It's like having kids in sports.

It can be addicting for sure. I took my first all the way through master hunter and finished in AKC/HRC. My current one gets on the short bus in major ways. She could probably pass the started and beginner tests but no further. Although its a ton of fun, I couldnt get over all the show dogs and the goldens that took 10x longer to pick up a bird or trot in the water and look back at their owner wondering why they were doing what they were doing. All so they can have a "title" next to their pedigree name for breeding purposes. It made the days too long and unenjoyable for me. Likely will never ribbon another dog for that purpose alone. Good luck in your adventures, BEAUTIFUL looking pup.
 
Congrats! If I didn’t have kids in sports I would’ve considered it with mine but I probably hunt upland too much to ribbon very high. I have learned to trust the way he hunts and his style is not conducive to running big, straight, blinds or precision handling.
 
Michael McCord1 said:
Congrats! If I didn’t have kids in sports I would’ve considered it with mine but I probably hunt upland too much to ribbon very high. I have learned to trust the way he hunts and his style is not conducive to running big, straight, blinds or precision handling.
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Precisely. Any illusions I had of "Robo Dog" were quickly dispelled by my headstrong GWP Berta. Finally, I realized that she is the one with the nose, a million times more able than mine. Lots of time afield has reinforced that trust and occasionally she even looks back at me for directions. Upland game birds are very wily and you need a dog that can think for themselves. RM
 
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RM Anderson said:
Precisely. Any illusions I had of "Robo Dog" were quickly dispelled by my headstrong GWP Berta. Finally, I realized that she is the one with the nose a million times more able than mine. Lots of time afield has reinforced that trust and occasionally she even looks back at me for directions. Upland game birds are very wily and you need a dog that can think for themselves. RM
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My Boykin will bark and tell on himself if he finds a bird too far out. That will get you a DQ but it’s sure handy in the field. He’s also figured out how to flush birds straight back to me more often than not. That means I have to loosen my control and let him stretch on out past the birds, especially when the wind is at my back.

Case in point- grouse hunting last fall, I looked at the GPS and he’s 70 yards out -way too far for a flusher and further than I like pointing dogs to get- and starts barking. I’m on the whistle trying to recall him in, assuming he’s messing with a rabbit… until the grouse flushes, giving us a 25 yard crossing shot back over the trail we’re walking. I don’t know how he could’ve handled that particular bird any better, but even in a spaniel trial, he would’ve been DQ’d for hunting off course. He often hesitates (points) before flushing woodcock, quail, pheasants, and especially planted birds- something else that will get him booted from a spaniel trial, but it puts birds in the bag.

He’s pretty darn good at what he does though, even if it doesn’t neatly fit within the rules of gun dog sports.
 
Ya I agree with you both. One of the DQ's in a water test is the dog getting out and running the bank to the bird. They want all swim. On my first dog, they set up a nasty test where the dog swam through water, got up on a point, then back in the water to the next bank to pick up the bird. Then back in the water, over the point and back in the water back to handler. Lots of dogs did fine out to the bird, but ran the bank line back to the handler or back to the point and back into the water, then to handler. My girl got it, as we worked a lot on not running the bank, for water retrieves. She was 1 of 5 dogs that passed that test that morning. LOTS of fails.

Then came the river hunt 2 weeks later. We had a nice slack water that we could set decoys, but out about 60 yards and the current was FLOWING. Then down river, it narrowed and that current just kept going for a ways. Didnt think much of it as we had 2 really good dogs that morning and the birds piled up thick on that shallow sand shelf we put the decoys. I downed a pintail, it got in some rough current and the pooch went down stream, got the bird, but then turned and got on a treadmill and no matter how hard I tried to give her hand signals to the bank line, she wouldnt touch land. My buddy kept saying, shes gonna get tired and eventually go to land, and I fed into that for about 10 minutes, but realized, she might be too stubborn to go against her training. I had to beat through russian olives, tore my waders, and came out with gashes all over my face. I had to get parallel to her, on the bank, and call her over to me, in order for her to get out of the current of the river. I knew then, not every test and DQ is real life hunting. A ribbon didnt mean that much to me anymore. From then on, I never trained out running the bank line to a water retrieve. The speedier the better for my situations anyways.
 
