72 North American Species
- Thread starter Kris Schaumburg
- Start date
Steve Sutton
Well-known member
this February.....the "decision" has already been postponed a couple of times and I'm guessing that they won't dealy the announcement of "list" or "don't list" again.......
Same thing with the Lesser Prairie Chicken.......
Be a sad thing indeed if it happens........I saw both Sage Grouse and Sharptails removed from the lst here in Washington.....at least then there were other places where they could be hunted.......
Steve
Same thing with the Lesser Prairie Chicken.......
Be a sad thing indeed if it happens........I saw both Sage Grouse and Sharptails removed from the lst here in Washington.....at least then there were other places where they could be hunted.......
Steve
Steve Sutton
Well-known member
SUB_SPECIES....JEEEEZZZZ doesn't anyone read what is plainly stated? Or is it simply that they don[t understand the difference being a "species" and a "sub-species"?
Steve
Steve
Eric Dellamater
Well-known member
There were a few Harli's that were indeed taken in WI this year, 1 guy I know personally and the dnr was even notified since the guy could not id the bird, they gave him the id, and the bird to mount. No issues, tickets etc. Told him it was an incidental duck in this flyway and it counts towards his take of 6, but was only allowed 1 like on the west coast.
Another deal was the King Eider that was taken on the bay. At the launch they were collecting samples from all the ducks butts for some college PhD deal and the dnr was there checking as well, confirmed the id for the guy, allowed him to keep the duck. (I saw this one in person)
Other incidentals besides those mentioned would be tuffed since they do often winter in Canada and Northern US. Pochards would be the other one that comes to mind.
Another deal was the King Eider that was taken on the bay. At the launch they were collecting samples from all the ducks butts for some college PhD deal and the dnr was there checking as well, confirmed the id for the guy, allowed him to keep the duck. (I saw this one in person)
Other incidentals besides those mentioned would be tuffed since they do often winter in Canada and Northern US. Pochards would be the other one that comes to mind.
D.J. Hagen
Active member
Steve, 'round here energy development is the driving force in attempting to keep SG from being listed. It's a mess in Wyoming. The governor created a task force to identify core habitat areas. Remarkably, with helpful input from the oil and gas industry, the majority of the oil and gas development areas fall just outside of the core SG areas. Also remarkably, many of the higher value wind energy development areas, again with helpful input from the oil and gas industry, fall within the core SG areas. Through it all they tell us the boundaries are based on science.
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Steve Sutton
Well-known member
areas are in CORE Sage Grouse areas.....LEK location determines "core" and LEK locations are on ridges....right wherre the towers would be located......
The gas people have the same problem but its more related to road and transmission line locations....RAHHHH ROHHHH on the ridges where the LEK's are.......
I've got the latest "Sage Grouse" plan from Wyoming, (let me know if you don't have it and want to see it and I'll e-mail it to you).....pretty close to the one that the BLM shot down previously....looks like the State will finally bring some concern for the Sage Grouse to the equation instead of just favoring "special interests" as the BLM has been doing......the Sage Grouse guys don't think it will stop lisitng but it does make things "better" for the Grouse....
Steve
The gas people have the same problem but its more related to road and transmission line locations....RAHHHH ROHHHH on the ridges where the LEK's are.......
I've got the latest "Sage Grouse" plan from Wyoming, (let me know if you don't have it and want to see it and I'll e-mail it to you).....pretty close to the one that the BLM shot down previously....looks like the State will finally bring some concern for the Sage Grouse to the equation instead of just favoring "special interests" as the BLM has been doing......the Sage Grouse guys don't think it will stop lisitng but it does make things "better" for the Grouse....
Steve
Matt_n_Barb
Well-known member
Working as an environmental consultant you get hired at times by energy interest, then comes the tight rope. Be honest with your data collection and results, yet get hired again when they don't like what they hear....
Matt
Matt
Steve Sutton
Well-known member
the "one only like the West Coast comment"....of the four States where there is a "possibility" of taking a Harlequin the limits are....
ALASKA - FOUR --there is a season restriction for Non-Residents
Washington - ONE PER SEASON and a permit is required
Oregon - SIX PER DAY
California - SIX PER DAY although I could be wrong on this one as I haven't checked the regs this year
Based on those your LEO was wrong on all accounts which isn't ununusal in situations like this......
