What would you do???

LI-Jack

LI-Jack

Active member
As I type, I'm reluctant to even post this but I'll keep names out ...


I took a trip to Arkansas for a duck hunt with friends who bragged about this guide and the birds that they shoot. I traveled over 18 hrs to hunt ducks in my truck with so much excitement that I couldn't sleep. The last week of the season, both for Arkansas and Long Island, but I figured Arkansas was going to be a blast.

Well, the first day we saw birds, lots of birds -- mostly geese (specks, blue and snows) but the rig set out was ducks. Not so many ducks, in my opinion, were flying- except pintail (lots of them). I was siting in a spot, thinking to myself that this guide can really call ducks. The flight of pintail come in and the guide says take em, but he shoots first (strike one in my book). We drop a few and who shot the birds was my question, I knew I didn't get one because the one I aimed at kept flying. I wanted to know who got them, because when the next pintails come in those who filled their pintail bag shouldn't shoot (like Thomas Patterson stated in Erics earlier post--- Eric, you are teaching him very well. God Bless).

Then I spot a crippled blue goose, very far away in the field. I watched a truck pull to the side and fire a rifle round at the goose (strike two, I'm hunting with a bunch of outlaws!!)

Day 2 in the afternoon we switched to another blind. The group had to carry a bunch of shells over gumbo mud over 200 yds, which I kept thinking to myself what is the guide suppose to do? Oh well, it was a good work out. So we set up and I hear the calls again- the calling was really good, so I mention to the guide you sound great-- he holds up a flashlight looking device and it's an electronic call (I'm feeling very uneasy now, to the point where I can't stay anymore) The two guys I came down with were trying to convince me that this isn't all that bad but I couldn't stay. I ruined their hunt because it was my truck and I had to leave. I told the guide that I'm heading home, he really didn't care what I did, and back to Long Island I went. The guys I went with seemed to make me feel like I live in another planet, like this is normal, I didn't budge. I don't think they understood what the difference between hunting ducks, and shooting stuff was. As long as they were shooting, they were happy.

So, I spent 2.5 days in Arkansas, trying to turn the other cheek but just couldn't keep my concerns to myself. I had to leave, not because there were no ducks, just because of how they were hunting. I'll go back to Arkansas someday, but I want an ethical hunt. Next year I may check out Missouri.

I know there are good guides down there, I just don't know who there are, this was my first guided hunt so I didn't know what to expect. I do mostly freelance hunting out here.


What would you guys do??
 
What more can you do? You did the right thing. If you still feel badly about the whole thing, out them on the internet to try to keep others from wasting their money with them.
 
i think you did the right thing.

Frist of all, i dont think guides should shoot at all, i allways ask that when i go on guided hunts. this way they will consentrate on the hunt and not shooting ducks

Next, the guide should of at least called a tip line on the guys shooting geese with a rifle, and you should never have to carry deks on a guided hunt unless you are field hunting.

And last if you cant call you cant hunt let alone guide.
 
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Screw 'em, I think you should have called the law on the e-caller.
Sounds like a bad setup all around, post the names, make sure others know about this outfit. At least email it to AR DNR.
 
This isn't like using something legal that you don't agree with, I could even put up with a moto for a while but an electronic call for ducks is way beyond anything I'd put up with.
What else could you do but leave? That had to suck.
If it weren't so far away small claims court would be in order. You might as well call the local CO and tell them what those guys are doing. It might do some good, sometimes they really aren't aware of what is going on.

Tim
 
Sorry to hear your hunt down here went bad. There a lot of guides down here that don't belong in the guiding business but just do it in the off-season from farming. Sad to say, but that mentality is around a lot.
 
I met some very nice folks in a crawfish restaurant outside of wheatley. They were the highlight of my trip, I wish I took the time to grab a card to thank them for a great dinner. It's a trailer shack on the outside, but don't let that stop you from stoping in to eat. Good people.


The outlaws assured me that the CO was great friends with the land owner, and that a head up call would alert them before the feds came down. I believed him, since the owner was the one shooting the rifle.