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@William Reinicke now that we’ve thoroughly derailed the thread…

That, and the white coats in retriever trials have never made sense to me. Why does my dog need to be able to mark and retrieve a bird that I couldn’t have possibly shot?

I realize that these scenarios exist to showcase the best of the best, but it seems like as that happens, we risk taking the hunt out of the test.

In your situation above, drop a second duck in that current and it’s half a mile downstream if the dog won’t run the bank and get back quickly with the first one.
 
Michael McCord1 said:
@William Reinicke now that we’ve thoroughly derailed the thread…

That, and the white coats in retriever trials have never made sense to me. Why does my dog need to be able to mark and retrieve a bird that I couldn’t have possibly shot?
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White coats are so the dog can see your handle out from super insane far distances. More seen in field trials vs hunt tests. I never field trialed because I didnt understand those games and the hunt tests seemed more up my alley and what seemed fun to me. I did test out the white coat theory and my first girl did run a 250 yard blind successfully with a white coat on. Best I could do in a camo jacket was 130-140 yards. At 300 though, I couldnt tell if she just lost faith/confidence in the distance or couldnt see me, but she really lost it and it wasnt overly successful. I walked in about 75 yards with her sat, and then gave a hand signal and she worked right to it again.
Michael McCord1 said:
I realize that these scenarios exist to showcase the best of the best, but it seems like as that happens, we risk taking the hunt out of the test.

In your situation above, drop a second duck in that current and it’s half a mile downstream if the dog won’t run the bank and get back quickly with the first one.
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Well, theres lots of folks that play the game and rarely hunt. Theres lots of folks who are running multiple dogs and training other hunters dogs. Multiple folks that take the dogs to a certain level and then turn and sell them for more money. I get it and most people buying these dogs are not necessarily hunting out lots of river situations. My experience, is true river hunters rarely have a well handled dog and actually promote breaking so they can get in and get out quicker, vs the pond hunter who has the steadiest most obedient dog.

So I dont disagree with lots of the tests and they sure can be fun. I had more fun getting to the master levels because those dogs were there as hunters. The little show dogs werent at that level and the tests went much quicker to get through and it was just a nice display of dog work. It did get technical though, with handle marks counted, how well the dog ran a straight line, poison birds, etc etc. I loved that level of dog work, but I was young and at the time, I thought if I had a dog that could do all that stuff, I had the best of the best hunting dog for any situation. It wasnt until I found myself in that situation, that I realized that wasnt true. I do so much diverse hunting, that I just didnt agree with some of the tests for myself and my situations, ultimately not making me a player for the higher levels of testing. Kind of made me re-evaluate actually playing the games anymore.

I do think the tests are set up to display the best of the best, especially for those that might be too old to hunt hard anymore, and this is their niche being in the dog world and holding onto their little snippet of the waterfowl world. We had an amazing handler, who showed up to tests with a cane and could barely walk, but gosh he had FINE dogs. The dogs love it as much as we do. I say it all the time, I dont think I would waterfowl without a dog at this point. Even when they arent so good, like my current little goober. But I still have tons of fun with her in the field. Plus, the really good dogs, absolutely love working through that pressure. When I was training my first, the more pressure I put on her, the more she seemed to get locked in and really love the games more. She absolutely lost her mind with excitement when she saw me pick up the shock collar, she just knew we were going to retrieve or work on stuff. Even if it was simple tune up circle drills with 10-15 yard retrieves.

So I dont want to take away from the games too much because I have hunted over some FINE master hunters in the field. I would say 85% of the finished and master hunters, hunt even better because most hunts are not as technical as a test. I do believe there is a 15% that puts those dogs in situations, where their training makes them less successful and with my style of hunting, I do believe I fall in that 15%. I had to really evaluate what was smart for me. Having a ribboned dog or a successful field dog. The field dog wins every time in my brain.

