what kind of regulations make you crazy when duckin

Our North zone, South zone divide needs to be put back where it used to be, being 1 mile from the North zone sucks. Being able to hunt a half hour after sun set would be nice also. And the Febuary goose season needs to be in more countys.
 
Ohio changed to Sunrise to Sunset for legal shooting. It is really hard to keep silent and still for 45 minutes with ducks in the decoys and a young excited dog, and a young excited boy, and an old excited self.

I'm sure that many hunters in the areas that I frequent do not carry a time piece and conclude that if they can see well enough to connect with something - it must be shootin' time.
 
I miss Ohio's rabbit and pheasant hunting hours that were 9am to 5 pm. Nice to be able to sleep in a little, have breakfast with the buddies at the local joint and then go hunting. Unfortuately they are now sunrise to sunset.
 
Arkansas is easy....

But, we have some issues down here. The biggest one I see is that we have some management areas that have shell limits (no more than 25 per hunter) and one that has a 15 shell per hunter limit. The one with the 15-shell limit also has a reduced bag limit. It only presents a problem if you hunt the river, for example, with no shell limits, etc., and then hunt a management area the next day, forgetting to take the extra box of shells out of your blind bag or the gun box in the boat.

Originally, it was interpreted as anywhere in your possession, including back in the truck at the ramp. A few guys got tickets for having an extra box of shells in the toolbox of their truck, etc., and I had heard a few rumors about a warden or two being really hard-nosed when the extra box of shells turned out to be dove or skeet loads leftover from God knows when. The shell limit also has gotten some people into trouble when coming back to the ramp...warden checks ducks, guns, shells, and an obviously old spent shell is discovered up under a seat...over the 15/25, ticket time. Used to pick up empties if I found them out in the management areas to help keep things cleaned up, but no more of that.

The things I hear of most often aren't related to the rules, necessarily, but the wardens. We have some who are very good, no nonsense, and just want to make sure that everyone is playing nicely. We have others who assume every party they search is guilty of something, and it's their job to find out what.
 
My one complaint is one that can't and probably shouldn't be changed. The one duck limit on black ducks is a real pain late in the season. In some of the areas I hunt late in the seasion, I probably see 10 black ducks for every mallard. Once you've killed your black duck, it can be a long wait, often with many, many birds in the decoys, before you see something legal to shoot.
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Jeff, that is just simply HORRIBLE :)

The one law in Alabama I wish they would repeal is the "all land is posted" law. You must have written permission to hunt any private land. There was a time when the landonwer had to post the land to keep people off. That meant if the river jumped it's banks and the land wasn't posted you were legal to hunt their flooded fields.
 
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The above mentioned open water/concealment law is by far the worst ever. Followed closely by the allowance of permanent blinds on public waters. They supposidily have to be removed after season, but 95% of them are there all year, creating all sorts of issues. Worst of all is the whole " I own this point since I put my blind here on public land" issue. Build one that day, take it down, rustic materials. When you start plumbing the gas lines, I draw the line personally.

the other one for me is on opening day, we can only start at 9 am. It used to be 12 noon, finally after years of pushing we got it down to 9. they cite safety for 90K duck hunters saying the majority have not scouted, have no clue and are a reckless endangerment to all of the world if allowed to go out before sunrise and shoot a duck. Meanwhile 765,000 deer hunters armed with rifles and shotguns can be unleashed in serious concentrations throughout the state and hunt 1/2 before sunrise..... yep, makes sense to me.
 
The one law in Alabama I wish they would repeal is the "all land is posted" law. You must have written permission to hunt any private land. There was a time when the landonwer had to post the land to keep people off. That meant if the river jumped it's banks and the land wasn't posted you were legal to hunt their flooded fields.
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Are you certain of this Eric? Not question your understanding of the rules and regs but I do know this area is very confusing and not well understood. In WI, the navigable water laws rule in this instance and the 100 year high water mark comes into play. If you can show that nagigable water at one time was at a certain level, you can hunt that area as though there is water there. I fully realize others States handle it differently and some States have argued that the 100 year water level does not apply in certain instances so I'm no expert here. I do know it is complicated and completely understood by very few - me included.

Please note, the 100 year high water mark rule usually does not show up in hunting regs, you need to do some digging in other areas to uncover the navigable water rules. It isn't easy but worth the time to know what you can and can't do.

Mark W
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Mark

Like I said all land is posted. You must have written permission or be in the presence of the landowner, leasee, etc.

I hunt TVA waters almost exclusively and the boundaries are well defined generally follow a countour line. Once you leave the federal reservation you are on private property, no two ways about it. There are markers, concete posts with brass TVA tags, and clear geographic indicators, not to mention contour maps with marked boundaries. Even new hunters can tell when they've left the reservation and are on private property, at least I hope. If you are running up a TN river tributary and pull off into a flooded corn field only the most ignorant hunter would assume they are still on TVA. Spend much time on the river and you get accustom to what things should lokk like and what they shouldn't.

