And the habitat lose as well... which is what these "conservation" orgs are feeding us to believe that we are donating too.
Saw this a few months back on the hunt quietly IG account....
- Thread starter tod osier
- Start date
Paul Taylor
Active member
I'm curious, since I don't know what State you live, where did your State get the money to install irrigation, dredge and do work on lakes, refuges and WMA's?
Wyatt Russo
Active member
Don’t worry though they’ll be another dinner with raffles or a boat/decoy show for you see how much that organization cares about waterfowl and hunting, also that your money is being well spent… yet it’ll be another spring and summer with no projects done to improve waterfowl habitat or to secure more land for hunting… now imagine they secured new hunting land that was also managed for waterfowl!
Probably from our state taxes or money from big auctions from big game tags. Multi million dollar irrigation systems in place from northern NM all the way to Texas. The wmas feed off these irrigation systems. Those same irrigation systems supply our farmers their water rights, supply the WMA's their flooding abilities, and every refuge the state has created is right off these irrigation supplies. MRGCD is a conservancy developed by the state that manages all of this. Literally hundreds and hundreds of miles of irrigation canals. They are the ones in the WMA cleaning up the roads and ensuring brush isnt over grown for birds to rest on after 1pm during the season. They are the ones who are ensuring the new irrigation went into the youth areas and ensure their is opportunity for youth to have a successful waterfowl season. For $50 a year, you can buy a key to gain access to all of this area and get to the river, which is public to hunting fowl. The state has also got with landowners around the state and developed open gate properties if people deem they do not like the amount of fowl on their property. Nothing that has been developed and created habitat for our hunters and for the fowl have been throuh any of these conservation groups. Again, as i mention in my area, the one area that was bought out from DU is an eye sore and cant remember the last time it saw a duck on it. Yet, that same marsh had a nice little secret hidden marsh in the far back, most didnt want to walk to, that could be glorious for hunting 15ish years ago when i was just a pup and coming up in the waterfowl scene. When it was managed by the state it actually held birds and provided opportunity for the hunter.
Want to know whats crazy. the dredging of the silt was actually funded by local bass guys who noticed their northern lake habitat for bass was getting worse and worse as the silt lines moved down. They do christmas tree projects every year and noticed this. They hurt fowl more than anything, because the guys that got the contract for elephant butte to be dredged out were from Louisiana. They saw how many birds came here in the winter. Every year after that, the duck commander boys are here. Meateater did a podcast a couple years back on elephant butte as well. it used to be where I could hunt that lake and see 3 other boats. Now I see 20+ boats at the ramp, and its over run with people who travel here and want to hunt fowl because social media and celebs made it popular. So I guess thats where the funding comes from. \
Do yourself a favor, look at the DU projects on their website in NM. you will see sevilleta as a huntable place on their website. Roll over to our proclamation on NMGAF website and see if anything is mentioned about sevilleta being a huntable area. You will find La Joya and Bernardo WMA's.... nothing about Sevilleta.
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I'm not interesting in voluntarily sending even $1 to someone who is going to use a portion of it to screw me over. I think you may be confusing selfish with looking out for your own best interests.
Tod & others
Do you feel those that profit from hunting should pay taxes beyond income tax? For example oil, mining, and even renewable energy companies pay for public resources. So do trucking and freight companies though highway vehicle use taxes. The list of examples goes on and on. I think the sport has become so commercialized it is time those making a profit from it be regulated and taxed. Some states do require a guide license but that isn't doing much for the resource when the fees are $100 or less and best as I can tell not checked
Do you feel those that profit from hunting should pay taxes beyond income tax? For example oil, mining, and even renewable energy companies pay for public resources. So do trucking and freight companies though highway vehicle use taxes. The list of examples goes on and on. I think the sport has become so commercialized it is time those making a profit from it be regulated and taxed. Some states do require a guide license but that isn't doing much for the resource when the fees are $100 or less and best as I can tell not checked
I think a couple days in the stocks, or a trip to the ducking stool would be nice.
