HenryHawthorne
Member
I'm guessing some felt the same about the Titanic!
New - Boat build advice
- Thread starter HenryHawthorne
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William Reinicke
Active member
Terrible thing to say.... yours will stand up to an iceberg much better. you got this, and it will turn out just fine. You got lots of help around here, and even someone rooting you on.
OK, I didn't get anything but a bound set of blueprints. Good that there is a little bit more info provided now.
I remember hearing that he went to 1/2" on the hull. The original was for sure 3/8" and that is what mine is. The larger boats (Honker) I believe called for 3/8 with a cold molded 1/4" ply, but not sure.
In my guess he went to 1/2" because bottom flex. I can't comment on that because I put sheer to chine to chine to sheer bulkheads in the cockpit area vs the knees that the plans specify. The distance between the knee and the centerline of the hull is a large distance and I'd expect that there could be quite the flex between the knee and the centerline (additionally, I built my strakes much heavier than typical, to support the hull in that area in the other direction). This is what Eric did with his black brant as well.
Adding a lot of glass to 3/8" isn't going to do much for flex because it doesn't offer much strength in that dimension. I, PERSONALLY, would not build that boat with knees and no complete bulkhead. We have seen too many boats where the knees have torn loose, even smaller boats.
1/2" ply would be a PITA, but not impossible. I'm happy with 3/8" with the full bulkheads and heavy oak strakes. I have run with the hatches out of mine so I could see the hull in chop and flex isn't a problem. The building upside down may be a product of the 1/2" being tough to open like a book after stitched.
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Steve Sanford
Well-known member
Good morning, Henry~
Two thoughts re flipping your Snow Goose during the build:
1. I have a pair of chain hoists in my shop. IF YOUR CEILING JOISTS ARE STRONG ENOUGH: Is bought my chain hoists from Harbor Freight for ~ $40 each, as I recall. I did not spend 10X as much because my use if infrequent and they live inside (out of the weather).
2. With some half-inch OSB and some 2x4s, you could bolt together a pair of circular "cages" to roll the hull over. Un-bolt when she is where you need her.
All that said - a couple of young neighbor farmers - as I have - is awfully handy!
All the best,
SJS
HenryHawthorne
Member
Thanks Steve! I'll be doing most of the work in a shop a friend and I have for working on our cars - part of a small warehouse. Very high "ceilings"... though I am considering designing something by which I could lift the boat off a trailer for storage in the air when off-season/not in use to preserve floor space. I like the round OSB idea for flipping. I have an engine lift (rolling floor "crane") I could easily use to lift and hold the front from the eventual eye hook - and with the OSB idea, or maybe a homemade attachment for my rotating engine stand, flipping by myself would be fairly simple if I can't recruit a few friends.
RM Anderson
Member
Backing up a couple posts...I agree with Tod that boats with knees can be a problem best solved with chine to chine bulkheads. On my Devlin 13 poleboat, raising the floor to accommodate the extra height was not an option. My work around was to fillet the knees in West Systems G Flex wood flour and to epoxy the floor in and fiberglass tape the topside seam where the hull meets the floor. I could be wrong but I don't recall any boats where the knees separated with the floor glassed in. Of course, with a glassed in hull, you may very well never know if it did occur. Good luck with your build, Richard.
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RM Anderson
Member
I should also note on a fully sealed compartment like my floor, ventilation should be provided. In my case limber holes were drilled and sealed on the bottom of the bow bulkhead. Richard
HenryHawthorne
Member
The more I look at it and review Devlin's book, the more upside down makes sense to me. There one hangup for me is the keelson - that looks to me that it needs to be curved and fitted (and while pictured isn't dimensioned in the plans). Simple to do if using knees, but I want to follow Tod's and Eric's advice on using "open" bulkheads rathetle than knees. I also like Eric's offset keelsons to allow water to flow down the lowest point. I'm thinking that rather than 1 (or 2) long keelsons from bulkhead 3 to 6, that I can make them in sections and fit between (and bond to) each bulkhead. Open to suggestions/contrary opinions.
"Eric's offset keelsons to allow water to flow down the lowest point."
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Which boat of mine are you looking at? The way I built my Black Brant is way better than what I did in my Scaup.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Which boat of mine are you looking at? The way I built my Black Brant is way better than what I did in my Scaup.
For the longitudinal under the sole, for me it doesn't matter what you do as long as it is done well. My boat drains completely, it only holds the amount of water required to wet the surfaces - it literally won't hold an ounce of water.
I'd advocate for limber holes on the order of 1 1/2" or 2". Everything under there needs to be built with consideration that it will be the part of the boat that stays wet the most. It is a PITA, but everything under the sole needs to be carefully put together with the intention that it should be easy to seal and stay sealed. For me that means lots of rounded edges that are easy to seal and won't get breached. The limber holes in everything under sole on mine are eased with a roundover bit just like everything else in the boat. I sent you this pic, but I'll put it in here for others. I used a piece of port orford cedar for mine. It is pretty soft wood, too soft for combings, but it is nice to work with, takes epoxy well and is very rot resistant if it coating fails (also smells good).
