"bigger boat"

The ducks don't care,but that duck meat can get pretty expensive out of those rigs. My polarcraft has torn my waders a few times. If I slid of the side of one of those rigs I would probally go under. Wood is wood, glass is glass, and aluminuim is aluminuim, each hunter will choose what he likes best. Each material has its pros and cons. The ducks dont care. John
 
I agree nothing in those pics made me want to jump up and schedule a hunt, but then again the fact they guide in ND doesn't make me think very highly of the operation either.[/reply


Why would the fact that they guide in North Dakota make you think any less of them??????? I just cant figure out this comment, I have never hunted with them but I do know that guiding is not an easy way to make a living and most guys will work their butt off for their clients. Enlighten me..........
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I agree nothing in those pics made me want to jump up and schedule a hunt, but then again the fact they guide in ND doesn't make me think very highly of the operation either.[/reply


Why would the fact that they guide in North Dakota make you think any less of them??????? I just cant figure out this comment, I have never hunted with them but I do know that guiding is not an easy way to make a living and most guys will work their butt off for their clients. Enlighten me..........
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I think he was getting to the point of hiring a guide in ND to shoot waterfowl is like hiring a person to ride around with you for the purpose of pumping gas. 99 out of 100 people could pump their own gas and find huntable numbers of waterfowl in ND. But that point has nothing to do with this thread.
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"[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Why would the fact that they guide in North Dakota make you think any less of them???????"

Go to the ND forum at the Refuge website and ask for a recommendation for a guide for next year, you'll get your answer. The poster you quoted was not dissing this guide specifically, but guiding in ND in general.
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Matt, I agree with what you are saying but, some of us may only have a day or two to experience a new place to hunt. I have hunted Manitoba for a couple of days and yes anybody could successfully freelance if you had the time. Those of us that have a day or two to get away must use a guide service to experience some of these places. YES if I had a couple of weeks I could haul all my gear to North Dakota and be VERY successful I am sure. So their is a demand for guides in these areas. Why say that you dont think very highly of his operation for providing this service.
 
Charlie that is a point but I find it hard to believe you would travel to ND from NY and only hunt 1 or 2 days and leave. Even still there is more public land in the state than there is land in in some New England states! If you are planning on a trip to my great state let me know. I'll point you in a direction and you will find birds. Here is an interactive map with various overlays of public lands and "PLOTS" land (Private Land Open To Sportsmen) http://web.apps.state.nd.us/imf/imf.jsp?site=NDGFPLOTSGuide
 
Matt,

I understand this is a tough concept for a native ND so I'll attempt to explain. I'm in CT and about a month ago I did have the pleasure of visiting ND on business. It was fun seeing all the deer and pheasant along the highways. We counted 54 pheasant along the access road for G.R.E. Coal Creek plant on the way out. Of course the -12 F temperature was a bit unpleasant and made getting home to our 20F temps feel absolutely balmy.

Anyway back on subject, Some guys work jobs that only get limited vacation time. For these guys hiring a guide service make a lot of sense. It allows them to jump on a plane arrive, hook up with the service who has done all the scouting and will supply all the bulky items like decoys. You hunt the 2 or 3 days you've got, Throw the game breasts in a cooler and fly home. Two vacation days and a weekend cover it. Basically a no hassles, relaxing, hit and run hunt.

The alternative is putting a hunt together with a couple of good friends, spending 2 to 3 days driving each way with a fully loaded truck (trailer for goose decoys & dogs), motel rooms (at 50 plus there is no way I'm driving through, then hunting hard and driving through back home.) Hope we can find good spots on land the size of my home state. If we hunt more than 3 days we're bumping hard against our possession limits although with a grinder along we could be making sausage in the evenings. Five days of hunting and you're into a second week of vacation.

