what exactly is traditional?

D

Dave B

Active member
Haven't been on in awhile. Been out hunting instead of on the puter. Here now becuz we are going after ditch chickens later and skipped the ducks for today.

I read a few of the threads today where many folks touted "traditional hunting" as superior to all other methods and some how more "ethical". This made me wonder, who's traditions and who's ethics ? Hunting at night, shooting into rafts of ducks, punt guns,and no limits, are definitely part of the long tradition of duck hunting but I doubt many folks would condone them today.

People were ripping on spinners,( fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion) , and on those that use them ( not fine in MY opinion) . I was always taught to attack the facts, not the person. One fact is hunters have always sought an edge over the game they hunt. I have a decoy from I believe the 50's, that has movable wings. You attach a string and when you pull it the wings move back and forth. I'm sure that is not the first flapper or motion decoy that anyone ever tried to invent, but it is a pretty early one. Surely something from 50-60 years ago is "traditional".

Many say it is the battery that makes something "non-traditional". The addition of electricity is what makes it "evil". Didn't realize we had so many Amish hunters that use the computer. Since it is the addition of battery power that makes it non-traditional and therefore somehow bad, I assume these same folks still navigate with a compass ONLY since a GPS is a battery powered compass on steroids. REAL outdoorsmen take the time to navigate without the new age gadgets. The stars, and a good compass is all they use just like the hunters of old did.

I'm sure they also only use marsh skis or a duck skiff with a push pole to get into those hard to reach areas instead of a mud motor.

I'm not sure, but I have the feeling that many and probably most of the hunters from the old days would have used most of the non-traditional items we have available today if they were available then.

To me, and again this only MY opinion, the traditions of duck hunting are about being in the marsh with a good dog and good friends. Reveling in the days when it all comes together and we have a great shoot but still enjoying the days when we never fired a shot. We still got to see the world wake up as the sun crept over the horizon, the fog burnt away and all the day animals start their activities around us.

I guess for myself, according to the standards some have put forth on here,I'm not a very "traditional" hunter which of course some how seems to mean I'm inferior. I don't carve my own dekes ( don't have the talent). I hunt over plastic decoys because I can afford them, they are light, and it doesn't wreck my day if one accidentally gets shot. I use an outboard most of the time instead of paddling, poling or sailing. I have made some of the boats I hunt out of but they are fiberglass or kevlar, not wood. I carry and know how to use a compass but most often use the GPS. My waterfowling shotguns have synthetic stocks. I do wear some wool and have a waxed canvas jacket but the rest of my clothes are gortex, synthetics and neoprene. My calls are also made from modern materials, not wood. Nor did I make them myself. I use the computer to check the weather both for my area and those that I think will effect my hunts.I use it to check on the what folks are seeing for bird numbers to the north and west of me. I do some of my scouting from the modern automobile with a pair of binoculars.My decoy bags are store bought and made with modern materials, not old burlap sacks. And yes, I have used a spinner, both wind powered and electronic but not much any more as I don't find them as effective as they once were.

I guess bottom line, I pick and choose the equipment I use because it works, at least for me, rather than some idea of what is or isn't traditional. I didn't realize that I was so much different than so many others on this site.

Dave B
 
Dave, you make some very good points here. In my poinion some guys here go just a bit too far in condemning others. Here is my opinion of a traditional waterfowler: One who hunts out of a traditional "STYLE" boat such as a BBSB or garvey ect. Mind you that my BBSB has a moulded glass hull. One that hunts over traditional blocks such as wooden or cork. Mind you that do use some plastic divers. And one that wears traditional style gear such as canvas coats and hats. Mind you that my coat and hat are made by Filson and LL Bean out of the latest materials for added comfort and warmth. So there you have it . I'm a traditional style hunter using the latest gear, gunning out of a glass hulled boat who uses GHG decoys and occasionally a spinner...................Call me traditional or don't this is the gear that I use.............................Best wishes and happy hunting to all..............Kevin
 
I think that tradition is more about the area you gun and how it has been done there over the last 100-150 years for sporting purposes, as opposed to business (market gunning). The equipment is not necessarily a part of that, although it can be. Along the Delaware Bay the tradition is that the marshes are open and you hunt where you want to go in your boat. Sneakboxes are the more traditional boat and they continue to evolve in terms of hull designs and building materials as different people build them over time. But skiffs were used in the olden days too, and so you can certainly be a traditional hunter and use a jon boat.
 
Dave,

Imagine taking your scenario of sitting waiting for the sun to come up and watching the world come alive and add a rig of decoys you carved in a boat that you built with a dog you trained. Doen't get any better.

