Western big game trip planning advice...

[tod osier]

Anyone have any suggestions on states to look towards or away from as far as planning a a freelanced big game hunt next fall?

I've done little research at this point, but what I've done and seen over the years makes it obvious that teasing out the complexities of this state vs. that is going to be a big job. I've got the time and gear to do either a road system hunt or hike in backcountry. I'd be most interested in either a nice muley buck or nice bull elk, pronghorns would be a distant third (unfortunately I have the best information and first hand knowledge of places for pronghorns).

Could be rifle or bow, I'd prefer rifle, but bow is fine and I'd rather bow with a reduced price and easier to get tag over a much more expensive hard to get rifle tag. Then again, I'm thinking a Canadian prairie trip for ducks may be just the ticket, since Pete would be able to hunt. I might do both waterfowl and big game.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

T

 

[Pete McMiller]

Tod,

A couple of things.

Archery tags and rifle tags are, in my experience, the same cost. Many states tags are a limited draw affair. I am most familiar with Colorado - all deer tags in Colorado are by draw, OTC elk tags are available for some units during the archery season, not sure about rifle. I take it you are thinking of a DIY hunt and that is certainly doable in Colorado. Colorado has a wonderful Big Game web site that covers most aspects of hunting in that state. http://wildlife.state.co.us/HUNTING/BIGGAME/Pages/BigGame.aspx They have past success rates in all GMUs (game management units) that should help. I'm sure other states have something similar. It's been 18 years since I hunted Idaho so don't have anything firsthand to contribute. Start your research now so you are ready to apply for a tag when the time comes. Colorado's deadline is usually around the first of April but some, like New Mexico, are as early as February.

IMO, I would first set priorities for what I wanted to hunt. How - guided or not and bow/rifle. After that, research where you want to hunt. As much as I like to bird hunt, I wouldn't combine the two - having a dog in elk camp is not something I would want to deal with. As in all research, the scope can be daunting initially but as you define your parameters it becomes easier and more fun.

 

[Tom Modin]

Tod all the people I know who freelance it on a regular basis gave up on the limited rifle tags available and started hitting areas that offered up easier to obtain archery and muzzleloader hunts. Less competition for the limited area tags. They also stated the weather can be a bit more stable at those times and the hunter traffic is greatly diminished vs. rifle seasons

 

[Ed L.]

Anyone have any suggestions on states to look towards or away from as far as planning a a freelanced big game hunt next fall?

I've done little research at this point, but what I've done and seen over the years makes it obvious that teasing out the complexities of this state vs. that is going to be a big job. I've got the time and gear to do either a road system hunt or hike in backcountry. I'd be most interested in either a nice muley buck or nice bull elk, pronghorns would be a distant third (unfortunately I have the best information and first hand knowledge of places for pronghorns).

Could be rifle or bow, I'd prefer rifle, but bow is fine and I'd rather bow with a reduced price and easier to get tag over a much more expensive hard to get rifle tag. Then again, I'm thinking a Canadian prairie trip for ducks may be just the ticket, since Pete would be able to hunt. I might do both waterfowl and big game.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

T

Todd,

My wife and I have been talking about this as well. My dad and I had dreams of an archery Elk hunt in Colorado that never happened before he passed. I want to do it before I'm 60. That means next year is the year. It also gives me a year to get off my ass and get in better shape.

I'm finding a guided hunt is out of my budget. I've found a few drop hunt options which would be ideal. Some offer pack in and camp gear and some are just get you there and pack you out if you score. I'm leaning towards the Gould, CO area because I'm familiar with some of the area. It's a bit farther west than most seem to want to go and you can get a cow tag over the counter in Walden. The last time I was there Bull tags weren't available over the counter but I'm not sure the guy understood I was asking mainly about archery tags. I know Pete knows the rules better than I do. So many options and costs to filter through. My wife and I have been looking at a small hard side camper I can pull behind the Jeep. Tent camp seems better suited but I like the idea of a camper and it gives me the option of taking my little pontoon to fish some of the lakes. I have sent for information on a few that I'd be happy to pass along. There is also a hunt/fish show here in my area in January. There are always several guides services here with both full guided and drop camp options. I'm looking forward to that as well.

