Arkansas Opener Video from Public Land

[William Reinicke]

Jeff,

In the first year or two of spinners, I would have wholeheartedly agreed with your first sentence. I saw things that were borderline obscene. Ducks would drop straight down from 200 yards, no calling, no hesitation. I saw a flock of widgeon get busted, go out, turn around, and come back over to get shot again. I watched ducks try to land on a spinner with a group of four people standing within 15 yards of it in an open rice field, talking and laughing after the hunt while people were going to get the ATV's. That's when I made up my mind that I would never own one.

I think there is some conditioning to them now, and I believe the effectiveness is less, but I think it does affect young birds and certain species more than others. I hear plenty of people say, "they aren't as effective as you think, and most days they don't do anything but flare ducks...", but when I say, "then don't take it", I get the, "wellllll...you can't always tell...and it might make the difference in killing ducks or not..."

That said, I hate the damn things, and I wish Arkansas would go the other way and ban them outright. I don't care what the other states do, and I don't care what landowners and guides and Mack's Prairie Wings or Mojo or whomever wants.

I agree with everything said here. First couple years, I watched mallard fall out of the skies like basketballs from 200+ yards up. They were specks in the sky and all you would hear was the sound of a jet engine as they literally cut wind to get down to that spinner. Still to this day, a spinner in a corn field is about the dumbest thing I have ever seen. But fast forward to today.... I have 2 and they are strictly for those corn field hunts when I stumble on them. Its rare to see ducks in any other field around here, but I am sure it holds true to other field hunts as well. I havent used a spinner in a water set in 3-4 years now. Every so often, I think they may be effective and I pack them.... and then I get to the hole and just leave them in the boat. Now, I do hunt at least 2 lucky duck agitators and will use as many as 4-6 if I can. I LOVE the movement they put off in a spread and I think that is much more natural movement. The first time I ever used the higdon style, where the legs spun and splashed the water, we had 10 drake mallard dead in 8 minutes. We had ducks trying to land on top of that movement with the dog fetching a bird 5 yards away. At that point, we were using jerk strings again and no spinners. This was just a way to get rid of the jerk string is all, but for some reason seemed far more effective. Even to this day, that agitation on the water seems to kill birds better than any spinner and I will stick with this technique for movement. Plus I like not having to fiddle around with wings anymore. Push a button and toss it out with the rest of the decoys. EASY PEASY!

 

[Jeff Reardon]

Jeff,

In the first year or two of spinners, I would have wholeheartedly agreed with your first sentence. I saw things that were borderline obscene. Ducks would drop straight down from 200 yards, no calling, no hesitation. I saw a flock of widgeon get busted, go out, turn around, and come back over to get shot again. I watched ducks try to land on a spinner with a group of four people standing within 15 yards of it in an open rice field, talking and laughing after the hunt while people were going to get the ATV's. That's when I made up my mind that I would never own one.

I think there is some conditioning to them now, and I believe the effectiveness is less, but I think it does affect young birds and certain species more than others. I hear plenty of people say, "they aren't as effective as you think, and most days they don't do anything but flare ducks...", but when I say, "then don't take it", I get the, "wellllll...you can't always tell...and it might make the difference in killing ducks or not..."

That said, I hate the damn things, and I wish Arkansas would go the other way and ban them outright. I don't care what the other states do, and I don't care what landowners and guides and Mack's Prairie Wings or Mojo or whomever wants.

I'm kind of disappointed that Tod Osier has not chimed in with a photo of a shotgun-blasted Mojo. Those were common in my early days here.

 

[Rick Pierce]

I'm kind of disappointed that Tod Osier has not chimed in with a photo of a shotgun-blasted Mojo. Those were common in my early days here.

When Arkansas banned them initially, there were several of those pics/vids going around.

I was always disappointed in the MS Flyway because Arkansas and I think one other state wanted a flyway-wide ban, and they were told, "you do it first, and we will follow...", and then the other states backed out after Arkansas instituted a ban. It was a tacit admission that they worked and nobody wanted the backlash.

 

[Clinton John]

That stupidity right there is why I will never hunt Arkansas public again after last year.

