Wi Open water/concealment regs....

As with everything in life, I have experienced both good and bad when it comes to game wardens. I truly appreciate the good and have no respect for the bad. Fortunately, I've mostly had more good than bad. It is the bad that sticks with one unfortunately.

Mark W
 
I probably overstated my opposition to open water hunting in MN . . . I guess we are down to "only" 60k duck hunters now (120k 10 years ago) but for those who haven't lived or hunted in MN, it's really difficult to grasp the "enthusiasm" with which MN'ans pursue their recreation - Despite having only half the hunters of 10 years ago, anytime you find ducks, you also find hunters. Maybe open water would be fine on a few of the bigger lakes - Winni, Leech, Mille Lacs, etc.

In my vast experience, hunters as a group are not respectful of other hunters - from South Dakota to the UP - it's the same ol crapola. The reason it works in other areas is they don't have the number or "enthusiasm" that MN (and probably WI) hunters exhibit. (bare in mind here, I'm not exactly using "enthusiasm" in a positive way considering the way people exhibit it.)

In MN, people will always go where the action is . . . if it's in the marsh, they go there. If it's open water, they'll be there. The ducks get zero rest in this state unless it's mandated by law - seasons, shooting hours, refuges, and open water is about it. There simply aren't enough ducks in this state to go around.

As for number of people in a layout "crew" My entire layout career, short as it has been, has been hunting solo out of a sneakbox. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one smart enough to operate that way.
 
The picture below was taken in an area where the open bay is protected. It is unlawful to hunt the birds in the open water and folks are charged if they are seen harassing them. It is legal to hunt within 300 meters of prominent growth. That leaves miles of water for the birds to rest. A late November bird census identified over 90,000 divers using the area to rest.

There is no doubt in my mind that the hunting would not be half as good if hunters could pressure the birds in the open water. Sorry about the lousy picture but it serves to illustrate my point.

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John, you cannot layout hunt in MN.. In WI you can on Green Lake, Petenwell Flowage, Lake Pepin, Lake Winnebago, and the Great Lakes. There are specific regulations for those bodies of water.
 
Jay, just curious why you would say that???

So in 50 years we can look back and see that the same stupid DNR has the same stupid laws and will NOT do what works in 48 other states???? It is just a classic case of a very small minority who are in positions of power who make stupid laws/rules. Then when confronted with facts and contradictory arguements they claim historical precedence. When you point to other historical facts that counter their arguements, they then try to claim that those in power above them really run the show and they are just minons and have to take abuse from both sides so please pity them since they are just government employees trying to do the best they can given the circumstances, politics of the day and of course....budget cuts...so can we just please give them a break!??!?!?

I guess you know where I stand on this law huh?

Mike Trudel's comment (still like Ye Olde Duck Toller better Mike....) on the refuge system not truly working here in WI since the rest of the lake is not closed to other recreational boating/fish and I will attest that every damn one of them likes to roust ducks off the water. They must feel like they are watching a Nova show or Nature or something seeing all those ducks flying in the air...only to settle right back down a 1/4 mile away or actually swing wide, then settle in almost the exact same spot. I will assure you, a boater who sees a flock, hell even 1 sea gull close to their path gets all excited and you see a course change so they can get that bird off the water....How is this allowing a refuge???

If you simplifed the rules to things like 100ft from shore, in any water/concellment that you choose. Fine. If you insist that it can be a single pencil reed if it is rooted to the bottom of the lake/river etc. fine. Just simply declare a simple rule that any idiot can read in 5 seconds, realize there really is no ambiguity to it, and go hunting. Why you would need 2 pages of PICTURES and tons of prose to make this arguement/law/idiocy seem reasonable is beyond me. Think the wardens like this rule? Some will I am sure, but others see this as a HUGE headache.

Later, Jay, you know I am just poking......
 
Eric,

Your clarity of prose is profound and epitomizes my feelings exactly. I never realized how politics ruled our waterfowl laws until I became involved. It's also the reason I backed off - too much stress for me. I'll leave it to the younger guys.

Thanks!!
 
Eric,

Your clarity of prose is profound and epitomizes my feelings exactly.
Thanks!!
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Thanks Pete, I guess this blind pig found his one apple. I guess I am so tired of hearing Kent and the other head biologist/apologists complain about how they are treated.....THEY are the ones making the recommendations that become the rules!!!

Have a good day Pete.
 
Just a couple of points regarding open water regulations: Lake St. Clair is divided by US (Michigan) and Canadian borders. Michigan allows layout and other shooting in all of its waters. Canada restricts hunting to near offshore areas. The general opinion of people who hunt there is that Canada has higher quality hunting due to the fact that the ducks have space to rest and feed. As hunting pressure increases, this becomes more important. Also in the '30s, '40s,and '50s my father and I hunted Houghton Lake. The blinds on the lake seemed to be controlled by 2 or 3 resorts who set the rules. Large areas were free of blinds to provide feeding and resting areas and we all quit in mid afternoon to give the ducks a chance to settle down. With more people and high speed boats, I don't think you can rent a blind on the lake now. Does anyone even hunt there now?
 