Now to put it yet another way, say you want to try a coastal eider hunt. What's more attractive, drag a big water boat out to New England, buy eider decoys you may never use again. Get up and launch your boat into dark unfamiliar sea water, tides and rocks and ledges and find good spots to hunt. Or would it be easier and more enjoyable to simply fly out and hook up with a guide of Bill Wasson's talents and experience first hand a totally different world of hunting from that experienced in NorDak. Here in New England we have a lot of coastal shore and good numbers of Oldsquaw, Scoter and Eeider to the north. They're not hard to find, in fact, like you, I could easily say only a fool needs a guide but then I've seen both sides and understand that free lancing takes time and equipment. Guides are a nice short cut for those without them.

Scott
 
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The problem is that the guides and outfitters lease up HUGE amounts of property, locking out the locals and the freelancers, and quite often on the best properties. The PLOTS lands and most state lands are off limits to NR's during the first week or two of pheasant season for ALL hunting, not just pheasants. The locals are typically ok with the freelancing NR's but hate with a passion the NR's coming in and using the guides.
 
The problem is that the guides and outfitters lease up HUGE amounts of property, locking out the locals and the freelancers, and quite often on the best properties. The PLOTS lands and most state lands are off limits to NR's during the first week or two of pheasant season for ALL hunting, not just pheasants. The locals are typically ok with the freelancing NR's but hate with a passion the NR's coming in and using the guides.
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Ding ding ding we have a winner!!!

Now to put it yet another way, say you want to try a coastal eider hunt. What's more attractive, drag a big water boat out to New England, buy eider decoys you may never use again. Get up and launch your boat into dark unfamiliar sea water, tides and rocks and ledges and find good spots to hunt. Or would it be easier and more enjoyable to simply fly out and hook up with a guide of Bill Wasson's talents and experience first hand a totally different world of hunting from that experienced in NorDak. Here in New England we have a lot of coastal shore and good numbers of Oldsquaw, Scoter and Eeider to the north. They're not hard to find, in fact, like you, I could easily say only a fool needs a guide but then I've seen both sides and understand that free lancing takes time and equipment. Guides are a nice short cut for those without them.
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No I would not hire a guide to shoot sea ducks. In fact what I did was develope a relationship with a fellow hunter and exchange a hunt or trip. This past fall Chris Lillehoff and I traveled out to MD and hunted with David Sikorski for a couple days. In return he is planning on a trip to ND/MN this summer to do some fishing. We had more fun on that trip doing stuff you would never get on a "guided trip" We got to meet George Williams, visited Havre de Grace, chased Blackducks in a needle grass marsh, carved decoys and on the list could go. If you can find a guide that will do all that I may consider it.
 
I was quite surprised to see some of the remarks about Scott's guide service. One response asked for a few pics of the boats, so Scott posted them. The response was "well, it didn't make me jump up and want to schedule a hunt with them" It was a few picks of the boats!!! With Scott's experience and all his locations, if he really wanted to pump himself up and show what his business can do, I am sure he could post a more the adequate supply of pics with tons of birds in them. But, then again one poster said that he finds that distasteful. So WTF!!

As previously mentioned, I have never personally met Scott, but I have talked to him a few times. He was willing to offer our chapter some greats hunts at incredible prices. All for the name of DU and our chapter.

Finally, I don't fully understand what the beef is about with the ND hunts. We all want to bag some birds on trips and we usually don't have much time. Anyone that can show us a good time for a reasonable fee is providing a great service. We have lots of Brant in New Jersey. I hear from lots of people how stupid that these birds are yet some make a living guiding for them. I had some great hunts with Gene Jr. for Brant and they are a hoot to hunt, but I wouldn't talk down to someone who enjoys it as well and wants to take others hunting them. I wouldn't think them as cashing in on some easy money.
 
Matt,

I understand this is a tough concept for a native ND so I'll attempt to explain. I'm in CT and about a month ago I did have the pleasure of visiting ND on business. It was fun seeing all the deer and pheasant along the highways. We counted 54 pheasant along the access road for G.R.E. Coal Creek plant on the way out. Of course the -12 F temperature was a bit unpleasant and made getting home to our 20F temps feel absolutely balmy.