Steve
ALASKA - FOUR --there is a season restriction for Non-Residents
Washington - ONE PER SEASON and a permit is required
Oregon - SIX PER DAY
California - SIX PER DAY although I could be wrong on this one as I haven't checked the regs this year
Based on those your LEO was wrong on all accounts which isn't ununusal in situations like this......
Steve
Steve Sutton
Well-known member
you're point?
Steve
Steve
Jay Anglin
Well-known member
Side notes:
There are Harlies taken occasionally on Lake Michigan. More often than not juvies and hens I suspect are written off as buffies. I know of one perfect drake taken in recent years that was mounted. Every year there are eider seen and occasionally taken on Lake Michigan. Most are common but occasionally you will hear of a King Eider being spotted. Birders always freak out when that happens. I know a guy here in a LaPorte that was hunting Pine Lake a few minutes from my house...basically in town....that had 3 drake Common Eider come into the decoys a few years ago during a big blow on Lake Michigan. They didn't know what they were so they didn't shoot(SHOCKING!).
Scoters are taken fairly regularly...especially White-winged. There are some big resevoirs in Indiana that regularly host decent sized flocks of White-winged Scoter. Turtle Creek near Sullivan comes to mind. I haven't heard of Surf Scoter take but I've taken White-winged and one Black Scoter in Indiana. Long-tails of course are relatively common on the Great Lakes and I've also seen them inland. Brant....occasionally you hear of a small flock coming in on somebody. I've seen a single in the fall which may've been an escapee and a flock of 5 in the spring, both sitings in the late nineties.
I've also observed a Bar-Headed Goose that was VERY WARY for several weeks on the open water in front of my mothers house. Two times there were Black Swan there that were also wary...not approachable at all. What am I implying?...well there were no bands and more than likely they were escapees from a private collection or zoo but one never knows.
Side note end
There are Harlies taken occasionally on Lake Michigan. More often than not juvies and hens I suspect are written off as buffies. I know of one perfect drake taken in recent years that was mounted. Every year there are eider seen and occasionally taken on Lake Michigan. Most are common but occasionally you will hear of a King Eider being spotted. Birders always freak out when that happens. I know a guy here in a LaPorte that was hunting Pine Lake a few minutes from my house...basically in town....that had 3 drake Common Eider come into the decoys a few years ago during a big blow on Lake Michigan. They didn't know what they were so they didn't shoot(SHOCKING!).
Scoters are taken fairly regularly...especially White-winged. There are some big resevoirs in Indiana that regularly host decent sized flocks of White-winged Scoter. Turtle Creek near Sullivan comes to mind. I haven't heard of Surf Scoter take but I've taken White-winged and one Black Scoter in Indiana. Long-tails of course are relatively common on the Great Lakes and I've also seen them inland. Brant....occasionally you hear of a small flock coming in on somebody. I've seen a single in the fall which may've been an escapee and a flock of 5 in the spring, both sitings in the late nineties.
I've also observed a Bar-Headed Goose that was VERY WARY for several weeks on the open water in front of my mothers house. Two times there were Black Swan there that were also wary...not approachable at all. What am I implying?...well there were no bands and more than likely they were escapees from a private collection or zoo but one never knows.
Side note end
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Jay Anglin
Well-known member
This has virtually nothing to do with birds...
My second favorite scar(first fav being the 14 incher on my back that I acquired while being chased by the cops at an Allman Brother's concert which forced me to jump over a few rows of seats and landing on my back on a cement stairway, consequently slicing right through my shirt...and I didn't even spill my beer which was a noteworthy achievement in of itself! But..that's another story)...so back to my second favorite. I was diggin razor clams in Chatham, MA with my bare hands(I'm from Indiana for chriminy sakes and Mom and Dad were at the bar up the street...it was the 70's so you were allowed to do that sort of thing though now you'd end up in prison and lose your kids). I was 10 years old and latched on to the mother of all clams. This bad boy wasn't coming out and eventually sliced the web of my left hand open to the bone. Fortunately, family friends from Boston were there and the Mrs was a surgery nurse at one the big hospitals and she butterflied me up real good. I still have that scar. We drink to our scars!