Wow! I've never heard of such stuff. This thread was an interesting read. So as I viewed all those nice little photos and discussions about concealment, etc...I wondered about stuff I see here in VT. We call it snow, and it likely occurs in WI as well. What happens when the snow flies and knocks down the now died off emergent cover? I hunt some spots that in October you couldn't see my boat, but by December it relies on "srtifical" camo to break up the outline.

Dave
 
Actually that is a very real problem. The Ontario side of Lake St. Clair, as noted above, has strict laws about hunting open water. You need to be within 300 meters of prominent growth. Once the snow arrives and ice forms and knocks down all the reeds and grass it significant changes the opportunities. You have to find new places to hunt and the competition for spots increases.
 
Paul - I have to ask - that photo, is it Lake St. Clair? I grew up hunting there and that is a familiar sight from my teens, brought back a flood of memories for me. St. Lukes? Mitchell's?
 
This is all for emergent vegatation....from what I understand you cannot pull up along side upland vegatation, ie grass or trees and be legal.

On another note about the history, is that there were Govenors and other political figures of the state that belonged to these clubs on Koshkonong, which am sure made passing the law a bit easier. The market hunters had their own type of scull boat to lake Koshkonong that they would use. Actually my brother was just at a gentelmans house and he had a pre 1900 koshkonong scull boat that had the hole boarded up. Owner said the wardens made him to that to use the boat when he was a kid as not to be in possible violation of the open water law.
 
Paul - I have to ask - that photo, is it Lake St. Clair? I grew up hunting there and that is a familiar sight from my teens, brought back a flood of memories for me. St. Lukes? Mitchell's?
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Nick, you are correct. That is Mitchell's Bay out past the cottages. I have not hunted at St. Lukes in years. I should go back there this year.
 
Just a couple of points regarding open water regulations: Lake St. Clair is divided by US (Michigan) and Canadian borders. Michigan allows layout and other shooting in all of its waters. Canada restricts hunting to near offshore areas. The general opinion of people who hunt there is that Canada has higher quality hunting due to the fact that the ducks have space to rest and feed. As hunting pressure increases, this becomes more important. Also in the '30s, '40s,and '50s my father and I hunted Houghton Lake. The blinds on the lake seemed to be controlled by 2 or 3 resorts who set the rules. Large areas were free of blinds to provide feeding and resting areas and we all quit in mid afternoon to give the ducks a chance to settle down. With more people and high speed boats, I don't think you can rent a blind on the lake now. Does anyone even hunt there now?
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Hunted Houghton last season. If I recall, we did see some blinds out by the middle grounds but I'm not sure what you need to do to rent them. Most of our group was either in layouts or boat blinds.
 
Hi Bill,

My off the cuff response would be, "with the new rules, yes you can pull up to bank-side vegetation as long as you are within 3' of it", BUT I'd have to go back and relook at all the pictures and then maybe call Randy Stark, head warden just to be sure. What a can of worms.

I'm sure you are correct about all the other politicos of the time helping to pass that law. I spent some time at the Hoard Museum years ago doing some research on this subject and though there isn't a ton of info readily available, what I did find was quite fastinating. Was your brother out at Carcajou when he saw the Koshkonong Flats boat? Seems incredible now that wardens would make someone change a boat so it couldn't be used as intended - apparently they couldn't catch the guy in the act.
 
Wow! I've never heard of such stuff. This thread was an interesting read. So as I viewed all those nice little photos and discussions about concealment, etc...I wondered about stuff I see here in VT. We call it snow, and it likely occurs in WI as well. What happens when the snow flies and knocks down the now died off emergent cover? I hunt some spots that in October you couldn't see my boat, but by December it relies on "srtifical" camo to break up the outline.

Dave
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Dave you are correct. Once vegetation is knocked down, even if before it offered the required 50% partial concealment, it can no longer be legally hunted. Blind owners will be ticketed as well as boat hunters.

Lately the DNR has been using rip-rap to restore marshes. Sounds like a great idea, but as miles of rock create a wall to protect the marshes from wash out, they in fact close the marsh to hunting as the entire perimeter of the marsh now has a rock wall surrounding it which can not be legally hunted due to the partial concealment law.
 
Hmm, I know there were pictures I saw last year of a guy in a canoe pulled along shore underneath a tree and the heading was illegal. But it wasn't adressed in the this group of pics. Either way best of luck getting it changed to something more reasonable, til then body-boot. :)
 
Body Booting - sounds like an ideal way to hunt on Koshkonong until you get out there and find out that the bottom is what I call 'marl' but probably actually called hard muck. You can stand on it and it appears fairly solid until you don't move for half an hour and then realize your stuck. Tried it a couple of times with very limited success. The other thing is you tend to p!$$ off the private hunt club members when you set up your spread 300 yards off their shore. I talked to the local warden before the last time I did it and he told me "you are perfectly legal but you may incure the wrath of the private club" - not that I shouldn't do it just to give me a heads up. That particular opening day we set 90+ decoys and got one GWT that I believe was a flying cripple already. Haven't tried it since.
 
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