T
 
Dave,

Imagine taking your scenario of sitting waiting for the sun to come up and watching the world come alive and add a rig of decoys you carved in a boat that you built with a dog you trained. Doen't get any better.

T
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That's what I'm talking about...

I also think that twenty minutes before shoot time when you are sitting in the boat with your buddy, all the dekes are set, everything is ready, you your best hunting buddy and your dog just sitting there, listening to birds fly over and into the spread as it slowly gets lighter, thats the best.

John
 
Actually Todd, for me it is not as much about the "things" as it is about the friends or the moment. I have had great memories hunting over the dogs I've trained and the boat I built. I have had JUST as outstanding of times hunting over plastic dekes with pro-trained or slightly trained dogs ,out of commercial boats. Again, it wasn't the "things" involved in the hunt that made it what it was. I must admit I have never been a "things kind of guy. If I have something and you need to borrow it fine. If you shoot a deke of mine it won't wreck my day. I won't look down on you if your "things" are not up to par with mine. Likewise, I don't look up to people because their "things " are nicer. Nor do I some how think it makes them a superior, or more ethical hunter.Maybe that is why I still hunt with an old mossberg pump. It fits me, I am a decent shot with it, I abuse it without worrying and its all I need. Sorry, for me it just isn't the "things" that make the hunt.

dave b
 
Actually Todd, for me it is not as much about the "things" as it is about the friends or the moment. I have had great memories hunting over the dogs I've trained and the boat I built. I have had JUST as outstanding of times hunting over plastic dekes with pro-trained or slightly trained dogs ,out of commercial boats. Again, it wasn't the "things" involved in the hunt that made it what it was. I must admit I have never been a "things kind of guy. If I have something and you need to borrow it fine. If you shoot a deke of mine it won't wreck my day. I won't look down on you if your "things" are not up to par with mine. Likewise, I don't look up to people because their "things " are nicer. Nor do I some how think it makes them a superior, or more ethical hunter.Maybe that is why I still hunt with an old mossberg pump. It fits me, I am a decent shot with it, I abuse it without worrying and its all I need. Sorry, for me it just isn't the "things" that make the hunt.

dave b
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I responded in the other thread, just so you don't think I left you hanging. I wouldn't want you to think I had insulted you my snubbing you, I know how sensative you are.
 
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Dave,

Traditional for me would be to hunt the way my grandfather hunted some of the same areas I hunt today. He died way before I was old enough to go but my dad told me the stories and we have the pictures. I have discussed this with my hunting buddies and maybe someday we will do it.

The pics show him in a red and black wool mackinaw, with an earflap hat. He wore a big smile and carried a Winchester Model 12 (where is that gun?). I know he had one of those old style metal handwarmers that fit in the red satinish bag with the sticks you light because I remember him giving me one at Christmas in 1960 or so, telling me that one day it "might save my life". His decoys in the pics looked like stacked 2x6's with a head stuck on...his post-hunt pics looked like they must have worked because of the sheer numbers of bagged ducks displayed.

He and his buddies hunted around Grindstone City a lot because thats where they fished in the summer and its not too far from the places on the Bay that we hunt now. I know he and at least one of his friends always owned and trained Brittany's but I think that was just for pheasant and grouse...or "pats" as they called them. I dont think they would have used them in Lake Huron or Saginaw Bay.

I know he would have fun with all of this discussion because he viewed hunting ducks (and deer and pheasants etc. as well as fishing) as a means of putting food on the table. Real food that they ate. No bull$hit, no excuses...certainly no debate. You better hit something with every shot because shells cost money.

So maybe someday I will have to dress like he did...freeze the nads off, get wet and say "oh well" if I miss, because he made that possible because of all of the things he did for my dad, who did the same for me, which I do for my kids.

Traditional? I guess so. :)

(He was a very practical man by necessity and would probably be the first to ask, "Why the HELL would you want to suffer like I had to, when you don't have to?)
 
Exactly Jim, well said. Judging from some of the posts around here lately though it matters to quite a few and some how relates to how good a duck hunter you are.

DAve B
 
Traditional hunting can only be defined by the individual, not by what happened "x" number of years ago. If you define traditional by old ways of hunting, how far back do you go? 20 years? 50 years? 200 years? Indian hunting? Caveman? Who gets to pick the point in time that they define as traditional?

Traditional for me has many aspects. It starts around this time of the year for me when I look at all the new stuff that comes out in the sporting goods holiday catalogs. What would make a great Christmas gift for hunting the next season. It isn't about the "things" it is about trying something new and different. It's about seeing the excitement on my Dad's and sons face when they open the next hunting season new item to take into the slough.