You won't get an argument out of me if a tax is implemented on guides, or on those leasing their land for hunting. Tax the lessee as well. Of course, those fees would get passed on to the end user who would increasingly be limited to the wealthy. And the money would in all likelihood go to the state black hole called a General Fund.
I would guess the biggest impediment to such a tax would be the tourism boards, they see hunting bring in tons of cash and credit the guides. The other aspect is that guiding (at least for ducks) is in large measure a 60 day hobby, offsetting a seasonal workers downtime in the fall. No way does somebody make a living guiding for ducks. Then the state sees it as a way to keep people off the unemployment payroll for a couple of months, so they have a disincentive to tax the guide.
One of the violations you see fairly commonly out west is the influencers filming on public land without proper filming permits (Forest Service requires permits for commercial filming, for example). These groups are profiting from public lands and they have a disproportionately large footprint compared to a normal guy out hunting or fishing (i.e., they are disturbing/taking/impacting more).
Personally, I'd ban guides, but to answer your question yes, I do not think that guides and influencers pay proportional to what they take from the shared resource.
I encourage anyone who believes that Ducks Unlimited spends the money unwisely to take a trip to the Canadian Provinces where ducks actually breed. There are literally thousands of acres purchased by and set aside for waterfowl production with walk-in access on most. Furthermore, the vast majority of positions within DU are filled by unpaid volunteers; somewhere between 35,000-50,000 individuals who donate their time and energy. RM
I like the ban part, at least for migratory birds.
I'm torn on whether a state should allow guiding on non migratory game. I've long felt that states shouldn't be able to give preferential treatment to residents for migratory birds, but native game is up to them.RM,
I do not join, but do donate to DU and Delta as I think they do good work in the end. But as you point out, the army consists primarily of volunteers, which is part of the rub. Making six figures while recruiting volunteers to do the work doesn't sit well.
Tod & SJ
Would my hunting improve if guides were banned? Around here there are no guide services to speak of but I do think the average joe hunter who lives in a waterfowl rich area would have far better hunting opportunity were guide services not around. But that would also eliminate someone from experiencing a hunt they cannot do for themselves due to age, location, available resources, etc. So I tend to fall in the camp of let's not outlaw it but let's make them pay for the resource and keep a close eye on their actions. What about the others that profit from it? Pittman Robertson gets the gun and ammo companies. What about the decoy and gear companies? Probably them too. Of course a lot of the guiding goes on in Canada so we have zero say in that and I think there has been a considerable increase in guiding activities/harvest there.
Would my hunting improve if guides were banned? Around here there are no guide services to speak of but I do think the average joe hunter who lives in a waterfowl rich area would have far better hunting opportunity were guide services not around. But that would also eliminate someone from experiencing a hunt they cannot do for themselves due to age, location, available resources, etc. So I tend to fall in the camp of let's not outlaw it but let's make them pay for the resource and keep a close eye on their actions. What about the others that profit from it? Pittman Robertson gets the gun and ammo companies. What about the decoy and gear companies? Probably them too. Of course a lot of the guiding goes on in Canada so we have zero say in that and I think there has been a considerable increase in guiding activities/harvest there.
Big reason a bull tag in NM cost 8k-15k now. Hell, a cow tag cost 1k-4k if you dont draw. i can just have a cow butchered for cheaper to fill my freezer. Guides are ridiculous anymore and how they gobble up the landowner tags and sell to those that didnt draw a hunt. Lucky to have friends in places with corn feeders and too many does. I always fall back on that now.I like the ban part, at least for migratory birds.
I am in testy concurrence with that. That topic gets my blood boiling.
Please forgive the cut and paste:
At Ducks Unlimited, you can rest assured that your gifts are being utilized effectively. We strive to use at least 80 percent of every dollar funding our mission. Fortunately and through diligence over the last several years, DU has been able to put 86-88 cents of every dollar into our conservation mission.
Where Your Dollar Goes
During the past fiscal year, 83 percent of DU’s expenditures were converted directly to conservation work vital to ducks, geese and other wetland-dependent wildlife.
