of the population base by continuing long seasons and high limits is "screwing the resource".....you might see lowering the limit or reducing season length as "getting screwed" personally but allowing 107 day seasons to continue in the face of the evidence that the populations are declining isn't a particularly intelligent response.......


I feel your pain....I was never a Guide but Sea Duck Hunting was "my thing" for many years in the Pacific NorthWest....did the "bough the equipment thing" and over the years hosted over 50 people from this website on hunts.....most of the people on this site that have killed Harlequins killed them out of my boat and the same can be said of "non East Coasters" for the Scoters and Barrow's Goldeneyes......looking back I accept some of the blame for the decline in Scoter populations in at least some areas in Washington.....Mallards numbers were down for several years and it was my posting on the internet, along with others, both Guides and individuals like myself), who popularized Scoter hunting there.....hunter numbers swelled, harvest burgeoned, and lo and behold populations declined to the point where eventually the limits were reduced to (2) Scoters......Food remained the same, (Scoters like Eiders are mussel eaters and the coves that once held thousands of wintering Scoters remain prime Mussel producers for the market and recreational harvesters), yet there are still those disgruntled hunters that loudly proclaim its a food thing.....


Its the nature of the beast not to accept the blame when things go South, and while I'm not saying that the entire decline should be laid upon the once groaning tailgates of the avid Sea Duckers I do think we have to look at the Sea Duck Tribe as a "different duck" than we do Mallards and assign, and accept, a different management strategy to ensure that we have them in the future.......hurts when you love them over the decoys so deeply, or when you make part of your living from them, but that doesn't change the facts........


As the once near famous Pogo once said......"we have seen the enemy...and he is us"......we can't ignore our impact on this declining species as "inconsequential" nor can we look at decreases as "getting screwed"........at least not IMO......



Steve
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Fantastic post, Steve, thank you. I don't have the boat or decoys to chase eiders, so my only eider kills come when I'm a guest or as a once-a-year incidental bird when I am looking for saltwater black ducks or whistlers. I'm not generally picky about eating game birds, and I think eiders eat just fine, but they are a big bird. WTH does someone do with an entire limit of eiders? Shooting them for coyote bait or dog food is too close to wanton waste for me, even if it may not be for the law.
 
Not only have I been told that I have seen it! And the wardens are either too busy or its not TV worthy for them to be bothered with. I have spend decades hunting sea ducks and watched the number of guides grow and grow. I understand and respect the idea of having a job doing something you love but alas the resources can not be maintained at the level it's being misused at. It's simple you can only go to the well so many times. And now the next generation will suffer from the unnecessary over harvesting
 
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