The tradition continues with hunting the last day of goose season which is sometime in January when it is minus a bunch of degrees outside and the waders freeze. The thrill of hunting the last day of the season can't be described. This is a tradition I started and I have been doing it for many years.

As we enter the summer months, thoughts of getting the gear out, repaired and organized creep into my mind. Naturally nothing ever happens at this time as I think about it right up to the beginning of hunting season and then rush to get all the things done I need to get done. Another tradition.

A new summer tradtion (maybe it can't be called a tradition yet) was started by Rick Kyte and that is the gathering down on Goose Island for a weekend of shooting the breeze with fellow DBHF members and their friends and families. This new "tradition" is one I hope continues for many many years.

Opening weekend arrives and off my Dad, my son and myself go to chase some ducks. We leave at around the same time on Friday and drive down to the cabin on Lake Pepin. Get to the cabin and pop a beer and discuss the hunt to come. My Dad's best bud evenually makes it over to the cabin and we always have a cold one or two waiting for him. Eventually we make it into town and eat at the same restuarant where everyone pretty much orders the same thing year to year. Son gets the chicken fingers, I get the prime rib, Dad gets his steak sandwhich and Dad's bud gets his filet mignon. The discussion always brings up some of our funny stories and rememberences of hunting buddies who have passed on. The story of me out hunting alone many years ago when there was a strong wind is Neal's favorite. I was to meet Neal and his son at a certain bar at a certain time after I had finished hunting. It was so windy that I couldn't get the boat aruond a point I needed to round to get out to the hunting grounds. I tried and tried with no luck. Brought the boat back and went to the bar early. It was only the bar tender and myself in that bar and we watched the Vikings game and drank ourselves silly. By the time Neal and his son arrived, I was so toasted I couldn't even see straight. Neal drove home and the next morning the hangover was horrific. Stories told, with each succeeding year become longer, funnier, and based less on fact as time passes - another tradition.

The Saturday of hunting we used to meet at a certain spot on the way to the landing to get into the swamp. As my son has now joined us , I now go earlier and reserve our spots and the others follow closer to hunting time. We hunt the same part of the slough we have for many many years. I boat by the spot where my Grandpa died ice fishing and bow my head remembering how much he loved to fish and how much he loved this particular part of the country. The only thing that changes is where exactly we set up based on wind direction. We shoot about the same number of ducks and about the same mix of ducks. In the bind we eat the same food, turkey and roast beef sanwiches, chips, and various types of sweets. Dad drinks his Pepis, I drink my Mountain Dew and my son drinks whatever he feels like having that day.

We hunt out of aluminum boats and over plastic decoys and use a motor to get out to our hunting spots. This is all I have ever known. We talk of the old days when Dad and Neal used to have wooden marsh boats that they push poled out into the slough. Neal casually collects decoys but barely remembers hunting over carved dekes. When we talk of the old wood marsh boats Neal retells the story of how his Dad survived the Armistice day blizzard. More traditions.

That evening we meet at Neals house, as we always have, where a good dinner is cooked and other friends stop by for some after dinner drinks and to check how the ducks are flying this year. More stories are told. My son has now been a part of this long enough that he can pretty much repeat the stories verbatim. Pretty funny actually. The tradition will carry on long after I am gone.

We hunt the next day as always and say goodbye to everyone after the hunt. We are checked by the wardens in the same spot every year and usually share a donut or sandwhich with them.

Hunting tradition contiues with hunting public lands in western Wisconsin and sometimes in MN. I hunt with various friends and family and pretty much repeat memories created with these individuals. We hunt in the same general areaa and eat the same food and drink the same beverages. Captain Morgan and Coke has replaced beer for the after hunt beverage of choice. The drink may have changed but the tradition of having a burger and a few drinks after the hunt remain the same.

I have to constantly pester my cousin to go out and hunt. He makes all these plans to hunt with me and backs out at the last minute. No need for anyone to get upset as him backing out is expected, has become part of our hunting tradition, and is now a good story to repeat as to the excuses he has used over the years. This year's goodie was that he had take the President on a fishing trip (semi plausible due to his position within Rapala but totally a fabrication due to my cousins political ideology).

Duck hunting season ends with my hunting the last day of the various zones and States I hunt. Always alone and always to reflect upon the seasons past. I hunt the exact same spots as I know I'll be alone and not have to worry about others ruining this day for me. I fully realize this is a very selfish act but it one I cherish and hope to continue for as long as I am physically able.

Many things stay the same for me each and every hunting season and some things change as well. For me tradition isn't about hunting out of a certain type of boat or hunting out of decoys I carved or with a dog I've trained. Not that it wouldn't be cool to hunt out of a boat I made over dekes I carved with a dog I've trained, it just isn't the way I hunt. That is someone else's tradition and one they cherish as much as I cherish mine I am sure.

