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Jay Anglin

Jay Anglin

Well-known member
Jim Zumbo made some negative comments regarding the use of assualt style rifles for hunting and he's getting reamed. I posted my comments so you'll know how I feel(bottom of the page). It's pretty obvious that at this point a ton of guys from rifle and target shooting forums are commenting so I thought another angle would be appreciated by Mr. Zumbo and figured that there may be more that think like me here. Post up, no matter what your feelings are.

Jay

http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/zumbo/2007/02/assault_rifles_.html
 
The bottom of the page is the middle of the page now....the hits are coming in fast. Reading these blogs it occurs to me that I am a dying breed. The end is definately in site when it comes to shooting sports as far as I'm concerned.
 
Et tu Zumbo?
2nd Amendment:
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury the 2nd Amendment, not to praise it.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones: (80)
So let it be with the 2nd Amendment. The noble Zumbo
Hath told you the 2nd was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault;
And grievously hath the 2nd answer'd it.
Here, under leave of Zumbo and the rest,-- (85)
For Zumbo is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honorable men,--
Come I to speak in the 2nd's funeral.
It was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Zumbo says he was ambitious; (90)
And Zumbo is an honourable man.
He hath brought many captives home to Rome,
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in the 2nd Amendement Caesar seem ambitious?
When that the poor have cried, the 2nd hath wept: (95)
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Zumbo says it was ambitious;
And Zumbo is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Lupercal
I thrice presented him a kingly crown, (100)
Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?
Yet Zumbo says it was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Zumbo spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know. (105)
You all did love the 2nd Amendment once,--not without cause:
What cause withholds you, then, to mourn for it?--
O judgment, thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason!--Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with the 2nd Amendment, (110)
And I must pause till it come back to me.

Now that there is pretty writing.

I have yet to see so many good points about gun ownership. Personal gun ownership is in the 2nd Ammendment, but no where is hunting provided as a right. That would make things real easy for the Brady Bunch to come into the back door of the 2nd. Then again if they outlawed hunting then those states with hunting in their constitutions (Alaska is one state whose constitution ties guns and hunting together, any others?) would be in for a fight like AK is with its pot possession laws being less strict than the federal law. And if hunting was outlawed then the USFWS and the state F&G folks would have to have bake sales to pay for their own salaries. White tailed deer would over take the midwest and eastern states causing car insurance companies to go bankrupt much like a hurricane does now.

I think Jim Zumbo is baked in the public view, but due to the 1st Ammendment his "speech" will be protected by his editors/owners, so don't expect a retraction unless ODL or Remmington get hit in the pocket book.
 
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I have no need or desire for machine guns. Also I do not like the 'Flies it dies' mentality, the bumper sticker even less. I hope that people who think that way will eventually grow out of it.

I must admit I did not shoot my limit once this year. There where definately times when I could have. I seem to set up plans to get my limit every outing, but when the time came, I stopped short. A few birds in the bag and the knowledge that I really did fool them this time and could get more was enough for me. I mostly like messing with the boat and decoys anyway.
 
WOW!! I'm speechless. It amazes me that some people, supposed sportsmen at that, can logically think that way.

OL should kick Zumbo to curb.
 
Other than the "terrorist" comment I totally agree with him. Speechless...I doubt it.

The idea that he cannot express an opinion without being attacked, and the guilty by association theme...it's all very pathetic if you ask me.
 
The idea that AR type rifles are somehow 'bad' or 'evil' etc is very ignorant in my opinion. They are firearms, no different than any other firearm. They are a tool, no better, no worse than the PERSON standing behind it. If we as gun owners and sportsmen allow the anti's to go where they want, guess whats next. Those 'bad' and 'evil' scoped 'sniper rifles' and those 'bad' and 'evil' 'street sweeper' AKA your varmint gun, deer rifle, rabbit gun, quail gun, duck gun, etc etc etc. Zumbo, and anyone else is of course allowed their opinions, however shortsighted they may be.




Speechless?? yeah I guess you're right.....LOL!!!
 
As far as the "Assault Rifle" debate goes, I don't own one and don't have any direct interest in them myself. I do happen to own a couple of beautiful, older Belgium made Browning A-5s. There is no folding stocks, extended magazines, or laser sighted gizzmos within a mile of them. They are semi-autos though. They function under exact the same principles as the assault rifles that are getting bashed by Jim Zumbo in his editorial. It isn't a huge step from one gun to the other. Take off the nice walnut, the hand done checkering, the engraving, and gold trigger and they start to look a lot more alike. I understand why the target crowd is pouncing on Zumbo so hard for this. The "Terrorist" comments that he makes are irresponsible and inflammitory. If anything, he needs to issue an apology for that. He has been around this game too long to not know what he was doing and the fallout that was going to be generated.
 
Right on jumbo ,you tell it like it is,but i see many a guntotin folk are upset at you for taking away there rights which you havent yet.the folks dont relize its not a right to hunt its a privledge yes down there you can own what ya want for a fire arm up here no to any assault type weapons at all ,they are banned from owning them so count your chickens guys and gals you still have them but keep them on the range ,hell up here we are only alowed magazines with 5 shots tho you only need one now dont ya?
with being outnumbered and surrounded by bunny huggers one would want to keep the peace so as you dont loose the ability to own such guns and the bunny huggers are waiting every chance they get to make us hunters look bad for the vote to take things away from us the law abidin huntin folk.. my thoughts from up in cold country canada
 
Zumbo made a mistake here.

Terrorists? are you kidding me?

Talk about eating your own. How dare he relate a perfectly legal option for hunters to terrorists.

Just because you wouldn't participate in a certain aspect of our sport don't demonize it. We....gun owners/hunters....are in the fight together.