My second favorite scar(first fav being the 14 incher on my back that I acquired while being chased by the cops at an Allman Brother's concert which forced me to jump over a few rows of seats and landing on my back on a cement stairway, consequently slicing right through my shirt...and I didn't even spill my beer which was a noteworthy achievement in of itself! But..that's another story)...so back to my second favorite. I was diggin razor clams in Chatham, MA with my bare hands(I'm from Indiana for chriminy sakes and Mom and Dad were at the bar up the street...it was the 70's so you were allowed to do that sort of thing though now you'd end up in prison and lose your kids). I was 10 years old and latched on to the mother of all clams. This bad boy wasn't coming out and eventually sliced the web of my left hand open to the bone. Fortunately, family friends from Boston were there and the Mrs was a surgery nurse at one the big hospitals and she butterflied me up real good. I still have that scar. We drink to our scars!
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D.J. Hagen
Active member
Lek locations and nesting habitat should determine core areas. What raises my eyebrows is the exclusion of some areas (from the state plan, not a BLM plan) that should have been defined as core areas but coincidentally are prime targets for gas development. There is a clear ongoing effort on the part of oil and gas to hinder wind development, and not for the benefit of sage grouse. One look at Wyoming's flush state coffers will let you know where they stand. I've been right in the thick of it working with BLM on energy projects since the late 90s. http://www.hcn.org/issues/41.22/wind-resistance
D.J. Hagen
Active member
The listing would be federal but, absolutely, fossil fuels in general.
MLBob Furia
Well-known member
Scott,
Whenever we see that commercial, I tell my wife that if that ever happens, I'm not calling the doctor... but I will call everyone I know!
Whenever we see that commercial, I tell my wife that if that ever happens, I'm not calling the doctor... but I will call everyone I know!
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Pat,
Good question, especially when claims are being made about the inclusion of Harlequins on this list.
I found the list on the USFW web site at this link BIRDS PROTECTED BY THE MIGRATORY BIRD TREATY ACT
As you can see when you scroll down the list, the Harlequin Duck is not a protected duck in the eyes of the law and regulations. Therefore it is perfectly legal to shoot a Harlequin in any State in which it is not specifically prohibited.
This link will give you info on states in which one can encounter the Harlequin based on past sightings.
States/US Territories in which the Harlequin duck is known to occur: Alaska , Arizona , Arkansas , California , Colorado , Connecticut , Delaware , Idaho , Iowa , Kansas , Maine , Maryland , Massachusetts , Minnesota , Missouri , Montana , Nebraska , Nevada , New Hampshire , New Jersey , New Mexico , Oklahoma , Oregon , Rhode Island , South Dakota , Texas , Utah , Washington , Wyoming
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Pat,
Good question, especially when claims are being made about the inclusion of Harlequins on this list.
I found the list on the USFW web site at this link BIRDS PROTECTED BY THE MIGRATORY BIRD TREATY ACT
As you can see when you scroll down the list, the Harlequin Duck is not a protected duck in the eyes of the law and regulations. Therefore it is perfectly legal to shoot a Harlequin in any State in which it is not specifically prohibited.
This link will give you info on states in which one can encounter the Harlequin based on past sightings.
States/US Territories in which the Harlequin duck is known to occur: Alaska , Arizona , Arkansas , California , Colorado , Connecticut , Delaware , Idaho , Iowa , Kansas , Maine , Maryland , Massachusetts , Minnesota , Missouri , Montana , Nebraska , Nevada , New Hampshire , New Jersey , New Mexico , Oklahoma , Oregon , Rhode Island , South Dakota , Texas , Utah , Washington , Wyoming
Thumbing through my reference books these are for consideration:
Red Billed Whistling Duck which occur as far north as the TX coast
Emporer Goose in Alaska
Red Billed Whistling Duck which occur as far north as the TX coast
Emporer Goose in Alaska
TimJ
Well-known member
I could have sworn the eastern harlis were federally listed but just found something that said they are only listed by a couple states. Yep you can more then likely shoot them in Iowa.
Now to the point of what you can and can not shoot being in the regs. Well since they only have a certain amount of pages to fit everything into they only put in the general stuff and common situations. It's not up to them to let you know but for you to find out what the laws are for those rare occurrences. No federally threatened or endangered birds plants or animals can be harmed if they are in your regs or not. Most places where they could show up will put them in the regs but that isn't always the case. With some birds being fairly common in private collections and zoos things can get really confusing. I would guess that properly clipped and/or banded birds do not count as wild birds but I wouldn't push it if I saw a spectacled eider flying by.
Tim