I don't know the kid doing the vid, but him and everyone with him in that vid is what's wrong with waterfowl hunting now. Don't really care if my opinion ruffles feathers.

The only way to stop the idiotic behavior seen on those wma's goes like this.

Hull length and width restrictions.(15x48 max)

Motor hp, prop size, number of blades, exhaust restrictions.(2 blade,23 horse,9 inch)

Aluminum hull thickness restrictions, nothing over .100 thickness(all the driving and jumping over logs,tress and brush would stop right quick)

Hunting party size restrictions(3 adults or 2 adults and no more then 3 juveniles 15 and under)

Set clear and highly enforced first come first served rules and a 300 yard min space rule and enforce the crap out of it with very high fines and loss of hunting rights.1000 bucks first offense and 1 year lost of license, doubles each offense afterwards and complete lost of hunting rights after third offense)

Ban all video making of hunts to be posted online unless you pay for a single day 500 dollar permit.

Even with the so called rules in place, people absolutely do sleep in their boats in the woods to secure a spot and will pay highschool kids to work in teams to keep a hole locked up(seen it first hand last year)

Banning of all guided hunts on public lands.(some states allow it, not sure about Arkansas)

Shot size and ported chokes restrictions.

Ban on spinning wing decoys

Banning of all led lights and light bars.

500 dollar fine for music while boat is in the water( disturbance of nature)

Yep that about sums it up, do all those things and the flat brim weekend warrior internet bro dozer driving trash will remove themselves from the equation. Bam more room and more ducks.

All that said I'm fat and I run a surface drive. Wish I didn't need the mudmotor but it's a sad reality of where and how I hunt 99% of the time.

 

[Rick Pierce]

That stupidity right there is why I will never hunt Arkansas public again after last year.

I don't know the kid doing the vid, but him and everyone with him in that vid is what's wrong with waterfowl hunting now. Don't really care if my opinion ruffles feathers.

The only way to stop the idiotic behavior seen on those wma's goes like this.

Hull length and width restrictions.(15x48 max)

Motor hp, prop size, number of blades, exhaust restrictions.(2 blade,23 horse,9 inch)

Aluminum hull thickness restrictions, nothing over .100 thickness(all the driving and jumping over logs,tress and brush would stop right quick)

Hunting party size restrictions(3 adults or 2 adults and no more then 3 juveniles 15 and under)

Set clear and highly enforced first come first served rules and a 300 yard min space rule and enforce the crap out of it with very high fines and loss of hunting rights.1000 bucks first offense and 1 year lost of license, doubles each offense afterwards and complete lost of hunting rights after third offense)

Ban all video making of hunts to be posted online unless you pay for a single day 500 dollar permit.

Even with the so called rules in place, people absolutely do sleep in their boats in the woods to secure a spot and will pay highschool kids to work in teams to keep a hole locked up(seen it first hand last year)

Banning of all guided hunts on public lands.(some states allow it, not sure about Arkansas)

Shot size and ported chokes restrictions.

Ban on spinning wing decoys

Banning of all led lights and light bars.

500 dollar fine for music while boat is in the water( disturbance of nature)

Yep that about sums it up, do all those things and the flat brim weekend warrior internet bro dozer driving trash will remove themselves from the equation. Bam more room and more ducks.

All that said I'm fat and I run a surface drive. Wish I didn't need the mudmotor but it's a sad reality of where and how I hunt 99% of the time.

Arkansas has shot size and shell limit restrictions on many of the WMA's. Some also have HP restrictions, but on Black River, that's just not a possibility and could be a liability for G&F. Same with the hulls - in some of the WMA's, you could run a 12-foot boat, but there are some that on high water, an 18-foot boat would not be out of the question.

In the flooded timber, first come first served is a great idea, but as a practical matter it's almost unenforceable. It would be a lot of "he said/he said" type bs, and which group do you believe? The guy by himself who was there first, or the six guys who all claim he came in on them a half hour before shooting light and set up 50 yards away? Somewhat the same with the 300 yard rule; some days, you could set up 100 yards away and it doesn't matter, particularly if the groups honor each other on the ducks working.