Anyway back on subject, Some guys work jobs that only get limited vacation time. For these guys hiring a guide service make a lot of sense. It allows them to jump on a plane arrive, hook up with the service who has done all the scouting and will supply all the bulky items like decoys. You hunt the 2 or 3 days you've got, Throw the game breasts in a cooler and fly home. Two vacation days and a weekend cover it. Basically a no hassles, relaxing, hit and run hunt.

The alternative is putting a hunt together with a couple of good friends, spending 2 to 3 days driving each way with a fully loaded truck (trailer for goose decoys & dogs), motel rooms (at 50 plus there is no way I'm driving through, then hunting hard and driving through back home.) Hope we can find good spots on land the size of my home state. If we hunt more than 3 days we're bumping hard against our possession limits although with a grinder along we could be making sausage in the evenings. Five days of hunting and you're into a second week of vacation.

Now to put it yet another way, say you want to try a coastal eider hunt. What's more attractive, drag a big water boat out to New England, buy eider decoys you may never use again. Get up and launch your boat into dark unfamiliar sea water, tides and rocks and ledges and find good spots to hunt. Or would it be easier and more enjoyable to simply fly out and hook up with a guide of Bill Wasson's talents and experience first hand a totally different world of hunting from that experienced in NorDak. Here in New England we have a lot of coastal shore and good numbers of Oldsquaw, Scoter and Eeider to the north. They're not hard to find, in fact, like you, I could easily say only a fool needs a guide but then I've seen both sides and understand that free lancing takes time and equipment. Guides are a nice short cut for those without them.

Scott
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My take Scott is, that ND is one of the few places left that a hunter can still freelance, move around to where the birds are and hunt them on their own terms. It is for sure the furthest Eastern state that you can hunt that way.

I agree 100% with the feeling that guides in ND is a bad thing - surely for selfish reasons, because I see value and beauty of freelancing. Freelancing isn't for everyone, and as you have said, it isn't for you. But for me it is a wonderful way to go. I'll use Suttonesque flourish in saying that for me.... THERE ARE NO PURER AND MORE WONDERFUL BIRDS TAKEN THAN THOSE TAKEN ON YOUR OWN, ON YOUR OWN TERMS IN A STRANGE LAND.

Out of respect for what is there now, I am in solidarity with those who dislike guiding in such areas. Is the downward slide inevitible? Probably, but ND has a lot going for it such that it remains open to freelancing.
 
Again.........I understand the concept of freelancing and protecting the right to do so. That said, I would love to be able to take several weeks off of work and hunt North Dakota, simply dont have the time. I have not taken more than a week off since my honeymoon, 26 years ago. I work for myself, no work, no pay. Three kids through private schools and now two in college make playtime that much more difficult to find. You could freelance in NY, I do it every weekend of the season here and believe me we have plenty of open spaces, Adirondak and Catskill Mtn parks for example millions of free access acres. If I am going to experience North Dakota its going to be like this........Early flight friday morning,arrive mid day ,meet guide,afternoon hunt,Sat,hunt all day,Sun morning hunt,evening flight back to NY. Total time off from work 1 day!! Can you tell me how I would do this without the services of a guide. I took a trip to Manitoba,exactly as described above. We had a great time and got to experience a new and wonderful place. Thanks to the expert services of our guide. I just dont understand why you would TRASH a guy for providing a service that is obviously in demand,as long as he is reputable of course. We could also get into the guys that spend 1-2 weeks freelancing for waterfowl in these areas as well. How many ducks can you eat in 2 weeks. Whats the possession limit 16 birds I think. How hard is that to do!!! What do these guy do with limits day in and day out? I appreciate the offers to "point me in the right direction" Thats what is so wonderful about this site and MOST of the hunting fraternity that I have had the pleasure to meet, and for reasons unknown to me, waterfowlers seem to be the BEST of the bunch!!!!! My Point.........Some of us simply....Dont Have The Time
 
The thoughts on guided Vs freelance are all valid but one "[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]as you have said, it isn't for you". That one surprises me Tod as with the slight exception of the two DHBP Eider hunts I participated in I have never used a guide service for hunting or fishing. My personal belief is that I would rather use the money and take the time to figure it out on my own. I have travels and hunted or fished with locals who are friends. I really enjoyed getting to hunt with Eric and Jeff Smith. As Matt pointed out, exchange hunts are great if you have the connections.