 

[Pete McMiller]

Ed & Tod, One more piece of advice from personal experience. It has only happened twice in 19 years of archery elk and this year was the second time - we NEEDED chains to get out to the main gravel road. The main gravel road was only a mile from our camp but it took an hour to get there WITH chains on. 4WD - low range, 1st gear, 4-5000 RPM. We wouldn't have gotten out that day without them. I haven't run into anything like Colorado mud. Before you venture into the mountains invest in a set of proper chains for the tires you have on your vehicle AND take a small hydraulic jack to assist in putting chains on. Yes, yes, you can put them on without a jack but it makes it so much easier to use one.

 

[tod osier]

Ed & Tod, One more piece of advice from personal experience. It has only happened twice in 19 years of archery elk and this year was the second time - we NEEDED chains to get out to the main gravel road. The main gravel road was only a mile from our camp but it took an hour to get there WITH chains on. 4WD - low range, 1st gear, 4-5000 RPM. We wouldn't have gotten out that day without them. I haven't run into anything like Colorado mud. Before you venture into the mountains invest in a set of proper chains for the tires you have on your vehicle AND take a small hydraulic jack to assist in putting chains on. Yes, yes, you can put them on without a jack but it makes it so much easier to use one.

I've experianced gumbo several times in my travels! I always have a set of high quality chains and a high lift jack in the truck (and a shovel and wood and jerk atrap, etc...). Most important is not having to get anywhere fast and being able to wait it out a day. I've been up to 40 miles off the gravel and when it rains, you just sit until it dries.

 

[Ed L.]

Ed & Tod, One more piece of advice from personal experience. It has only happened twice in 19 years of archery elk and this year was the second time - we NEEDED chains to get out to the main gravel road. The main gravel road was only a mile from our camp but it took an hour to get there WITH chains on. 4WD - low range, 1st gear, 4-5000 RPM. We wouldn't have gotten out that day without them. I haven't run into anything like Colorado mud. Before you venture into the mountains invest in a set of proper chains for the tires you have on your vehicle AND take a small hydraulic jack to assist in putting chains on. Yes, yes, you can put them on without a jack but it makes it so much easier to use one.

Like you and Todd, I have the equipment but unlike you or Todd, they've never been used...;-) The weather has been un believable out there the past few years. If it's not fires it's been floods. The geography is really changing.

 

[tod osier]

Awesome, lots of good thoughts there....

Thanks Pete, I know the least about CO, but I've been hearing it come up a lot and running across it, so I need to get reading. I always get the big game regs adn read them when I travel somewhere, just to sort of keep track on places that are potentials. That is where I got the notion that archery tags are often less than rifle, but that could have just been my selective reading or that I focused on examples where that was the case. No dogs in your elk camp?!?! how do you clean the blood off for photos?!?

I'm in the process of setting proirities now and the ideas folks are throwing out are helping, so thanks!

Tom, yes, EXACTLY my thought on why I brought up archery, but THANKS, I hadn't even considered muzzleloader. That is why this is great.

I'd prefer rifle by a long shot (some pun there, I think), but I'd be happy to hunt bow or muzzleloader if it thinned the hoardes and increased the potential for a quality hunt. I use the bow to do that here, it opens opportunity to hunt longer and different areas. I'm very good with a bow and I've killed a lot of deer with one, but I don't particularly like bow hunting other than the opportunity it gives me (I'm no Pete in that regard). Same with the muzzie. So yes, thanks.

Ed, it sounds like we are in the same boat. As far as guides, I wouldn't use one, but that is just me. A drop camp would be good option and a way to get way back. I will offer my input on the travel trailer option, since I've spend quite a bit of time out West during hunting seasons... "Everyone" out West that hunts owns a travel trailer and will be parking it along the forest service roads, so there will be lots of competition from people who are doing the exact same thing. I'm not saying that it isn't an option, just that everyone does that. I've driven on the days before openers in the west and it is like holy shit... every quad and travel trailer that has ever been produced is on the road today. I can think of two examples, that just blew my mind. Both were deer openers, one in WA and one in WY, where we driving the day before season and saw more rvs than I thought existed. In WA we were in the northern Cascasdes and on this one little shitting road in the mountains we must have seen 300 trailers go by and in WY we were on the interstate adn saw easy a thousand travel trailers in a few hours. I think you are doing the right thing by trying to manage pressure by tryong off the beaten path. The road hunting and ATV hunting is intense, so you need to manage that somehow (get far off the road, hunt wilderness, drop camp, etc...).