I learned alot from this trip, but the one thing that sticks with me is that I can look into the mirror knowing that I did not wavier from how I want to hunt.

The outlaws have several websites with different names, I found this out while looking at their trucks.
 
Jack

That's a real bummer. I'm not sure what the financial obligations were to the guide but I would have refused to pay for any hunt I booked after the day I left and would have asked for a full refund if prepaid. If they refused I'd not think twice about bombarding the net with names and facts.
 
You did the right thing and they should be outed. I understand your reluctance but they are just another kind of thief that is stealing from all of us- The hell with them!!!!!!!!!! Those of us who make it a point to play by the rules should all be outraged. Good call on your part.
 
I think you did the right thing and should keep on doing it by contacting the feds. First off, your buddies may hate you for it but frankly if that's the way they roll who cares-at least I wouldn't. Second of all the "guide" is a scumbag and needs to be culled from the ranks. As a guide I can honestly say that far too many, maybe more than half of the seasonal guides out there are charlatans. If they don't like me to say so they can kiss my ass. I've never been a good standing member of the Ask No Questions guide fraternity which has chapter on every trout/steelhead stream, around every big waterfowl venue and maybe to a lesser degree in areas of high concentrations of big game. Game ranches are often regional offices.

I've heard lots...maybe even countless stories like this from the famed flooded rice fields and timber of Arkansas. I guess it comes with the territory. As far as the rifle and snows go....I think that's pretty much a daily occurance everywhere there are good concentrations of snows. Farmers hate them so they shoot at them right out of the truck with rifles. I ain't saying its right...I'm just saying it happens. A LOT!

Sorry to hear from your bad luck and hopefully somebody that is squared away will offer you some friendly guidance in the future as to how its supposed to be in Arakansas. Hint.
 
Jay,
I've sent out a message to the Law officers in the FWS. You are 100% right, the guys I went down there with me made me feel like the bad egg.

If I was to hunt Arkansas again I wouldn't use these outfitters....

http://waterfowlexpress.net/index.html
http://www.greenheadgunners.com/index.htm

I only listed some of the things I saw, but the e-caller was a major issue with me. I didn't see Canvasbacks taken, but saw a carcass from and earlier hunt.

I'm just disgusted with the bunch, and couldn't wait to get home.
 
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God Bless you for your excellent show of ethics and good consience, Jack!
Eventually, that bag of garbage will receive his just reward--hopefully, before the end of season!
Man, I salute your spirit!

P.S.
hope you neither paid nor tipped the sob!
 
The outlaws assured me that the CO was great friends with the land owner, and that a head up call would alert them before the feds came down. I believed him, since the owner was the one shooting the rifle.
Click to expand...
A lot of criminal type idiots think or say they are great friends with the law in the area. Most of the times they aren't. No way is the CO going to stand up for them if you report this to the main office or better yet to the feds. Telling you they are all friends is kind of like those signs that say "Protected by Smith and Wesson", not many test it to see if it really is so. Most likely they already know about this group. The problem for most law enforcement isn't knowing who is breaking the law but being able to prove it. btw Landowners shooting geese with a rifle always sounds like a good idea until someone gets killed in a decoy spread. It happened in SD and I think, at least I hope, it has slowed down that practice around here. Tim
 