I'd advocate for limber holes on the order of 1 1/2" or 2". Everything under there needs to be built with consideration that it will be the part of the boat that stays wet the most. It is a PITA, but everything under the sole needs to be carefully put together with the intention that it should be easy to seal and stay sealed. For me that means lots of rounded edges that are easy to seal and won't get breached. The limber holes in everything under sole on mine are eased with a roundover bit just like everything else in the boat. I sent you this pic, but I'll put it in here for others. I used a piece of port orford cedar for mine. It is pretty soft wood, too soft for combings, but it is nice to work with, takes epoxy well and is very rot resistant if it coating fails (also smells good).
Sure sounds like he it looking at the Scaup. I can't remember, do you have good build resources for the BB?
Tod
Nothing to speak of. I have posted the pictures of it, in particular the interior, many times though so Henry might have seen them or can certainly search for them. They are in Scott Gilliland's Broadbill repair thread.
duckboats.net
Nothing to speak of. I have posted the pictures of it, in particular the interior, many times though so Henry might have seen them or can certainly search for them. They are in Scott Gilliland's Broadbill repair thread.
Advice on sneakbox - AA Broadbill or MLB Wigeon
Well, I thought about it a lot. Had a friend come over and look at it and we agreed that the boat would be much mode practical without those frames.... I just cut them out. It looks much better and it is a lot easier to work on. After thinking about it this is what I decided on. I cut out...
duckboats.net
William Reinicke
Active member
This is genius! I worry about what I would find if I had my floor on my havoc aluminum boat lifted.
Tod
Nothing to speak of. I have posted the pictures of it, in particular the interior, many times though so Henry might have seen them or can certainly search for them. They are in Scott Gilliland's Broadbill repair thread.
Advice on sneakbox - AA Broadbill or MLB Wigeon
Well, I thought about it a lot. Had a friend come over and look at it and we agreed that the boat would be much mode practical without those frames.... I just cut them out. It looks much better and it is a lot easier to work on. After thinking about it this is what I decided on. I cut out...
That is how to do it! Such clean work.
Your picture of laying out the floor made me reflect on the process. One aspect I really enjoyed was taking the measurements to fit the floor, laying those measurements out cutting, grinding and fitting the floor - that was a wild piece to make.
RM Anderson
Member
I am an amateur builder but one question I have never found an answer to is why direct unwanted water to the bilge in the first place? Since a boat with outboard naturally rides lower in the stern, why not direct water to the motorwell with limber holes above the waterline? I believe this is an unnecessary carryover from aluminum boats that are impossible to seal. That would eliminate all the gunk that accumulates in the bilge and simplify wood sealing. Richard
RM Anderson
Member
...And provide a water ight compartment, elininating the need for problematic foam
Richard
Richard
RM
I direct water to a drain plug in front of the motor well with limber holes in each bulkhead and gravity. Plus I recently installed a bilge pump because the very center of the hull is lower than the motor well drain plug.
I direct water to a drain plug in front of the motor well with limber holes in each bulkhead and gravity. Plus I recently installed a bilge pump because the very center of the hull is lower than the motor well drain plug.
HenryHawthorne
Member
I may be mis-using terminology. The plans call for a 1.5" wide keelson between the 3rd and 6th bulkhead - right down the centerline (lowest point side-to-side).
@Eric Patterson - somewhere here I'd seen a picture of a boat with what amounted to 2 longitudinal below the sole, each a couple inches off the keel and mistakenly recalled it being from your Scaup build. Looking at the thread you linked I was obviously wrong, as that doesn't have what I'm calling a keelson at all. I'll dig around and see if I can find it, but after looking at Tod's picture again I'm probably overthinking it and should just stick with the single keelson with lateral limber holes as suggested.
@Eric Patterson - somewhere here I'd seen a picture of a boat with what amounted to 2 longitudinal below the sole, each a couple inches off the keel and mistakenly recalled it being from your Scaup build. Looking at the thread you linked I was obviously wrong, as that doesn't have what I'm calling a keelson at all. I'll dig around and see if I can find it, but after looking at Tod's picture again I'm probably overthinking it and should just stick with the single keelson with lateral limber holes as suggested.
RM Anderson
Member
Eric, I guess what I'm saying is why let water accumulate in the bilge in the first place? With a completely sealed floor, the water would all run to the stern (engine well). An example would be the Boston Whaler in which the hull is filled with foam. Perhaps scupper holes would be a better term than limber holes in first post. With stitch and glue, "We are unburdened by what has been".
Too soon? Richard
Too soon? Richard
That was how I did my Scaup. The above is my Black Brant. Before I sold my Scaup I had to rework the knees into chine-to-chine bulkheads. I call them cockpit cutout bulkheads The trough, as I called it, did allow water to pass but so do limber holes and I think what Tod showed above is a stronger better solution if you use a keelson.
I didn't use a keelson in my Black Brant as it is not called out in the plans. It has been my observation, from my own boats, and others posted here, most flexing is port to starboard and not stem to stern. Creating what I call cockpit cutout bulkheads and bonding the floor to them makes for a VERY RIGID structure. When you notch the floor into the cockpit bulkheads and glass all of it you lock everything together. That's my recommendation for the floor.