Number in a hunting party is another sticky thing - 7 guys in one timber hole versus now 3 groups that all have to be 300 yards apart...it makes the crowding even worse.

Arkansas has 85-90,000 hunters where they used to have 35,000. And everyone wants to be on the X as the hunting quality here continues to get worse. Unfortunately, you can't legislate courtesy, morality, and plain old common sense. And you have about two generations or so that expect every hunt to be like the videos they see; when it's only about the pile and the "likes", you get bad behavior like limits of uncleaned mallards being thrown in a ditch, people asking other people to "borrow" ducks for a tailgate shot to make a bigger pile, and a continuous stream of "me first", expressed however.

 

[Clinton John]

Arkansas has shot size and shell limit restrictions on many of the WMA's. Some also have HP restrictions, but on Black River, that's just not a possibility and could be a liability for G&F. Same with the hulls - in some of the WMA's, you could run a 12-foot boat, but there are some that on high water, an 18-foot boat would not be out of the question.

In the flooded timber, first come first served is a great idea, but as a practical matter it's almost unenforceable. It would be a lot of "he said/he said" type bs, and which group do you believe? The guy by himself who was there first, or the six guys who all claim he came in on them a half hour before shooting light and set up 50 yards away? Somewhat the same with the 300 yard rule; some days, you could set up 100 yards away and it doesn't matter, particularly if the groups honor each other on the ducks working.

Number in a hunting party is another sticky thing - 7 guys in one timber hole versus now 3 groups that all have to be 300 yards apart...it makes the crowding even worse.

Arkansas has 85-90,000 hunters where they used to have 35,000. And everyone wants to be on the X as the hunting quality here continues to get worse. Unfortunately, you can't legislate courtesy, morality, and plain old common sense. And you have about two generations or so that expect every hunt to be like the videos they see; when it's only about the pile and the "likes", you get bad behavior like limits of uncleaned mallards being thrown in a ditch, people asking other people to "borrow" ducks for a tailgate shot to make a bigger pile, and a continuous stream of "me first", expressed however.

So who cares.

My reply is the best way to fix the issues. Can't make a egg with out breaking eggs.

They let that stupidity go on for too long. Now the only way to break it is to break bank accounts and put people out of the game with arrest and financially burdens.

Nothing changes a mans attitude like being broke and legally stripped for time periods of hunting and fishing.

If Arkansas wants to reduce the out of state hunting pressure all they have to do is increase our of state licenses and put a season limit on the numbers of our of state licenses.

You know why Arkansas hasn't do anything to fix these issues? Because the government is making to much money off of it.

 

[Rick Pierce]

So who cares.

My reply is the best way to fix the issues. Can't make a egg with out breaking eggs.

They let that stupidity go on for too long. Now the only way to break it is to break bank accounts and put people out of the game with arrest and financially burdens.

Nothing changes a mans attitude like being broke and legally stripped for time periods of hunting and fishing.

If Arkansas wants to reduce the out of state hunting pressure all they have to do is increase our of state licenses and put a season limit on the numbers of our of state licenses.

You know why Arkansas hasn't do anything to fix these issues? Because the government is making to much money off of it.

I get it, mostly; however, the out of state license cost isn't going to deter people. Maybe at $750, but even at that there will be some. And that "breaking a few eggs" is well and good until you're the guy on the wrong end when some group swears they were there before you, and you wind up with the ticket and points on your license.

Yes, the only way to reduce the number of people on the WMA's is to limit access...that means draw. I can't see G&F ever going that route, and the residents would bring out torches and pitchforks.

I don't think the government is making too much, but duck hunting unfortunately has become more of a big business than it used to be. If you want to be brutally honest, the people who are influential aren't hunting public ground for the most part; they are gunning private ground. They don't care about the WMA's as long as the whining doesn't get too loud, because they know that no matter what they do, some group is going to be unhappy. It seriously becomes a game of who is the least unhappy.

And all of this is somewhat of a moot point, because the duck hunting here is getting steadily worse. I never thought I would see this day in Arkansas, and I mean that wholeheartedly. I've hunted in Arkansas for almost 40 years. I'm guessing in ten years, max, we will be back down to selling 35,000 stamps at most, and our harvest numbers won't be in the top ten.