Wow, I just sat down and read and then re-read the entire story. I guide almost every day of the Texas waterfowl season and its guys like this that make it hard to book and also make it much harder to impress clients. I've had clients come and the first thing they do is start bitching about past guided hunts they've been on. This normally goes one of two ways, I spend the next few days changing there minds or I spend the next few days hearing them complain and unless they shoot a banded albino redhead they normally stiff me on a tip. There is most definetly a fine line here. First, people that pay to hunt want to shoot birds, thats for sure. If someone says they dont mind getting skunked while paying 200 bucks a day, well lets just say I've never met them. Secondly, guides are expected to be better than average callers, period. If I get a guy that thinks he's JEff Foiles in my blind, I will spend all day trying to help him get better. Or at least occupy him in conversation so it dosnt sound like a Friggin calling contest around us. And I think the biggest thing is, people want the whole package, and thats what this guide surely dosnt give a crap about. I try to tell people that you can find guides in any area that will show you birds and maybe get you some shooting but its much harder to find the ones that care about everything else thats going on. I send out a paper to my clients when they book asking if they have any special needs as in not being able to walk through mud, hunt from layout blinds, etc... I believe this should be done to increase comfort levels for me and my clients both. I've had guys BS me before, show up, get stuck in the mud then tell me I should have known they had arthritis in there knees or something like that. Just remember be honest with your guide and Tell him in very clear detail what you expect out of the hunt and what your capable of doing and you will be better off in the long run. I think if you called this guy out on being an A-hole and he didnt change how he was doing things, you need to hang him out to dry! As for the guide shooting at ducks, I've found to keep my gun down all the time unless i'm batting cleanup for my guys, EXCEPT- when my clients invite me to shoot with them which happens often, or if my clients have missed shots all day long or are not shooting when I call the shots. It happens often when it seems to save some face with people if they are sucky shots but come home with ducks to show there buddies or wifes. And lastly my big pet peive as a guide is when I call the shot and noone shoots or makes an attempt to shoot. I will sometimes join in after the second or third time of this happening to proove that yes, its an easy shot to make.
I guess what I'm saying in a round about way is that a good guide should be just as concerned about your happiness level during the hunt as he is in getting you ducks or geese. This guy didnt give a crap. Screw him, even if you dont say anything that guy wont be around long running a service like that. I'm sorry you had to go so far to learn not to hunt with him again. Just try not to let this affect how you aproach your next guided duck hunt, odds are it will be much better.
Thats just my two cents.
Capt. John Ven Huizen
 
Can you stop your check? I'd like to see them press for a reason to fight you on it. If it was a credit card, that would even be better. Sorry you had bad time. This dude was actually making you an outlaw by association..if the CO's would have come down on that field, you would have been arrested right along with them. THAT would have been fun huh?
 
You should report them. There must be a guide association there. I am sure they don't like guides like that. DNR should know about it too. You should have to pay for that type of crap, no one should.
 
Hey Captain, I agree with you across the board. As far as shooting goes, that has been my experience guiding waterfowl hunts, which I prefer not to do.
 
Lee,
The money was cash up front. I wasn't bent about that, I'll make more god willing. The tip ... no way in hell.

I made the point to the group that all of us would get tickets for the events that were going on if not locked up. They were oblivious to the regs. and felt I was over reacting.


Capt John,
I'm a good shot up to 50 yds, but normally I like them a little bit closer. The shots to take them were starting at 50 yds.
I did convince the guide to let one bird work the rig, he came in at 20 yds, before my friend dropped the hammer. I was operating the jerk string while the guide called (not the e-caller)--- somewhere in that picture I felt like I was being a guide but at least it was a clean kill.
 
Thanks George,
My feelings were split, I wanted out fast but my "friends" were there to hunt (shoot) birds. I just couldn't take it anymore and let them know I'm going home. The ride back, they still couldn't figure out why I was upset with the entire hunt. My one "friend" has been using this guide for a couple of years, so the guide and him are "friends" He knows how I hunt. It was like putting oil and water in a blind, I was outnumbered, but I had the keys.
 
I wasnt trying to say the guide was in the right at all for shooting, I was just giving an example on my end as to one of the reasons I might shoot while guiding. From the story and your concern, you are obviously a duck hunter not a hunter wanting to try duck hunting, big differance. Those are the ones that need the extra help with the shooting. If you had the drive to go that far by truck to shoot ducks late in ther season, common sense says you should be good at the sport. I apologize if it sounded like It was your fault for him shooting, NOT what I was going for. As for the jerk strink, if the jackass was using an e-caller, why wasnt he doing the jerk string?

You really need to find out if there is a guides Association like stated earlier. The one I'm in will run you out for crap like that. And without being in the Association its hard to survive. A place like that has to have one.
 
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