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Dani

Dani

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Steve and I drew permits for this years Sambar hunt at St. Vincent NWR. Sambar is an asian elk that can reach almost 600 lbs on the island....much bigger in their native habitat. Me being me, I am super excited already but majorly intimidated in some ways. I am a bird hunter. With an occasional pig taken when bird hunting.....read VERY occasional. I went deer hunting once and it was comical. At least to me. The hunt is primitive weapons only so muzzleloaders or archery. I do have a muzzleloader and I know how to load it and make it go bang but that is pretty much the extent of my knowledge. Sooooooooooo some help is asked of the brain trust here for helping to make this as successful a hunt as possible. I will be scouting. I can do that ....learn the terrain and all that. I will call and talk to the biologists/land manager of the island and pick their brains. But I know incredibly little about hunting deer. Any good primer books for hunting deer? What sorts of loads should I use for an elk sized critter? The muzzle loader is a CVA bobcat. I have had a couple of inline muzzleloaders recently come in in case work and they are neat neat neat neat guns. Love to have one but I dont know that I will get one since I do have a muzzleloader already. But what sorts of loads should I be looking at? Types of bullets? Thanks a lot in advance for any help that can be given.

Dani
 
How far will your shots be? .50 cal? , what twist? I shoot an old White G series and it likes heavy slow bullets. But they often shoot like a rainbow. If you 50-125 yards I'd go with a 450 grain with 70-90 grain of power.


If a more modern gun you can use pellets and saboted copper slugs ( Barnes TMZ )that will be 90% ad good as a centerfire
 
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Not entirely certain on shot distance...based on videos ive seen and pictures of the place 125 yards would be the very high end. I will certainly know more the first time I go. And I will have to look up the twist.
 
the question is - what do they call a muzzleloader

a modern inline with a sabot load under a good scope can handle that and more

it is doable with the right flintlock and young eyes looking through iron sites- my longest whitetail with a flintlock spitting out a .490 round ball was 80 yards

but its a stretch
 
I suggest getting to the best and most trusted muzzleloading gun shop in your area. State your questions, seek their advice, and work up a load and bullet that will do the job.

Then get thee to the range and practice, practice, practice... Good shot placement on a animal that large with one bullet is a must. Consider a range finder if a 125 yd shot is possible, as bullet drop is considerable.

Also practice reloading and shooting, cleaning the barrel if needed for follow up shots. Organize everything that is needed to make the gun go BANG in your possibles bag, so you can find it and get to it pronto.

All of my muzzleloader deer kills have been with a TC Hawkin 50cal. Flintlock, roundball barrel gun. Flintlock a must use in PA. Now that I live in NY, I use a CVA Optima inline, with scope. I consider about as far from a primitive weapon as a muzzleloader can get. Yet it still has it's limitations that I must learn.

Your already a good hunter, so hopefully after your shot and the smoke clears. The beast will be on the ground, not still looking at you as if. "What the hell was that?!" Been there done that, and a clean miss (after really good checking and tracking) is all part of the hunt and stalk.

Keep your powder dry, and I wish you well on filling your tag and the freezer.
 
wow that's awesome! I have no recommendations or knowledge to share but can't wait to hear the stories and see pics
 
There is lots of chatter on the various forums about loads for that gun. Spend a lot of time at the range and you should be fine. Mind the wind direction and try to be scent free. You will want to be close.
I found this online.
[inline CVABobcat.jpg]

View attachment CVABobcat.JPG
 
You already have a wealth of very good advice, so I will opt to take this thread in another direction: How in the heck did a herd of Sambar end-up getting established on a NWR?
 
I have done very well with a Thompson Center Hawken rifle. Iron sights shooting 50 caliber, both patched round ball and their conical bullet. Shoots as well as a center fire at iron sight ranges.
 
Lucky you two, sounds like a grand adventure. Can't help you with the muzzle loader loadings - no experience. I've looked into this hunt myself but never went beyond to actually apply. Good Luck.

Looking forward to the photo essay on this one.
 
Here you go RL, from Wiki: Sambar deer were introduced onto St. Vincent Island, Florida in 1908.[22] White-tailed deer also live on St. Vincent Island; however they inhabit the highlands while the sambar deer mostly live in the lowlands and marshes. To ensure that the sambar deer population does not disrupt the native whitetails, hunting permits have been issued since 1987 to regulate the population. Each year about 130 permits are offered for the three-day hunt. This maintains a sambar deer population of 70–100 individuals.[23].

Likely the same reasoning that many other non-natives were established in this country - for sport initially anyway.
 
Don't overthink it. All critters basically do the same stuff: eat, sleep, try not to get eaten, and reproduce. Whichever one of these things is their highest priority at the moment or time of year makes them most vulnerable.

We know you are willing to scout, which is the most important thing. Get to know the land and where the critters are most likely to be.

2nd or maybe equally important is practicing with your gun. Lock time on a muzzleloader is much slower so any flinching or failure to follow through will result in a bad shot. I used to shoot muzzleloaders a lot, some in line but mostly a hawken, and I had a bad habit of dropping the elbow on my lead hand too quickly on off hand shots, in other words, not following through.

Once you get sighted in and get proficient at reasonable range start practicing at longer range than you expect to shoot- it'll make the hunting shots easier
 
I would stay away from shooting an animal that large in the shoulder. Shoot for same spot as though it is an arrow. Large soft and slow projectiles hitting heavy bone may not penetrate deep enough into the vitals to get a clean kill. That is why I would opt for the behind the shoulder shot.
 
Carp is certainly a prime example of intentions gone bad. Other species like Oryx, Mouflon sheep, Ibex, etc. that have been introduced into the southwest may be seen in a different light. From just a little reading it seems that the FWS controls the Sambar pretty tightly on St. Vincent and trys to keep the population in the 70-100 animal range.
 
As everyone else said the most important thing is practice. In PA we have to shoot flintlocks and mine is a 54 cal Renagade. After a couple pounds of black powder my most accurate load was 62 grains of powder and a patched round ball!!! Loading a conical bullet can be tricky to get reliable shots and more powder is not always the answer. So PRACTICE and experiment with loads.
Good luck, John
 
I had a CVA Bobcat years ago, it liked the Buffalo Ballets. Cant remember how many grains of powder, but once I dialed it in, it grouped well.

Good luck, cant wait to read the stories!
 
I would stay away from shooting an animal that large in the shoulder. Shoot for same spot as though it is an arrow. Large soft and slow projectiles hitting heavy bone may not penetrate deep enough into the vitals to get a clean kill. That is why I would opt for the behind the shoulder shot.

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normally i would agree - however I was surprised when stalkingin Scotland- the heart shot was THE shot on Red Stags - both stags I took went straight down (30-06)
but when we were stalking a large Sitka the ghille told me to shoot the shoulder joint - he said a heart shot sitka will run a very long ways before he realizes he is dead, a busted shoulder will anchor it.

one other aside- sambar stag antler is the classic stag handle material for knifes or a revolver
Click to expand...
 
Shooting Sticks are always a advantage when using a muzzleloader. Getting them in use in hunting situations, many times not so easy.
 
A centerfire rifle with bonded bullets is not an issue of appropriate caliber for shoulder shots. My favorite shot is a shoulder shot on a whitetail. Full transfer of energy into the tissue and stops them quickly.

Muzzleloading projectiles are often geared towards whitetails with all lead or soft lead core. These rounds with 90-95 grains from a 50 caliber will stop on inside the tissue of the outside shoulder of a whitetail. Something like an elk I wonder if it would pass through the forward shoulder at all unless you step up to a more centerfire type sabot with larger volume of powder.
 
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