My girl failed 1 test, and it was comical. After you ran the test, you had to sit your dog at the line and let the next dog perform the test. It was to see how they minded and didnt break with the work of another dog. I would set up two dog stands and shoot pigeons on a dairy. Thats how I trained steadiness. What I never trained was for a dog running around in circles and not doing the test very well and making them sit through that for 5-7 minutes. It was shoot, let them sit for a minute, send a dog, run out pick it up, back to the dog stand. Quick work, great steadiness, and lots of repetition. So we get to the test, she runs a flawless test, I get to the line, next dog steps up and im sitting there. Handler sends the dog, all is well... until the dog starts fumbling on its face and not doing so good in the test. My girl starts to get fired up, like she knows where the bird is and how to run the test. I can see it in her eyes, she isnt going to watch this dummy be a dummy much longer. Im trying to settle her down with gentle talking, but I can see the battle being lost. Her inner self isnt going to let this dog run in circles for much longer. Im telling her sit and trying to keep her calm.... but after about 5 minutes of her sitting there watching this dog struggle, the competitive nature won the battle and she bolts right out and picks up that bird. Failed test for me and failed test for the handler, due to the length of which it was taking the dog to run the test. I just giggled and put her away and gave her some ear scratches. It was fun.
 
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Congrats on your ribbon – I find it really rewarding to run trials / tests with our hunting dogs, but as tools of conservation I think any level of hunting dog is a great addition to the duck blind.

The white coat is for added visibility, not to recreate a hunting situation. Just like lots of things we pursue, retriever field trials push the limits of what dogs can accomplish. I’d never shoot a deer at 650 yards but lots of people enjoy long range shooting, or shooting trap with a 410 – why not just use a 12 gauge? Because we like the added challenge.

My two hunting dogs have had a strong start to the trial season, two 1sts, a 3rd and 4th in 4 Qualifying trials.

 
Years ago, I was hunting a shallow bay one afternoon and a guy setup on the other side.
We both had good shooting.
Every time his lab did a retrieve, the pup barked all the way to the bird. It was kinda funny. No barking on the way back, hard to bark with a mouth full.
We met back at the shoreline, and he apologized profusely. I laughed it off, I told him all good.
That was the same trip I had to cut a piece of bamboo to substitute for the trigger assembly receiver pin I left on my gun cleaning table.......
 
RM Anderson said:
Pretty sure Berta would be disqualified on water retrieves for style. One weird quirk of GWP's is that they have a tendency to bark while making retrieves in water. My wife calls her the Martina Navratilova of hunting dogs.
RM
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I think it is a DQ. If memory serves, we had a lady in the group who had a pooch who would bark on the line before being released. Didnt matter if it was water or land, the dog was so damn excited, he just barked and barked. She tried everything, even took a bottle of hot sauce and put it in a spray bottle and when the dog barked, she would spray it in the mouth. That was like a last ditch effort and we all laughed as it did nothing to prevent the dog from barking. What was nuts, was if you hunted that dog, it was quiet and calm. Training and game day, barked like a son of a gun. Loved the games more than the hunt it seemed but failed everything from the barking. Funny funny dog.

I cant stand a barking dog, drives me nuts honestly. As a pup, if they bark, I gently grab their snout and shut it and tell them quiet. My little girl now only barks when she is at home in her run and a dog gets close or she sees something. We walk 3-5 miles every night and she will walk down the road or on the irrigation and lots of dogs barking and going nuts at her, and she walks on by and shows them no attention. We get lots of compliments for that, but she just knows at this point, I wont tolerate a dog that barks or engages in barking matches with other dogs. When she would get going as a puppy, on our walks, I would stick a bumper in her mouth and make her walk with it until we got past the dogs barking at her. Like you said.... hard to bark when im popping a bumper in her mouth over and over and telling her to hold lol.
 