I'd bring my travel trailer for the right hunt, but if I was doing that sort fo hunt, I'd plan a way to get away from the crowds (hike, boat, etc...).

T

 

[John L]

Ed & Tod, One more piece of advice from personal experience. It has only happened twice in 19 years of archery elk and this year was the second time - we NEEDED chains to get out to the main gravel road. The main gravel road was only a mile from our camp but it took an hour to get there WITH chains on. 4WD - low range, 1st gear, 4-5000 RPM. We wouldn't have gotten out that day without them. I haven't run into anything like Colorado mud. Before you venture into the mountains invest in a set of proper chains for the tires you have on your vehicle AND take a small hydraulic jack to assist in putting chains on. Yes, yes, you can put them on without a jack but it makes it so much easier to use one.

I've experianced gumbo several times in my travels! I always have a set of high quality chains and a high lift jack in the truck (and a shovel and wood and jerk atrap, etc...). Most important is not having to get anywhere fast and being able to wait it out a day. I've been up to 40 miles off the gravel and when it rains, you just sit until it dries.

From the looks of the flooding your going to be waiting a while for the state to dry out. It may just be ready for you next season.
I sure hope conditions get better. They are really taking a beating right now.
Good luck with the plans.

 

[tod osier]

Tod,

A couple of things.

Archery tags and rifle tags are, in my experience, the same cost. Many states tags are a limited draw affair. I am most familiar with Colorado - all deer tags in Colorado are by draw, OTC elk tags are available for some units during the archery season, not sure about rifle. I take it you are thinking of a DIY hunt and that is certainly doable in Colorado. Colorado has a wonderful Big Game web site that covers most aspects of hunting in that state. http://wildlife.state.co.us/...E/Pages/BigGame.aspx They have past success rates in all GMUs (game management units) that should help. I'm sure other states have something similar. It's been 18 years since I hunted Idaho so don't have anything firsthand to contribute. Start your research now so you are ready to apply for a tag when the time comes. Colorado's deadline is usually around the first of April but some, like New Mexico, are as early as February.

IMO, I would first set priorities for what I wanted to hunt. How - guided or not and bow/rifle. After that, research where you want to hunt. As much as I like to bird hunt, I wouldn't combine the two - having a dog in elk camp is not something I would want to deal with. As in all research, the scope can be daunting initially but as you define your parameters it becomes easier and more fun.

How far in are you gong Pete on your archery hunts? Are you camping on the road or putting a camp in the backcountry? At one point I know you were using your Rokon to get in.

Thanks,

T

 

[Pete McMiller]

I have backpacked in once about 4-5 miles and did a drop camp back in a day and a half by horseback on another hunt. The rest have been either camping on a pretty good road that was off of a pretty good gravel road or more recently we are 17 miles off of pavement on a gravel road and a mile back on a dirt road that is bad on a good day. Though I had plans on taking my Rokon back in one year, it never materialized. We are far enough off the main gravel road and the road is so bad that we don't have many neighbors in our camping area. This year we had a guy and his daughter come in but he had been there before and came in with a diesel truck and chains. We are in an area that we can be into elk in a quarter mile or certainly less than 2 miles UNLESS we or others put too much pressure on them and in that case they could easily travel 5-10 miles and wouldn't be back for a week. We are at the end of a road that has a gate and no vehicles, ATV or otherwise are allowed past.

 

[tod osier]

I have backpacked in once about 4-5 miles and did a drop camp back in a day and a half by horseback on another hunt. The rest have been either camping on a pretty good road that was off of a pretty good gravel road or more recently we are 17 miles off of pavement on a gravel road and a mile back on a dirt road that is bad on a good day. Though I had plans on taking my Rokon back in one year, it never materialized. We are far enough off the main gravel road and the road is so bad that we don't have many neighbors in our camping area. This year we had a guy and his daughter come in but he had been there before and came in with a diesel truck and chains. We are in an area that we can be into elk in a quarter mile or certainly less than 2 miles UNLESS we or others put too much pressure on them and in that case they could easily travel 5-10 miles and wouldn't be back for a week. We are at the end of a road that has a gate and no vehicles, ATV or otherwise are allowed past.

Thanks Pete, sounds like you have a good spot there. 17 miles on gravel at the end of a road, is a good start. I bet there are plenty of places that fit that description where there would be a lot more pressure. I know I've driven a lot more than 17 miles on gravel only to find hoardes of people.