In addition to our outside auditors who ensure that we are doing what we said we would with your dollars, there are also other ways to tell if DU is effectively using your gifts. One of the most valuable certifications comes from the Better Business Bureau Wise Giving Alliance. DU meets all 20 Standards for Charity Accountability. The Alliance bases its decision on audited financial statements and a stringent 20-question rubric that reviews DU's governance and oversight, organizational effectiveness, financials, and fundraising and informational materials. You can view the report on DU at www.bbb.org/charity by clicking on "Check out a Business or Charity" and searching for Ducks Unlimited in Tennessee.
Ducks Unlimited has also received the "Top-Rated Charity" designation from the American Institute of Philanthropy. Our A- rating generally means that we spend 75 percent or more of our budget on programs, spend $25 or less to raise $100 in public support, do not hold excessive assets in reserve, and disclose basic financial information and documents to AIP and our donors.
Ducks Unlimited is committed to doing our best work with dollars you invest in our mission. We appreciate the outside validation from the organizations above, but our greatest validation comes from the continued support of people like you.
RM
At Ducks Unlimited, you can rest assured that your gifts are being utilized effectively. We strive to use at least 80 percent of every dollar funding our mission. Fortunately and through diligence over the last several years, DU has been able to put 86-88 cents of every dollar into our conservation mission.
Where Your Dollar Goes
During the past fiscal year, 83 percent of DU’s expenditures were converted directly to conservation work vital to ducks, geese and other wetland-dependent wildlife.
In addition to our outside auditors who ensure that we are doing what we said we would with your dollars, there are also other ways to tell if DU is effectively using your gifts. One of the most valuable certifications comes from the Better Business Bureau Wise Giving Alliance. DU meets all 20 Standards for Charity Accountability. The Alliance bases its decision on audited financial statements and a stringent 20-question rubric that reviews DU's governance and oversight, organizational effectiveness, financials, and fundraising and informational materials. You can view the report on DU at www.bbb.org/charity by clicking on "Check out a Business or Charity" and searching for Ducks Unlimited in Tennessee.
Ducks Unlimited has also received the "Top-Rated Charity" designation from the American Institute of Philanthropy. Our A- rating generally means that we spend 75 percent or more of our budget on programs, spend $25 or less to raise $100 in public support, do not hold excessive assets in reserve, and disclose basic financial information and documents to AIP and our donors.
Ducks Unlimited is committed to doing our best work with dollars you invest in our mission. We appreciate the outside validation from the organizations above, but our greatest validation comes from the continued support of people like you.
RM
Was this copied and pasted from their website? If not and this is your words, you should be hired by them. Maybe take a small chunk of that 600k the ceo is taking home yearly. Well said, you almost... ALMOST... made me go make a donation just now.
Dont take my little bit of negativity in my area to say they are all bad. I just know what they did here and how inneffective it felt. Im not saying they are not doing great things in other places of the country. NM is not a waterfowl state. its a big game state. Do we have waterfowl, yup, but its getting poorer and poorer and more and more out of staters show up. It is what it is. people come and they go. Ive played this game long enough to watch some players play and those same players fade off when seasons get tough. We have a great season (like last year) and the next season, EVERYONE is here. We have a crap season (like this season) and people stop coming. Just the nature of the beast. I dont much hunt NM anymore as it is, I have no issue traveling and capitalizing on other states public grounds and fowl when it is terrible here. it really is getting worse and worse, and I say it a lot, if lack of migration continues, we wont have a waterfowl season 15-20 years from now. Cant remember the last time a canada band was killed in NM, that I know of, and it used to be pretty regular season after season. I bet its been 10 years the last time I knew about a canada band killed.
This has what to do with the fact that CEO salary is 600K and that many feel it is too high given the benefits that DU provides?
Yes, I should have mentioned that it was taken from DU's website. My point in posting that is I research charities before donating and their numbers are unheard of. I understand your frustration in your home state. Minnesota also used to have alot of ducks that we are not seeing now but that doesn't stop me from sharing their vision to fill the sky with ducks. RM
I disagree with the hammering on guides.