 

[Clinton John]

I get it, mostly; however, the out of state license cost isn't going to deter people. Maybe at $750, but even at that there will be some. And that "breaking a few eggs" is well and good until you're the guy on the wrong end when some group swears they were there before you, and you wind up with the ticket and points on your license.

Yes, the only way to reduce the number of people on the WMA's is to limit access...that means draw. I can't see G&F ever going that route, and the residents would bring out torches and pitchforks.

I don't think the government is making too much, but duck hunting unfortunately has become more of a big business than it used to be. If you want to be brutally honest, the people who are influential aren't hunting public ground for the most part; they are gunning private ground. They don't care about the WMA's as long as the whining doesn't get too loud, because they know that no matter what they do, some group is going to be unhappy. It seriously becomes a game of who is the least unhappy.

And all of this is somewhat of a moot point, because the duck hunting here is getting steadily worse. I never thought I would see this day in Arkansas, and I mean that wholeheartedly. I've hunted in Arkansas for almost 40 years. I'm guessing in ten years, max, we will be back down to selling 35,000 stamps at most, and our harvest numbers won't be in the top ten.

I'm in Louisiana. I know all to well about not having ducks.

 

[Eric Patterson]

Rick

The older I get and the more I see people management practiced by state game and fish bodies (note I said people and not wildlife) the more I think a hands off approach is needed. Hunter density, and the associated crowding problems, ebbs and flows. Today's hotspots will stop producing as pressure exceeds some threshold the birds will withstand. When success drops so do hunter numbers. Who wants to be left with a system that controls hunter numbers when it is no longer needed? Nobody. But I have doubts that when hunter numbers drops the regs will get lifted. Instead barriers to access remain. I've said it many times but all these regs do is move more hunters into tighter spaces and create more dissatisfaction. To be clear I'm talking about draws, lotteries, quotas, non-resident restrictions, etc.. When the tools of hunters become a problem, e.g. mud motors, moto ducks, etc. I'm fine with science based restrictions. I have seen these work and improve hunting.

Another problem with regs to manage people is a lot of them are driven by opinion rather than science. My own state did a study of WMA closure day's impact on duck numbers and despite overwhelming statistical evidence duck usage on closure days was no higher than hunting days they continue to close the WMAs on weekdays. One particular WMA is closed on Tue and then on Thur. A really dumb policy when you bounce it off a thorough study that was done as grad level work on the very same WMA.

You have a commission, so I know you know what I'm talking about. Policies get enacted by folks who themselves do not use the resource as public hunters do. They are usually successful entrepreneurs and politically well connected individuals that really don't get what public hunters are facing because they hunt private property. Some have never set foot on public grounds or not in decades. I think rather than governor appointed committees we need to elect committee members. Only then will people with current real world experience have a strong voice.

Not to get too far off track, my original assessment of the video was about the lack of enforcement and safety issues on full display. I'll reiterate my thoughts. Ark has a huge liability issue and unless changes are made there will be injuries/fatalities. You can only play Russian roulette so many times. The plaintiffs would like me as a juror because I think the negligence by the state is gross.

 

[RM Anderson]

In Minnesota our WMA's are motorless. I used to be critical of that policy until I watched that video. My bucket list of hunts just got a little lighter. Too bad, I really wanted to experience a timber hunt just once. Richard

 

[LI-Jack]

Wow! I‘ve been a late morning hunter these days. No crowds, everyone leaves by 9am. I have the philosophy that if I can’t shoot a duck between 10am and 3pm then it wasn’t meant to be. Last time I hunted in Arkansas was with a guide and it sucked because of the way they hunted. I see it’s even worse, and in a WMA too.
Duck hunting should be fun, not hectic. When I did get out at o’dark thirty, we would meet other hunters at the ramp and ask where they were heading. If they were on ahead of us we’d go to another spot, plenty out there.
Seeing that many ducks makes me wonder if the area was sweetened a little, but that’s me just spitballing.

No duck is worth that chaos.