We are moving on to trailer questions

A

Andrew Holley

Well-known member
I have given up trying to find a trailer to fit the boat and going with the plan of making one. I may wear a suit and a tie to work, but I can weld pretty damn good. (Been offered several jobs after taking some of the advance welding classes as the tech school)

Anyways have some question for you all. The boat is 25' long and 8 1/2' wide. Boat will weigh in around 2,000 with motor, give or take some.

1) Planning on making it a tandem axle trailer, should I install brakes on one of the axles? If so, should I go with electric or hydraulic surge? I was leaning toward surge brakes, as then anyone could pull the trailer. However, as I read through a Northern catalog, hydraulic brake actuators seem to be rated at a low of 6,000 lbs. If I only have 2,500 behind me, will they even engage? Now I drive a full size truck, I probably don't really need the brakes, but, I plan on pulling this thing across the country hunting and want the best I can get for a reasonable dollar.

2) Can a do it yourselfer install electric brakes? Seems like it's just a sending unit and a wire running to the back.

3) Last one, and here is where the farm boy comes out. I want the trailer to look professional, so factory trailers generally have bent rectangular tubing for the side rails. How do you bend square tubing? I looked at a pipe bender and harbor freight and thought of using that. By prebending a piece of pipe to cover the shoe, then press than into the wide side of the tubing, while bending it. I think this is how the factories do it, but not sure. Any ideas.

And before anyone asks, I no longer have a camera, so there won't be any pic, until/unless Santa puts one under the tree.

Thanks guys
 
building is the way to go :) personally if you could I would do aluminum with a trailer that size steel will be heavy if you use steel use C channel (I'd use 3"x1/4")

1) personally if I was driving a full size I would skip the brakes one more headache avoided . if you have to use [font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]hydraulic surge and yes they will work with a empty trailer so make sure you hook up a back release wire

2)man a do it your selfer country farm boy can Build anything :) yes you ca but to me they get screwed up way to quick when used in a marine type trailer

3) not all pro trailers are square/rectangular tubing some use C channel, or I beam . most the big boys have special shoes for there benders to fit that rectangular tube harbor freight on has round shoes. assumeig your going with steel C channel mark it ff to start teh bend take a hand band saw and make "V" cuts about /8 in the back , space them out depending how fast and short area you want to make the bend . heat the wide section that was uncut and close the "V's" later weld back up. you can make hard or soft bends with this method.


hope that helps
robert
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Andrew, I have a welding/fabricating buisness and have made and repaired/retro fitted smaller trailers. To bend either tubing or channel you can notch it or v-cut it as mentioned above. Simply weld up the seam when you are done. Use a flap disk to finish the weld and it will look factory. I would use channel myself as opposed to tubing, it is less likely to kink. Go at least 1/4" thick. If you get it galved or powder coated it will cost you just as much as buying a new one. Price it out carefully. It may not be worth the work. I bought a Load/Rite for my new boat in Sept. of this year. The trailer cost $1,040. It would have cost me about $900. to build my own and get it galv dipped. Good luck with the project. Kevin
 
Andrew,

Looks like you will be able to handle the build portion of your trailer project quite well. My advise for the engineering and design side is to glean all you can from what's offered by full time trailer makers. Plenty of good pictures and info to be had by visiting both web sites and dealer lots.

Take a tape along and check such things as; axle placement (fore to aft), axle clearance, side frame bend angle on tongue end, location and number of cross braces. Check for where and how wiring is run, hydraulic lines and such. In other words, don't try to design your trailer from the ground up. Take an existing design or two and tweak and combine as needed.

As far as bending either the tubing or "C" channel. Check around for a small local machine shop that can roll bend the angle you need. It will be stronger and better looking than the cut and weld method (generally speaking). Yes the cut and weld method can be just as good but will require a lot more time and effort on your part.

One hint, however you make your bends, bend both sides first leaving extra length on the legs, then trim the length as needed.

I'd say yes to brakes. My advise would be to check with the mechanics at the local marinas and see which type is most reliable and easily serviced.
 
Andrew,

The link states the brake requirement for trailers.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/statepatrol/inspection/faqs-inspection.htm#trailers

I had a 24ft pontoon with tandem axles. Here in Illionis it's mandatory to have brakes on a tandem trailer. The trailer came with surge brakes and when braking down hill with a full size truck I needed them. Personally I'd install surge brakes. Much easier than electric and less expensive.

Should be able to get an idea about pricing here

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm

Hope this helps.

Ed L.
 
One thought is to double check your total capacity before buying anything. If you have a ~2000 lb hull, a ~400 lb motor, you are going to be hauling in the 3000 lb range by the time you add fuel, and all the crap we take hunting - heck, I must have at least 200 lbs in decoys, weights and line when I diver hunt. You'll want to make sure whatever suspension you use and brakes you choose are capable.
 
aint this suttons specialty????
Click to expand...



Only if Andrew wishes to sell his trailer upon completion. Sure as heck don't want Sutton lending a helping hand with any power tools. BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 
childs play....

I fart in the general direction of what you so boldly refer to as a "trailer".....

Semi-trailers only Scott.....and I don't build em I just sell em.....although as the owner of a big boat that is smaller than Andrew's with a single axle trailer and no brakes if I had to do it all over again I'd definately be looking tandem axles and brakes on BOTH axles.....

The one thing I'd definately add that hasn't been mentioned is that I'd use the oil bath bearings with the hubcaps that have the clear site glass....way more convienant to monitor condition of your bearing than the standard grease packed bearing.....