First, I totally get what has made people feel thay way - and share the distaste and even vitriol for the influencer/guides. Would love to find a way to eliminate/ban them.
I've used guides in Currituck Sound and surrounding areas for decades. Unless you're a member of one of the six-figure clubs or one of the old blind license holders (or lucky enough to win the lotto on one as they come available), it's the only way to hunt that area. Pretty much every possible blind location is taken and you can't hunt within xxx yards of a blind.
The guides I've used are commercial fishermen, crabbers, ferry boat captains, etc. - all watermen who make their living in those waters, and who guide in the winter because they love the area and waterfowling. Some have been long-term guides for one of the clubs, and have rights to lease and guide in certain club blinds when not being used. These clubs have hundreds (some thousands) of acres and blinds, 90% of which are unused at any given time. At any rate, these guides aren't minting money - they're supplementing family income and doing something they love in the same way we all do when hunting. They're (generally) great story-tellers about the region and its history, and they're very conservation-oriented.
I use a guide when I hunt dove in S Texas. He (and his team) are locals with other jobs (farmers, LEOs, etc.) thay work their tails off working with farmers to make land and habitat available and productive. They are extremely protective of their resources, spreading pressure, etc. because they know if something gets shot out their clients in following weeks will be screwed (and won't come back). They've helped a lot of "smaller" farmers stay in business with hunting income thay might have otherwise gone to big business.
I use guides from time to time for fishing outside of my home area, too.
Personally, I love using guides in other areas because I can learn from them about the area, its history, and the specific history of game in the area.
Again, there are definitely bad egg guides, newbies trying to make a buck by guiding, and influencer/abuser types. But the overwhelming number of guides I've used are no different than most of us, love the game/sport as we do, and enjoy being out with likeminded sportsmen and sharing their resources and expertise. They charge as a way of offsetting some of the costs of their passions, and maybe helping make ends meet, and they arent taking advantage of people or abusing resources.
First, I totally get what has made people feel thay way - and share the distaste and even vitriol for the influencer/guides. Would love to find a way to eliminate/ban them.
I've used guides in Currituck Sound and surrounding areas for decades. Unless you're a member of one of the six-figure clubs or one of the old blind license holders (or lucky enough to win the lotto on one as they come available), it's the only way to hunt that area. Pretty much every possible blind location is taken and you can't hunt within xxx yards of a blind.
The guides I've used are commercial fishermen, crabbers, ferry boat captains, etc. - all watermen who make their living in those waters, and who guide in the winter because they love the area and waterfowling. Some have been long-term guides for one of the clubs, and have rights to lease and guide in certain club blinds when not being used. These clubs have hundreds (some thousands) of acres and blinds, 90% of which are unused at any given time. At any rate, these guides aren't minting money - they're supplementing family income and doing something they love in the same way we all do when hunting. They're (generally) great story-tellers about the region and its history, and they're very conservation-oriented.
I use a guide when I hunt dove in S Texas. He (and his team) are locals with other jobs (farmers, LEOs, etc.) thay work their tails off working with farmers to make land and habitat available and productive. They are extremely protective of their resources, spreading pressure, etc. because they know if something gets shot out their clients in following weeks will be screwed (and won't come back). They've helped a lot of "smaller" farmers stay in business with hunting income thay might have otherwise gone to big business.
I use guides from time to time for fishing outside of my home area, too.
Personally, I love using guides in other areas because I can learn from them about the area, its history, and the specific history of game in the area.
Again, there are definitely bad egg guides, newbies trying to make a buck by guiding, and influencer/abuser types. But the overwhelming number of guides I've used are no different than most of us, love the game/sport as we do, and enjoy being out with likeminded sportsmen and sharing their resources and expertise. They charge as a way of offsetting some of the costs of their passions, and maybe helping make ends meet, and they arent taking advantage of people or abusing resources.
I don't know Tod, compare it to Black Lives Matter or the Humane Society. It seems everybody's beef is with the bingo and gun raffles that the volunteer local chapters put on but then complain when they hire an obviously very capable CEO to run a very successful multinational charitable organization. You can't have it both ways.
RM