Mark W
 
Yes tradition or traditional can mean a lot of different ideas to a lot of people. As Mark W pointed out traditional to him is, routine and ways he has been hunting for years. However the word traditional is to me is a slang term implying vintage or old school methods of hunting and getting prepared. And for me that could mean just about any era but the emphais is on things that are not common anymore or have been phased out because of technology. Hand carved Wood decoys, home built boats, using guns that were manfactured years ago, clothing that was invited before many of us were born Does it make someone hunt better than the other? More ethical? Not in my mind, but it does put in you in that theorical stage of hunting, that it is more about the hunt than the bag.
 
I have a tradition of getting a coffee @ the wawa on rt. 50 right before the bay bridge.

Depending on how big my dinner was I tend to get rid of it by the station @ 213 or the wawa in Easton.

How's that for tradition?

The bottom line is if you judge a fellow hunter based on his gear, or look down on him in any way, you're now become part of the problem.

Do what you want within the law, and don't judge others for what they decide.

-D
 
I am a hard core "traditional" hunter. Traditional meaning handed down by, or conforming to tradition; My father taught us to respect game, take only what we needed, don't waste. He taught me not to water swat, don't sky bust, take care of your equipment, everything tastes better when cooked outdoors, dogs are heaven on earth. These were passed down to me, handed down as traditions to my hunting legacy. I don't care if you are shooting a blunderbuss or a lazer guided shotgun, neoprene waders or ones you made out of marsh reeds. I pass on the same ethics that my father taught me to my boys. I hunt over my own corks and do not look down at anyone who uses anything else. I don't rub it in, but I take personal pleasure in "smoking" someone on the skeet range with my goose gun when they are are toting a several thousand dollar over and under that would never be caught in a marsh. I am very utilitarian and insist on owning what I need to do the job, not what it takes to impress others. I admire a hand built boat but haven't found the time to tackle that project myself......but I will. I take my dog to get a McDonalds biscuit in the mornings before a duck hunt.......that's a tradition. We blow jingle bells on our duck calls around the holidays when the birds aren't flying, again....tradition. We make fun of each other and laugh alot in the blind........tradition. Our hearts race and blood pumps when the birds lock up and head our way.......tradition. I always go into the greatest duck marsh every year with the best dog, best cork decoys, best hunting buddies, best sons, and best of intentions..............it's tradition! dc
 
Bills ,

The part of your post that I disagree with , and this is just my opinion, is:

"[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]but it does put in you in that theorical stage of hunting, that it is more about the hunt than the bag."

I have hunted with guys that used plastic dekes, spinners, mallard machines, and other items that people would not consider traditional. To them it is still about the hunt. One group hunts flooded timber and you are not allowed to take shots into the canopy ( unless taking follow up shots on cripples). Ducks must COMMIT to the hole and be far down into it before the shot is called. I have watched the guy that leads this group and notice that many times he doesn't shoot except to play clean up for other guys. He truly gets more fun out of seeing others get good shooting ( thanks to his calling ) then out of what he shoots himself. He always seems to have room for one more guy, no matter how many are going. I remember one day when we got our limit fairly early and spent another 1.5 hrs just calling ducks into the hole. Wish I had had a video.

I think I know where you are coming from though. There is a theory I have seen that most hunters go thru 3 stages. The 1st stage is that you just want to kill something. You are inexperienced so you don't see much game and what you do see you often don't get.

Stage 2 is that you get experienced enough that you get game if it is around. Then it becomes a numbers game. More game equates to a better hunt.

3rd stage is the experience. This is where the experience over shadows the game taken. For some, as you pointed out, this means hand carved dekes, wood boats , etc. But I have seen plenty of folks that had none of those things yet still were more concerned about the experience over the amount shot. Conversely, I have seen folks that had all the things that you say "[/font][font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]put in you in that theorical stage of hunting, that it is more about the hunt than the bag" that IMO, were slob hunters, sky busted, didn't seem to care about their partner's hunts and were still more about the game shot as a priority.

I just disagree that someone can tell what attitude a person brings to the hunt only by the equipment they use.

I will be honest that EVERY TIME I go hunting I hope it will be a day where the birds are plentiful . That they drop into my dekes as if on a string. That my thunderstick can not miss. Each retrieve by the dog is poetry in motion and would bring ahhhhs of wonder from a national field trial judge. I go with the hope that I will get a limit. It just doesn't wreck my day if I don't. Which is good, becuz often I don't.

Dave B
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