My thoughts posted above where simply to explain the value and service guides can provide to those with more money than time and resources. I agree, I too hate to see land tied up by guide services but maybe a better way to address this is through added taxes on land closed to open recreation, or offer state money/tax write-offs to properties that are open to the general public. I believe there was a discussion a year back or so that Montana had a program. I know Michigan was offering payments to farmers that opened their land up to the general public. If not exactly competitive with what the guides pay it would certainly go a long way keeping good land open for the general population.

I would love to see CT implement a property tax on open woodlands and agricultural land (taxed at a reduced rate by the towns) if they are not made available to open recreation. The state already protects land owners of open property from liability issues. Give the land owner the first 25 acres around the house/ farm buildings, subtract out any other areas that need to be safety zones and tax the rest. Not enough to hurt much but enough to counteract the benefits of leasing to guide services. Ideally if the money could be kept out of the general fund it would be great to use it as a land acquisition fund.

And finally to wrap this up on my part, the number of hunters are dropping. As much as each of us enjoys the reduced pressure of fewer hunters, the fact is, this whole sport relies on the political and financial power of numbers. Guide services help keep our numbers up by keeping the sport open to those with limited time and yes limited abilities and dedication. They buy licenses and vote with us on hunting issues. Their kids may even get hooked and join us in our deep love of the chase.

Scott
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The thoughts on guided Vs freelance are all valid but one "[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]as you have said, it isn't for you". That one surprises me Tod as with the slight exception of the two DHBP Eider hunts I participated in I have never used a guide service for hunting or fishing. My personal belief is that I would rather use the money and take the time to figure it out on my own. I have travels and hunted or fished with locals who are friends. I really enjoyed getting to hunt with Eric and Jeff Smith. As Matt pointed out, exchange hunts are great if you have the connections.

My thoughts posted above where simply to explain the value and service guides can provide to those with more money than time and resources. I agree, I too hate to see land tied up by guide services but maybe a better way to address this is through added taxes on land closed to open recreation, or offer state money/tax write-offs to properties that are open to the general public. I believe there was a discussion a year back or so that Montana had a program. I know Michigan was offering payments to farmers that opened their land up to the general public. If not exactly competitive with what the guides pay it would certainly go a long way keeping good land open for the general population.

I would love to see CT implement a property tax on open woodlands and agricultural land (taxed at a reduced rate by the towns) if they are not made available to open recreation. The state already protects land owners of open property from liability issues. Give the land owner the first 25 acres around the house/ farm buildings, subtract out any other areas that need to be safety zones and tax the rest. Not enough to hurt much but enough to counteract the benefits of leasing to guide services. Ideally if the money could be kept out of the general fund it would be great to use it as a land acquisition fund.

And finally to wrap this up on my part, the number of hunters are dropping. As much as each of us enjoys the reduced pressure of fewer hunters, the fact is, this whole sport relies on the political and financial power of numbers. Guide services help keep our numbers up by keeping the sport open to those with limited time and yes limited abilities and dedication. They buy licenses and vote with us on hunting issues. Their kids may even get hooked and join us in our deep love of the chase.

Scott
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Scott, you said that you would never drive to ND to freelance, so I was quessing that it wasn't for you. That was what I was referring to. You exclusively freelance here in CT (and do very well at that).

