Best Year Ever

I think that my point about the deer and turkeys was not well made.

Late season is obviously better for ducks. Just like the rut is better for deer and spring turkey hunting is better than the fall.

But.......

If the deer population were to be reduced by 50% (which it should be) for whatever reason or the Turkey population reduced at what ever pecentage, would you be against legal hunting for deer during the rut or spring turkey hunting. Of course not because that is when we HUNT them. This is not a migratory issue which you guys are trying to make it. It's a hunting issue pure and simple. Deer and turkeys get pressured and they move. Certainly not the distance that ducks do. But if I were to use your analogy...deer and turkey aren't migratory (like ducks) so they will pretty much eventually get shot. Ducks on the other hand, can fly to "safer" zones. They can easily move to less presured areas. Believe me...our refuges have lots of ducks where we can't hunt them.

There are sooo many factors that influence the duck population. Most of them (99.99%) we can't even measure because we have no way of measuring them. We can say that farmer John had two nest on his farm that predators got to. We have NO IDEA how many that were destroyed because we have no way of knowing or measuring this. We can say that a survey was done and we found X amount of destroyed nest but how many more were destroyed???? No clue...

If you feel that late season will lead to the demise of the avian population then respectfully request that New Mexico surrender 20 of their 100 plus days of hunting. Sorry Al, you're a nice guy but an easy target on this one :o)

I "think" that more ducks are killed in those states that have large wintering populations of waterfowl since that is where they want to be rather than just being there for a short layover. Would they then be like deer and turkey who have a certain homing region, just traveling a short distance for somewhat reduced pressure? They're literally, sitting ducks.......of course i have no statistical data to back this up....just a 2 cent opinion
 
"Late season is also dangerous due to colder temps and water temps. Is that a reason to restrict it? Yeah, people die duck hunting. Not sure if there are more deaths later in the year but I am sure that someone has that statistic some where. But, people also die bike riding, four wheeling....hell I am sure someone has died trying to deep fry a frozen turkey but it goes with the territory."

Anyone have the stats on the number of deer hunting deaths (I.e. shot or falling from a stand) vs duck hunting deaths? It's no more or less dangerous to be out after Canadas or Snows, which are both in late.

We can all agree that habitat improvement and predator mangement are both needed. We can only do that with increased funding. Where do the increased funds come from? They come from hunting revenue (licenses, stamps, ammo, etc). If you want to grow this sport with the generation of today, you need to maximize your oportunities to kill ducks. New hunters aren't going to stick around long if they're looking at empty skies, on a blue bird day, in the early season. But if they have more chances to get out when the duck are HERE. Then maybe things will change.

Let me also ask, how many people here use their limited vacation days to hunt the early seasons. My guess is not many. Now who uses those days for later season, when there's more ducks. I'm willing to bet that number jumps up quite a bit. Let's face it, we ALL want the best chances to kill the most ducks we possibly can. We don't spend all the time, energy, and money to just sit around. Yes we all have those days, but if they become more frequent, I'll go sit in a deer stand.
 
Those Atlantic flyway population numbers are interesting. The common overall trend of duck numbers counted during the spring breeding continues to rise. So if overall species numbers are rising, where are the declining atlantic flyway ducks going?

As Mike stated, other flyways have longer seasons and more liberal limits. Canada and Mexico are way more liberal on bag limits than we are. Again I think it boils down to too many hunters on the atlantic flyway. I don't want to damage duck populations, but when federal data shows larger populations than we've seen since 1955, and other flyways are liberal, than why shouldn't the atlantic hunters benefit too?
 
I "think" that more ducks are killed in those states that have large wintering populations of waterfowl since that is where they want to be rather than just being there for a short layover.
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I would agree this is a pretty acurate statement.

Growing up & hunting in northern Ohio, I remember years back in the late 70's & early 80's when the birds blew right threw & there was little or no lay over.

Florida is a major wintering ground for the Atlantic Flyway & normally experiences a banner waterfowl seasons year after year.

I've seen northern blows where one day the ducks aren't here, then the next day the marshes are slap full.

At the same time, many hunter north of us are complaining of the lack of birds.

We hunt ill the last Sunday in January & normally see a "reverse migration" the last two weeks with birds coming back from the Bahamas, Cuba & South America.

But, during the last few season we have had bitter winters & killer freezes where the marshes were actually freezing up @ nights.

For years, I have had the same group of hunters from PR come the last weekend of the season.

For the last two season, they stayed @ home because the birds stayed in the islands due to the weather.

Due to our later season, I see the "pair bonding" begin where more pairs come in rather than flocks.