South of TVA in Alabama there are laws that define boundaries relative to navigable water mark. I'm not versed in those as I don't come in contact with them and have no need to learn them. From what I hear there is more confusion about property lines and waterways than in the case of TVA because maps are not readily available that clearly display federal boundaries as does TVA with the help of USGS. In this area I would do like you suggest and explore the law. However, where I am it's pretty cut and dry.
 
I will check on this one, my understanding was as long as you are in a boat, you are OK. But to make sure I will put this question to our District Chief.
 
Hey Eric -

It is the same here - all land is posted. Navigable water rules trump what private land owners believe they have rights to. Please don't take this as me telling you how it is where you hunt as I don't know the rules. What I do know is that the same is said on what is private and what isn't up here and the land owners err on the side that benefits them - post it as no hunting whether they are entitled to or not. Who is going to question a no trespassing or hunting sign on what looks to be private land right?

Anyway, my point is that there are rules and signs and then there are the real rules and signs. Sometimes they don't agree. I too used to believe that navigable water rules were cut and dry and explained in the hunting regs that come out every year. Looking into case law it was easy to see that these laws are not clear and that they are understood by very few including judges, lawyers and CO's..

I don't push the high water rules on anyone as all it would do is cause trouble. I do use the obstruction of navigable waters rule all the time. People can't just wall off areas and create their own private hunting sanctuary. The laws and regs are there for all to obey, not just a few to observe the ones they want to.

I'll post what I learned on this in another post when I get back home. I found it to be of interest.

Mark W
 
More of a question then complaint in reference to trespassing. If you lease property and in the middle of the property there is a state waterway, ie: creek, river, steam, that has sandbars in the middle of the waterway does the leasee have ownership or the state. Say a deer is standing in the water or on the sandbar (not swimming). Can you shoot or if your duck shooting can your boat lay against the bank. I've asked 2 different wardens and got 2 different answers. One says he's writing the other says he's not.
 
Inland waters really are a muddled mix of ownership, rules & common law.
No clear cut answer to a sand bar or island in the middle of the river, it really depends on what state you are in, historical ownership, etc...
 
In Wisconsin, the State DOES NOT own the stream bed. It owns what is under a lake but not under a stream/river. This confuses me as the law also says I can walk streams as long as I keep my feet wet. To me, these two conflict? How can the private land owner not keep me off a stream if he owns land on both sides?

Who owns what is underneath the Mississippi? Can the land owner charge passage fees to boaters and barges?

Mark W
 
First off, long time no chat! Howthehellarya?

Arkansas is a mess when it comes to waterways. Basically, what has come down the pike from case law as I understand it is that, yes, you can take a boat onto a flooded area (i.e., the White River gets out of its banks), and particularly from a navigable waterway. However, once you touch the ground, with your feet, the boat bottom, an anchor, or decoy anchors, or tie off to trees, etc., you are trespassing. The State may own the water that is flooding the property, but the property is private, and you damn well better have written permission to be there. It used to be verbal, but within the past few years, Game & Fish has put into the regs that you have written permission, and I believe they recommend that you carry it on your person when hunting that area.

Now, when you start talking streams, sloughs, bayous and "non-navigable" (under whatever definition these days), it's pretty much the landowner's kingdom.
 
Who owns what is underneath the Mississippi? Can the land owner charge passage fees to boaters and barges?
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Good question, depends on how the state boundaries are along the river & which state it is running through. But my guess is that the states (or feds) own the MS water bottoms.

Can some one charge you passage: NO, not on a "navigable" stream. That would be a restriction of navigation and not permissible under Federal and most state laws.
However, the definition of "navigable" and "navigable in fact" changes from state to state, and once again, it depends on which state you are in!!
 
Here in New Germany(NJ) as I like to call it - The fact that along the Delaware River you have to hunt from a boat and not the shore line and no permanent blinds is my bitch. My early morning anxiety levels would go way down if I didn’t have to take that boat ride in freezing,dark conditions to park my ass 6" from the shore and be uncomfortable for 4hours with a dog. Stupid rule. But you can hunt on shore if your on an island in the river,but I still need that freakin boat to get there. Sitting in a permanent blind rules and is much safer!
 
it drives me batty in NJ that the NJ div of fish and game does not coordinate with towns . they will sell you a license to hunt a zone, north south or coastal, yet if you step foot in some of those areas and are hunting the local cops will arrest you

would be much better for the division to say you can hunt here but not there.

if you do have a problem, the division will not help you at all

so it drives me crazy trying to figure out all of the different township laws that are very hard to find and not always listed, if you call the police in that town, they never know the laws as to if you can hunt in the town or not.
so you are on your own with no help from anyone
 
so it drives me crazy trying to figure out all of the different township laws that are very hard to find and not always listed, if you call the police in that town, they never know the laws as to if you can hunt in the town or not.
so you are on your own with no help from anyone
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I am sure the Division feels the same way.
 
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