I understand, and I think all those opposed to guiding in ND, do too. The exact point you explained is what they are afraid of (I know you understand this). A bunch of rich CSers lock up the land, story has been told a million times, not so much in ND yet. Maybe it is a hollow wish, but my wish is that the tide is stemmed for a as long as possible.

To be clear, my position is that I don't think a whole lot of someone who would fly to ND and use a guide with everything that is available. Maybe I'm overly romantic, but so be it.

T
 
Tod, Not all of us have the advantage of time available for hunts such as yours this past season.I did enjoy following your posts and pictures and respect your opinions but To say that "you dont think a whole lot" of me because I would like to experience some of those areas with very limited time by useing a guide is rediculous. Are you questioning my abilities as a hunter , as someone who has tought my children to respect the game and the persuit of it. Who has given back by introducing people, who without my help would have never had the opportunities to hunt Deer, turkey and waterfowl. "Overly romantic" I think not!!
 
Mike Repp,

Thank you for the request to post some pictures of the welds. I see that Mike Braden's post has gotten off course. I would bet that Mike did not expect to see some of the replies. I did not expect to see some of them as well. I am thankful to Steve Sutton stepping in and posting the facts and researching the truth. I am also thankful for the administration to let me defend and tell my side. There are always two sides to every story. I was one of the original posters of this site in the old format and once on the list of commercial boat builders. I lost site of what this forum has to offer and the knowledge of some great individuals.


Here are some photos of our welds. We use two different welding methods to put our boats together. We pulse weld and tig weld. The tig weld is the best looking weld but much slower. We would be willing to tig a boat together for an additional upcharge. The pulse weld is the fastest of welding. The pulse weld is a strong weld and the most innovative method of welding. I am sure after seeing a few of the comments that we must have some welders on here. Perhaps, they could add something about the difference in pulse Vs. tig welding.

Here is a photo of a pulse weld


Here is a photo of the tig welding



Here is a photo showing pulse and tig welds


I hope that this clears the minds of the guy's that are looking at our rigs. We give a full 15 year warranty on our welds. We just like any manufacturer that has busines will have a problem from time to time. There is not one perfect boat manufacturer out there. We are judged on how quick we respond to resolve any problems. I can count on one hand the out of hundreds of boats that we had an issue with. The customers that have voiced their opinions on this thread have been a great bunch of guys and I appreciate their brand loyalty. We have many guides running our boats all across the country , and we are getting ready to ship our sixth boat to Ireland. We have been fortunate to have the friends and business that we have today. I may not be able to please everybody, but the guy's that ride in our boats are sold. We have a D.W. Jamboree every year where the entire D.W. Family gets together and hunts somewhere different. We will be heading to Maine for the Jamboree this year.

You are welcome to contact me direct with any questions at 330-602-9008. I would be happy to address any questions on this thread as well. I am addressing your request and I hope this is not construed as "shameless promotion"

Best of gunning,

Steve Hoover








 
Steve...Those welds look good to me. What type of boat is that in the last picture? I see you changed the interior area where the shelves would go and the transom area looks different as well. Lets see more pics of that boat.' Looks SWEET!!!
 
I live in ohio there have been some record deer taken in the past several years. This has made it really hard to find placces to hunt without leasing land and now the deer guides have moved in so I totally understand Matt.Your quality of hunt is based on the size of your wallet. John
 
Wasn't this thread about a bigger boat at one time?

What the heck does what owners of land do legally with THEIR own land have to do with a bigger boat. Couldn't figure out why that other post needed to take a shot at Scott and why it has gone farther.

For the record I hate the idea of land being leased by guides... but it is legal and I won't take property rights away from anyone because of it. I'd rather the land be managed for hunting then for ethanol or some of the other energy of the month schemes.
And if you think I don't have reasons to hate leasing go check out the trends for resident SD hunters compared to non-residents. The guides are just doing what is allowed, not a loophole or anything like that. There are legitimate ways to deal with this issue but the guides are not the ones to go after personally.

Tim
 
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