William Reinicke said:
Ya I agree with you both. One of the DQ's in a water test is the dog getting out and running the bank to the bird. They want all swim. On my first dog, they set up a nasty test where the dog swam through water, got up on a point, then back in the water to the next bank to pick up the bird. Then back in the water, over the point and back in the water back to handler. Lots of dogs did fine out to the bird, but ran the bank line back to the handler or back to the point and back into the water, then to handler. My girl got it, as we worked a lot on not running the bank, for water retrieves. She was 1 of 5 dogs that passed that test that morning. LOTS of fails.

Then came the river hunt 2 weeks later. We had a nice slack water that we could set decoys, but out about 60 yards and the current was FLOWING. Then down river, it narrowed and that current just kept going for a ways. Didnt think much of it as we had 2 really good dogs that morning and the birds piled up thick on that shallow sand shelf we put the decoys. I downed a pintail, it got in some rough current and the pooch went down stream, got the bird, but then turned and got on a treadmill and no matter how hard I tried to give her hand signals to the bank line, she wouldnt touch land. My buddy kept saying, shes gonna get tired and eventually go to land, and I fed into that for about 10 minutes, but realized, she might be too stubborn to go against her training. I had to beat through russian olives, tore my waders, and came out with gashes all over my face. I had to get parallel to her, on the bank, and call her over to me, in order for her to get out of the current of the river. I knew then, not every test and DQ is real life hunting. A ribbon didnt mean that much to me anymore. From then on, I never trained out running the bank line to a water retrieve. The speedier the better for my situations anyways.
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no doubt your dog would have been better off returning to shore in that situation, it was not the fact that your dog was well trained that got her into trouble it was the cast refusals.
 
Mark J. said:
Congrats on your ribbon – I find it really rewarding to run trials / tests with our hunting dogs, but as tools of conservation I think any level of hunting dog is a great addition to the duck blind.

The white coat is for added visibility, not to recreate a hunting situation. Just like lots of things we pursue, retriever field trials push the limits of what dogs can accomplish. I’d never shoot a deer at 650 yards but lots of people enjoy long range shooting, or shooting trap with a 410 – why not just use a 12 gauge? Because we like the added challenge.

My two hunting dogs have had a strong start to the trial season, two 1sts, a 3rd and 4th in 4 Qualifying trials.

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thank you! that's a pretty impressive start to your season! we did run a derby earlier this year and got a first, she aged out of that a week later. that's the extent of the field trialing we have done. I doubt we will dive further into that. Where I live it's extremely difficult to find anyone to train with. If I want to train with a club it's a 3 hour drive!
 
Josh Jenson said:
no doubt your dog would have been better off returning to shore in that situation, it was not the fact that your dog was well trained that got her into trouble it was the cast refusals.
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You are completely correct, but its just where she was in her training at the time. But lets say she does take my casts to get on the bank.... does it make sense to have to step out in the river (where she could see me giving those casts) and give her those casts every time she gets turned around in the current and on a treadmill? At that point, might as well walk out and pick the bird up myself.

What happens when you are hunting BIG BIG river systems and there is no way to get far enough out in the river, where they might be able to see me to take a cast? These are real world scenarios that I have found myself in. Ive hunted some BIG bends in rivers and no chance you could get out far enough to give a hand signal to get them back to a bank. Might as well round the boat up and go get the dog at that point.
 
William Reinicke said:
I cant stand a barking dog, drives me nuts honestly.
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One of the neighbors had a dog that would bark all the time. A little yap dog. I lived next to her for 10 years and she would bark at me all day long if she was allowed. I could never sit out on the front porch and enjoy watching my dogs in the front yard. Or the back yard even.

Another of the neighbors have a pack of shepherds that would get out and come to my property and try to fight my dogs through the fence and bark a lot of the night.

Needless to say, I hate a dog that barks constantly. Funny story.....I had had Belle about three weeks and it was dark and about the time that the neighbors shepherds would get out and barking started. I started cussing up a storm because I was sure they had gotten ANOTHER dog (they had about 10 dogs at the time) because I did not recognize the bark. So, I head outside to get them gone and while the neighbors dogs were there running up and down my fence, it was BELLE doing the barking. That was the first time I had ever heard her bark. She doesn't often bark even now.
 
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