Steve
 
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that have them, and the guy who just replaced the bearings on my big boat trailer, (professional boat trailer maintenance busioness owner), they are the way to go....more expensive up front but well worth it because the average boat trailer owner will actually "look" at the condition of his hubs rather than just "guess" they are okay....

Think about it....if oil can't get out then it stands to reason that water can't get in....same concept as grease, )a seal at the rear and a hubcap in the front), with the difference being that the hubcap has a site glass so you can see the lubricant level.....

And as you know if you are using oil rather than grease if you have a seal issue you'll see it with the oil way before you'd ever notice it with grease.....

I'll never have another axle without them.....

Steve
 
Northern is selling them now, really aren't that much more than normal hub, maybe $10 more per, however up till know haven't heard any feed back on them. But it would seem if you have any type of leak mid trip you could be screwed quickly, where a grease hub would fail "slower", or rather you may not know it failing.


Hey Steve will you really gain anything with brakes on both axles? I cann't believe you would have twice the stopping power, if only on one axle, does that axle skip and bounce?

And electric or hydraulic?
 
I saw some oil bath bearings on a trailer at the ramp the other day. I agree with Steve you will definitely see how much lube is in the clear cap. I bought the clear red eyes caps for my trailer, but if the opportunity arises I plan on switching.
 
leaks, which aren't bad enough to cause a serious problem and that give you time to repair them, or "catastrophic" and then it doesn't matter if its oil or grease--you're screwed either way......

The biggest mistake I made on my boat when I had it built was the trailer....went with the single axle and no brakes because my empty wt. was less than the rated wt. of the axle and I wasn't smart enough to take into account what that thing was going to weigh after I loaded it down with all my stuff.....I've had chronic bearing issues ever since.....I'm just going by what I've been told by trailer people who I have talked to about a new trailer for my boat.....all of them listen to where I operate the trailer and say...."put brakes on both axles"......

Granted I'm on a steep hill that I have to come off of for every trip and I also have three mountain passes between me and Eastern Washington where I hunt that you might not have....but you have a bigger, heavier, boat plus you have nasty winter weather driving conditions.....I'd want that extra braking power behind me, even if it wasn't TWICE what one set is, when I was driving to stop that beast in a hurry......

Steve
 
andrew i work with these oil bath seals all the time and when a seal fails ive never seen it blow its whole load of oil ussually takes on water before it looses oil and if inspected daily or on every trip you should notice the milky look of contaminated fluid i just was not aware of them being used in boat trailers sounds like a good idea too me
 
Is the oil inherently better than grease in this application?

A big advantage I see (in my ignorant bliss) is that these oil bath caps have clear covers so you can easily see whether or not you have lube.

Doesn't grease have some benefits in it's thick-ness. Not sure exactly what I am trying to say, but let me try again - if you were to run low on grease, wouldn't it's inherent goopy nature keep it on the metal surfaces longer and protect the metal on metal wear? Seems like oil, being more liquidy, would tend to come off the metal surfaces more easily. Doesn't grease also have benefits in terms of ability to withstand pressure?

I know, I know, big semi-trucks use them and so do their trailers. But these guys are on top of what is going on with their rigs, because it is their bread and butter (at least the independent truckers I've known). They are looking at their hubs all the time.

I doubt most duck hunters are as mindful of their bearings. I am as guilty as the next guy, I don't check the grease level on my bearings enough. With these lube through hubs it is almost too easy to keep them lubricated with grease.

Charlie
 
the reason that oil has an advantage over grease in boat trailers.....very very very few boat trailer owners do anything more than just squirt a little grease into their hubs "once in awhile" and call it "good"....if the grease in the hub is "contaminated" adding grease doesn't fix that and you can't tell cause you can't see it....if there isn't enough grease in the hub then you might not know that either...

Grease works well in hubs when there is adequate grease present....if there isn't enough the bearing will heat up. When that happens the grease becomes more liquid and is thrown off the bearing by the rotation of the wheel....pretty soon you have dry bearings which, as you likely know, is not a good thing....

Go to the Oil Bath bearings.....any stooge can walk by their trailer and see the level of the oil, as well as the condition, just by looking throught the sight glass in the hub....if it needs more you just remove the plug and pour it in straight from the container, (no grease gun required), to the "full" level on the glass. Peek at the backside of the tire to make sure that there is no oil on the tire and you know you are "good to go"......that ain't gonna happen as easily with grease filled hubs.....

Boat traielr owners aren't typically real big on PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE.....Oil bath hubs makes it possible for them to be proactive with just a glance at the hubs.....

VISCOSITY is the word you were looking for I believe.....

Steve
 
Andrew, with that big and heavy of a boat, the only thing that is going to bounce is your head off the steering wheel. The more sq inch you have in contact with the road..the more stopping power you get. I wonder if they make anti-lock breaks for trailers? Are the oil hubs from Northern made in C-Hina?
 
I have them on my Easy Loader and they'er great.Ran at 80 mph for 4 hours,and the hubs were OAT when I latched on to them with my bare hand.
 
Lee don't know where they are made, catalog doesn't say. However, they aren't cheap 1,750 lb hub (that rating per hub, not per set) is $49.99 which is $17 more per hub than their standard hub.

I think I am sold on them. There is a Northern store down in Milwaukee, planning on going down this weekend and taking a look at them.

Oh, Lee the Brand name is Tie Down Engineering.
 
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