I'd most like to kill a bull elk, no question, but I think most everyone feels that way. If I'm alone, I'd think I'd want to limit myslef to elk within a few miles from the road, but mulies I'd be able to pack out by myself quite a ways without too much hassle. So that right there is a limiting factor. I'm interested in an adventure. After this summer I'm in the best shape in my life (which isn't saying all that much) and I'd like to continue with it. I have an great old friend that I'm trying to talk into the hunt.

 

[Pete McMiller]

Packing an elk out is not much different than packing a deer - just more trips. I don't recall right now but in the last 19 years our camp has taken somewhere in the 20-25 elk and all but three were brought out on our backs - and those three were before we knew better I think the longest pack was about three miles (twice) but the worst was 1.8 miles through blow-downs and down 1400 ft. Just learn to pace yourself.

For an adventure, the trip I took on horseback into the Bitterroots in Idaho was one to remember - we only took one Muley that trip but it still brings fond memories. We contracted with an outfitter to take us in to one of his drop camps. A bit more expensive than a total DIY but IMO worth it if you are only going to do it once. No guarantees that you will be alone (it's public land after all) but a better chance than camping on a gravel road and hoping you don't have neighbors.

 

[tod osier]

Packing an elk out is not much different than packing a deer - just more trips. I don't recall right now but in the last 19 years our camp has taken somewhere in the 20-25 elk and all but three were brought out on our backs - and those three were before we knew better I think the longest pack was about three miles (twice) but the worst was 1.8 miles through blow-downs and down 1400 ft. Just learn to pace yourself.

For an adventure, the trip I took on horseback into the Bitterroots in Idaho was one to remember - we only took one Muley that trip but it still brings fond memories. We contracted with an outfitter to take us in to one of his drop camps. A bit more expensive than a total DIY but IMO worth it if you are only going to do it once. No guarantees that you will be alone (it's public land after all) but a better chance than camping on a gravel road and hoping you don't have neighbors.

As far as packing, yes, but at 10 miles out - 2 trips is a lot different than 5 .

I'm looking for fairly inexpensive, especially given that we spent a fair amount of money this summer. Getting in a ways by foot is something I haven't done and need to do for myself before I get too much older.

 

[Pete McMiller]

Go for it Tod. Pack light. The backpack hunt I did was a weeks worth of everything (I'm Mr. Overprepared) and my pack weighed 94 lbs. I was 44 at the time. 60-70 lbs. would have been soooooooo much easier.

 

[TimJ]

You almost got me volunteering to be a pack mule for ya on this trip until you said 10 miles out. Too bad I'd probably keel over above 4000 ft.

Tim

 

[Kris Schaumburg]

pete did ya'll get an elk this year?

 

[Pete McMiller]

No Kris, not this year. Several of the guys had opportunities but couldn't close the deal. Myself, I had two legal bulls at 50 and 60 yds. The first, a thin 5x5 was scared of his own shadow and never came closer with a couple of cow calls. The second, a nice 6x6 pegged me at 60 yds in a broadside pose - even with a compound I wouldn't have taken that shot and I'm not that good with a longbow either Saw plenty of elk and a couple of guys passed on cows - waiting for a bull that never showed up. Though the bulls were vocal this year, they were only doing the "here I am" bugle and not the "I'm going to kick your butt" bugleing. They'd answer a couple of times but didn't want to engage. Strangely, even cow calls seemed ineffective for some reason - go figure.

 

[Al Hansen]

You almost got me volunteering to be a pack mule for ya on this trip until you said 10 miles out. Too bad I'd probably keel over above 4000 ft.

Tim

Hey Tim, remember the jet that brings you to this country lands at around 5,000 feet and when you begin hunting it normally ranges around here anyways, at 7500 to 10,000 feet. Lungs have a way of screaming for air at that altitude if you are not fit!
Al

 

[Al Hansen]

Tod, a lot of residents down here are pretty upset because they have a hard time getting drawn for a hunt. It is amazing how many guys I know that run up to Colorado to hunt deer and elk because they can buy tags over the counter.

Here is a pic of a friend of mine who took this guy late last week. He put in for a draw and got lucky. He told me that he passed up 15 bulls waiting for a big one. This year he finally did it. This guy has the patience of Jobe and is one hell of a hunter.
Al

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