Hunting into Febuary would not be good for the ducks.
 
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I've got no dog in this fight--Maine's season and zone structure this year lets me hunt within 5 miles of home from late September through Christmas eve--and on through January if I want to chase seaducks in the frigid season.

That's plenty, and, while I will make a point of hunting Christmas Day on the years when our season goes that late, I'm ready to quit by then. In a normal winter, decent places to hunt are getting scarce up here by then anyway.

But, knowing how concentrated the ducks get along the coast up here in mid to late December, and assuming this pattern is even more pronounced down in the mid-Atlantic as things up here freeze up and push the birds south, I'd have real concerns about the impact of hunting pressure in mid to late winter, especially on black ducks. (Can we have a winter season on just park ducks and hybrids? I support that wholeheartedly!)

As for analogies to deer hunting, hunting those mid-winter concentrations of coastal ducks may be more like hunting deer in a north woods deer yard than hunting during the rut. I think we need to be concerned anytime we put hunting pressure on a large concentration of game at the time of the year when they are most stressed. And even more so in places where heavy development has greatly reduced the amount of high quality habitat, ensuring that the remaining population becomes concentrated into the limited amount of good habitat that's left. (I don't like

Also (and I am NOT promoting this) if increased duck numbers allow us to have more liberal regulations, I'd rather have a 2 duck limit on black ducks than a longer season. But I don't think either of those changes is likely to come soon.
 
We were to the point that ice flows jammed up at spots and you to go to alternate ramps to get were you wanted to go. Some place you just couldn't reach. At that time of yea we are loaded with mallards, pintail and blacks though.

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Sounds like mid-November up here some years--except for the loaded with pintail part.
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Other states get 100+ day seasons. NJ has 60. (edited for my stupidity) AND we can't hunt SUNDAYS!!! We are planning a petition to get an additional 4+ days (there may be as many as 10) of season length and there is "great" concern that we are going to damage the population and over stress the ducks?? Hogwash! I'm sorry, there are LOTS of areas where the ducks can go when pressured. They go here and get shot at, so they go there and everything is OK.

I never mentioned about hunting into February. I believe my original post stated that we were looking for a few more days to be added onto the end of the season for when the ducks are here. Not sure what the problem would be since many of us plan and use strategies for when the ducks will come in to feed a certain area and when will they go off to their roosting spots so WE CAN KILL MORE DUCKS. Nothing like being pressured when I want to go get a bite to eat or go to a field to loaf around for the day. Or better yet, let's wait for the back water to freeze up and that will bring the ducks out to the bigger water, then we will really wack em. Face it, these are hunting strategies that we all use. These certainly can be much more stressful than NJ getting 4 extra days because they happen each and everyday in the duck world.
 
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Mike:

It's the whole Atlantic flyway that has the 60 day season, and I believe that's mandated by the feds. I don't think you're going to be successful getting any extra days.

Shoot, up here in Maine with our lower hunter densities we think we ought to get the liberal bag limits the Canadians do.

(Just kidding.)

I'm probably in the minority, but I like not being able to hunt Sundays--it stretches the season out longer.

Within the 60 day framework, I doubt it really matters much for conservation when the season occurs.
 
How can hunters in the mid-Atlantic have such a profound impact on duck numbers when the majority of birds are just passing through? And sea ducks are a whole separate discussion. Sea ducks have different seasons and bag limits, which are very liberal. Sea ducks taste like ass, so I don't waste my time lol.
 
Jeff,

I wasn't aware of the whole flyway being stuck at 60 but I was sure that I would be corrected. I am aware though that Sunday hunting does cut down on season length and does take away from 60 huntable days.

I am not one man out to change the Atlantic flyway, but with the help of a select few and Delta we can make some changes. With the shift of seasons and changes in migratory patterns, some change may be inevitable.

I think we can stick a fork in this one.....
 
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Mike,
what I said was clear. I love a good late season hunt. More than many. And I hunt them hard when I can. But I dont get nearly as many as I would like. In the old days before I was married and had kids I hunted every day it was open if we were out of school. It was very good hunting and worth the suffering in the cold to take advantage of it.
But the ducks are feeling it too at that point, and if it freezes up it is much easier to kill a limit in a short time if you find open water. Which takes away the BS talk of real hunters. Cold capable yes, but "real" no. Show me a guy who can scout, get permission, keep ahead of every other tom, dick or harry and kill a limit this week with temps in the 50's and he is the real deal.

Dont take that the wrong way. My favorite thought about duck hunting is a Chet Rennison print with driven snow and the broad bill dropping in, but once you fight to the spot the birds want in and right now! Try that tomorrow with a youth hunt and every puddle and wooded tree hole in the state wide open.

