Why don't we shoot hawks anymore?

tod osier

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OK, I know the answer to that question (and I know that some people still do), but when did it go out of vogue to blast those pesky game eating raptors? I've read plenty of turn of the century stuff that talks of shooting hawks and I'm currently enjoying a re-read of some Aldo Leopold essays where he talks of wacking an accipiter here and there, so when did the change happen? 30s, 40s, 50s? What drove it? Enforcement or cultural?

T
 
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1972 - added to the migratory bird treaty

and because they were becoming scarce

i remember as a kid they were a rare sight where I grew up. Now they are on every three along the highway
 
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1972 - added to the migratory bird treaty

and because they were becoming scarce

i remember as a kid they were a rare site where I grew up. Now they are on every three along the highway

I had assumed that the MBTA included raptors since 1918.

It seems as if it was out of vogue before the 70s, but that was before my time and just my impression from what I've read. So hawks were actively shot until 1972? I know they are still shot, I've run across my fair share over the years.
 
To add to Rick's correct answers. In 1972 the US- Mexico Treaty was amended to have it conform with the new US-Japan Treaty. Thats when there were several major changes. Raptors, Corvids, cormorants all were added then.
 
To add to Rick's correct answers. In 1972 the US- Mexico Treaty was amended to have it conform with the new US-Japan Treaty. Thats when there were several major changes. Raptors, Corvids, cormorants all were added then.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I have never read that. So were raptors commonly and openly shot right up until 1972?
 
I can remember seeing pole traps in the 1970s, I didn't know anyone that openly shot raptors but it wouldn't surprise me.

My first boss told me his first job in the late 1950s as a fisheries technician was to shoot bald eagles on salmon streams.
 
I am almost certain that I have read in books and magazines from the 50s and 60s about hawks and golden eagles being considered vermin.
My grandfather who was not a fan of hunting always kept a shotgun handy to protect his poultry. I'm sure he shot some until the law changed...wink wink

Part of the reason it may have seemed like the shooting of them slowed down before then was that there were fewer of them. Ask pigeon fanciers who were active in the 70s if there were many hawks. The answer will be not even close to as many as there are now.

Tim
 
Have you ever eaten one? They are terrible; almost as bad as cormorants or gulls!!!

Haha just kidding. I remember reading through my old field and stream magazines where they say to shoot all hawks.

I enjoy watching them and have had bald eagles swing after my deke's (they should be decoy judges lol). Now swan blasting is what im looking foward to.
 
I am almost certain that I have read in books and magazines from the 50s and 60s about hawks and golden eagles being considered vermin.
My grandfather who was not a fan of hunting always kept a shotgun handy to protect his poultry. I'm sure he shot some until the law changed...wink wink

Part of the reason it may have seemed like the shooting of them slowed down before then was that there were fewer of them. Ask pigeon fanciers who were active in the 70s if there were many hawks. The answer will be not even close to as many as there are now.

Tim

You may be right on the 50s and 60s and 70s (all before my time as a hunter). I've probably read the least from those times. Maybe some old timers can tell us some good hawk killing stories.

I had a nice overhead passing shot at a fish hawk today.
 
Have you ever eaten one? They are terrible; almost as bad as cormorants or gulls!!!

Haha just kidding. I remember reading through my old field and stream magazines where they say to shoot all hawks.

I enjoy watching them and have had bald eagles swing after my deke's (they should be decoy judges lol). Now swan blasting is what im looking foward to.

Don't you just leave the raptors in the field like herons and kingfishers?

What about swan blasting? Is there something I haven't heard about?
 
Hawk Mountain Sanctuary on Kittatinny Ridge in Pennsylania likely had more of a impact in changes not only public opinion but laws as well regarding the shooting of Hawks and Owls and Eagles....

In 1938 a portion of what was once a well known migration corridor for Raptors was incorporated as the HAWK MTN SANCTUARY....Establish in an effort to curtail the slaughter of migrating hawks along the ridge.....

The Ridge was a slaughter house peopled by "sportsman", (I make no judgement here since at the time shooting hawks was considered "correct" by Game Dept's), who went there to not only enjoy shooting hawks but to also collect the 5.00 per bird Bounty that the Pennsylvania Game Commission offered for every Goshawk shot during migration.....I'd guess that amongst todays hunters there are 1 in a 100 that have ever seen a Goshawk and that the gulf between seeing one and knowing what it was is a factor of X's 100 so you can imagine that sitting on a ridge with a shotgun in your hand and knowing that a single Goshawk would pay for your gas and your shells and your chew and your "who hit john" that "every hawk was a Goshawk" till it was either "in hand" or the claim was denied by the Bounty Agent....

Migration counts along this ridge is consistent for at least two months and perfect weather conditions can produce thousands of hawk sightings in a day...in 1932 local birder photographed hundreds of dead hawks and those photos were published in BIRD LORE the predecessor of Audubon....publicity from the photos resulted in the Hawk Mtn Sanctuary in 1938. Game Commission Bounties continued till 1951 and hunting continued on Kittatinny Ridge outside the Sanctuary, though in dwindling numbers, past even the date of the Bounty cancellation....