My point is that for the Eastern Flyway and the birds that live in it and fly back and forth in it. the late days in January are the Best, and we are given them to enjoy. To ask for a few more (Like 2 ) instead of teal hunting in October is fine, and I have done it every year at our state meeting when it comes up. But whining that the Federal manager is keeping us from ducks by not opening up February is not going to wash with me. Sure you see a bunch then. If it is frozen up all over the North you see even more. But those birds are highly stressed and headed to Canada in about 3 to 5 weeks. Adding a further feeding restriction on them by shooting them out of good forage areas only lessens the numbers headed to the breeding grounds to make next years birds.

Does it bother me one bit to see a migratory flock sit on my fav. spot after the close. No. Do I care one bit that they didnt show during the open because the Ice wasnt set inland. No.
Stuff happens. Go enough, you will have some great years. Travel to some flyways where the pressure is way lower, the habitat way better and the total number of birds is way higher and you can see a few really great days.
But to moan to a manager that we need to hunt late to kill more because we want heavy straps to make it worth doing is just not my thing.

And there are plenty of early days I should have been in a tree looking over a legal bait pile to kill a 90 pound doe on a 1 acre house lot in a residential cul de sac because it feeds a family doing it. But it aint hunting to me. Its shopping at the Big Y and I can do that on a Sunday all year. So if ducks are open, that is what I am doing on the Saturday I have off.

Still respectfully,

Bob
 
Bob,

I won't continue to keep kissing your butt, haha. I do appreciate and respect your points, all of which are valid. I am acutally glad that this thread kept going a bit with adult conversation without adult language that sometimes accompanies it but I don't know where the hunting in February keeps coming up. A few extra days...Coastal ends January 24th so that won't put us into February. North ends December 31st whiich is at least a week early and the south ends January 7th, still a week early.
 
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Jeff,

I wasn't aware of the whole flyway being stuck at 60 but I was sure that I would be corrected.


Are you calling me argumentative? I am SHOCKED!!!

I am aware though that Sunday hunting does cut down on season length and does take away from 60 huntable days.

Don't know about other jurisdictions, but here we have 60 huntable days in both zones. Longer with resident geese and sea ducks.


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Mike
my long winded reply was created after a football game at the high school and well after you had carried on the conversation with Jeff while I was watching the band play tonight. Best Star Spangled Banner I have heard this year.
Did not intend to pile on, or repeat Jeffs points. Just happened that way before I hit "Post reply"

Lets continue this on a duck marsh in the late season. I have a new Sanford Box that will work just fine.

Then we can brag on our dogs or our shooting.
Bob
 
[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Don't know about other jurisdictions, but here we have 60 huntable days in both zones. Longer with resident geese and sea ducks.


We started getting compensation for Sundays here in Jersey several years back, so in other words, we now get 60 open hunting hunting days where Sundays are not counted in the season length. So from a calendar standpoint, the season actually goes longer, although the amount of days you can actually hunt(Monday through Saturday) is 60 days. So we don't get shortchanged and are actually better off than we used to be when Sundays were counted in the season length even though you could not hunt on them.

We are primarily a stop on the migration for many species of fowl here, but are a wintering ground for many species also. And in mild winters we winter a lot more puddle ducks than we do in colder years.

I remember 30 days and 3 ducks, and that was before the Sunday compensation deal, so the season was actually shorter. Interestingly, I did not see less ducks in those years, and the Atlantic flyway population was not down that much then compared to the other flyways at that time, but we got stuck with the restrictive regulations like the rest of the country. So I am pretty happy with the 60 days we have gotten the last several years. We miss more ducks here because they pass through earlier, not later, than when the seasons are open.
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Jeff,

I wasn't aware of the whole flyway being stuck at 60 but I was sure that I would be corrected. I am aware though that Sunday hunting does cut down on season length and does take away from 60 huntable days.

I am not one man out to change the Atlantic flyway, but with the help of a select few and Delta we can make some changes. With the shift of seasons and changes in migratory patterns, some change may be inevitable.

I think we can stick a fork in this one.....
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Knowledge is power - get reading.
 
Tod...

"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."
- Groucho Marx

Like I said, I knew that I would be corrected so I should have verified something before I wrote. A stroke of the pen is mightier than the sword???

With 10 plus years of college and finishing up my 5th college degree, I am no stranger to reading but we all get a little lazy sometimes...
 
O' Chad, I am going to see you soon and turn that frown up side down! Bunk up little camper...we'll get through this...together.
 
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