The Refuge brought the Hawk Slaughter to the publics attention and the general consensus was that it was not only "wrong" but "bad"....Game Commission Predator Control doctrine began to change, (for historical reference see the enormous failure of the Arizona Game Dept. to increase Deer numbers on the Kaibab Plateau by removing all apex predator as this is in the same ... If has sharp teeth, claws or talons KILL IT....mind set period), Public pressure mounted, Raptors numbers had been reduced and persistent pesticides entered the arena.....

I can't imagine anyone not knowing about that problem so I'll leave it with public opinion had changed and raptor numbers were low, and getting lower as a result of pesticides....entire populations of raptors were either gone or nearly so and species stood on the brink of extinction......the inclusion of Raptors in the Migratory Bird Treaty grew out of that gave the States, many who had introduced their own laws to prevent it, the teeth it needed....

Sadly I see dead Hawks and Owls every year, all year, that I know, or suspect, were shot.....everyone that makes the news is a slap in the face of responsible hunters not just because its against the law but because everyone was shot by a HUNTER, (as far as any reporting goes)......

Lots of arguments on any Upland site you visit about the need to kill every Hawk and Owl that flies....another topic of discussion for sure...


Steve
 
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Can we re-amend the US-Japan treaty to now permit the shooting of Cormorants? I could have a field day on Cormorants. They are everywhere. Seem to be very invasive.

Not to take away from the discussion of shooting hawks. I have never been in a position to not like them, so I wouldn't understand the need for killing them. I especially like that little brown one with Foghorn Leghorn. . . I'm a chicken hawk!
 
Not to take away from the discussion of shooting hawks. I have never been in a position to not like them, so I wouldn't understand the need for killing them. I especially like that little brown one with Foghorn Leghorn. . . I'm a chicken hawk!

Like you, I've never really had a reason not to like them... The people that I know who have chickens, however....

Knowing the hawk mountain story and the history of hunters shooting hawks, I'm still surprised that it was Federal Law in 1972 that stopped it - not shocked or stunned, but surprised. Interesting info everyone.
 
Can we re-amend the US-Japan treaty to now permit the shooting of Cormorants? I could have a field day on Cormorants. They are everywhere. Seem to be very invasive.

There is little chance of amending a Treaty, that requires the State Dept. agreeing, then them taking it to the other country and convincing them to change and then get the President to sign and send it to the Senate for ratification.

Native species can be overabundant but we usually don't use the term invasive for natives. Overabundant is the preferred term. Cormorants are considered overabundant and there are control programs in the South and Midwest.
 
Thanks Brad. I didn't realize they were a native species. For some reason I was under the understanding that they were introduced to the US.

Chad A
 
In the 50's & 60's it was common to shoot hawks, owls, and there were many trappers that kept predators in check. There were game birds aplenty back then, and habitat. Now a days much less habitat, less small game, game birds, and predators aplenty. I was told by a officer of the PGC that 80% of stocked pheasants are killed by predators two days after being stocked. This was over 15 years ago, and he said the cost to raise one pheasant was $40. Yet PA still tries to establish a resident population, even after the Sichuan Pheasant failure.

I have never shot a hawk or owl, nor ever will even if it were legal. "Can't have game birds if ya have predators" is what I have been told by many landowners, ranchers, and farmers in what used to be the great pheasant hunting states. Now it's loss of habitat not predators that's taking a greater toll.

If you have ever seen a Goshawk chase a Ruffed Grouse through the woods it's a sight you will never forget. Incredible birds hawks and owls...
 
I am almost certain that I have read in books and magazines from the 50s and 60s about hawks and golden eagles being considered vermin.
My grandfather who was not a fan of hunting always kept a shotgun handy to protect his poultry. I'm sure he shot some until the law changed...wink wink

Part of the reason it may have seemed like the shooting of them slowed down before then was that there were fewer of them. Ask pigeon fanciers who were active in the 70s if there were many hawks. The answer will be not even close to as many as there are now.

Tim

You may be right on the 50s and 60s and 70s (all before my time as a hunter). I've probably read the least from those times. Maybe some old timers can tell us some good hawk killing stories.

I had a nice overhead passing shot at a fish hawk today.

I could have shot a Redtail that decoyed to a turkey decoy once upon a time. The "womp" that it made hitting a plastic decoy was nearly as loud as a shot.

One thing I do know about shooting hawks, if you think hunters have a tough time IDing ducks they would never get it right if they could shoot only a couple species of raptors. While it might be arguable that some day there may be hawks that could withstand some limited hunting there is no way it would work...but a big old winter Rough-Leg would make a neat mount.

Tim
 
In the marsh one day a very old hunter told me ,while complaining about the lack of ducks," in the old days every farmer had a .22 behind the kitchen door and when he saw a hawk he shot it"
Ken
 
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