Anti's are attacking us from all sides all of the time. Attacking each other adds another nail in the coffin, and that is not good.

-D
 
I just read Jay Anglin's comments and I agree 100%. Honestly, I'm appalled that there are that many people out there who think that it's ok to go hunting with an assault weapon. 2 rounds, 200 rounds, it doesn't matter. It makes a statement, and the statement to non-hunters and hunters isn't right.

You want to own an assault rifle and target shoot at a safe facility, God bless you. I'd like to try it, it looks like fun. Carrying it in the woods? As a hunter, I'd be pissed if you did, as it's an absolute anti-hunting magnet. People watch the news, they read the papers, they know what assault weapons are and what they are used for. They don't equate them with hunting, they equate them with killing humans.

The issue has zero to do with united we stand and divided we fall. The issue is, is it healthy for hunting? Of course not, it's an in-your-face approach that will most surely backfire.
 
I agree with ya, Jay. Although Jimbo probably could have reduced the backlash by finding another way of voicing his opinion (i.e. without the comparison to a terrorist implement), I gotta believe the backlash is more a reflection of the times rather than a debate over the Second Amendment. We live in an era of intolerance, one in which the pendulum has swung so far in rebellion away from political correctness that we no longer give a flying fornication about listening to what others have to say or respecting that they possess the huevos to express themselves. If your opinion differs from mine, you're wrong. Yer either wit us er yer agin us. Phooey.

I don't own an AR or similar rifle nor do I really care what others' rifles look like. I love an old side-by-side shotgun but I'd rather shoulder a 5.5-pound titanium rifle with a synthetic stock up and down the mountain. As a hunter, I do care that we limit our shots to responsible distances and attempt to make a quick, clean kill with the first. I'll freely admit that when I see someone toting a firearm with a 10 or 20 shot clip, I have to wonder how concerned they are with the first shot.
 
I carry a 25 round magazine for my 10/22 when I am small game hunting. I used to carry two 10 round magazines but The Ban expired and I bought a 25 round magazine soon after. I had one pre Ban but it was permanently borrowed by a former friend, and during the Ban I could not justify buying a pre Ban one for $60 to $90 on gunbroker.com.

When I go bunny hunting at below zero I no longer have to fumble with the gloves on to change out the 10 round magazines, or freeze my fingers trying to switch them. I can hunt for two days without having to deal with changing the magazines with numb fingers or dropping one of those little 10 round suckers in the knee deep snow.

Now, according to DJ and Andrew they will be filled with horror at the sight of me with a 25 round magazine sticking out of my Ruger 10/22 if I was someplace other than a shooting range. It is a semi automatic, .22 caliber rifle with detachable high capacity magazines so in words it is identical to an AR-15. It is just not black plastic with a downward pointing grip. For $100 at Cabela's I can make my 10/22 into an assualt rifle which would make it easier to use in cold weather hunting conditions.

The funny thing about The Ban was that it named guns that were illegal for import, rather than the types of weapons. You could not import a actual AK-47, but you could import any chinese made look alike. If The Ban was to come back and do any good it could not name names. It will have to name types, which will result in broad catagories of no longer legal arms. Semi-auto rifles of all types will have to go. Semi-auto pistols. Semi anything will have to go. If not, then the same loop holes from The Ban will still be at play and there will be no point to it again. We all hate pointless laws, and The Ban was pointless.

As for the large capacity magazines most states have magazine capacity restrictions for big game hunting. Some states make an exception for small game hunting. So if you see some "dude" out deer hunting with a 20 round magazine they may need a gentle reminder from an LEO.

The biggest issue at play is that the leaders of the gun ban agenda want all guns gone, not just out of the hands of criminals leaving us sports to our hunting and shooting activities. So, what if we give up just a little and let them take semi-autos. Then bad kids will be going old west and hacksawing off the barrels of a SxS or O/U. No matter what the bad elements will find a way to do their un ethical activities against as much of society as possible.

As for Zumbo's 1st Ammendment rights, they are still in place as are the 1st ammendment rights of all his haters. Will OL can him? No, unless they loose lots of ad money over this, which they wont. The only thing I find objectionable about it all is his hipocracy over some time ago claiming that all hunters/shooters have their choice to the arms they use, and then reversing that and saying that people using AR style guns shouldn't. Do we each have the right to change our minds? Yes we do. But to change your mind because you pissed yourself in fear of a "terrorist" weapon is not a good enough reason.
 
The only one by Jay that I saw was about eating oatmeal. I personally can not believe a "gun" writer would publicly espouse the banning of any legally owned firearm for hunting. If the caliber is legal for the hunting it's being used for, the magazine limited to the legal capacity..what the hell?? Maybe everybody should be using them, that way the scared to death non hunters that apparently are watching our every move in the outdoors will take them for granted and accept them lovingly with open arms as they have all of our other fire arms.I've owned some "assault" rifles..it was before they were coined "assault" rifles..wonder who named them..and why? They were some of the most accurate .223 and .308 rifles I have ever shot. They were also some of the safest rifles I have used with big safeties that had positive clicks or stops and larger trigger openings so a gloved finger could be inserted without inadvertantly squeezing the trigger.They were designed for armies so that anyone could be trained in their use "safely".What about all the black composite stocks that are so popular with hunters now? They make a shotgun look pretty menacing to someone that doesn't hunt or own firearms. Aww crap, I'm gonna quit writing anymore and try to watch the end of the Daytona 500..since in my mind the legal use of a tool is a complete non issue.
 
I certainly think that there are enough sporting firearms on the market that we can leave the assault rifles home. That's my opinion. Lets face it guys, we are sportsman not soldiers. I can say that because I'm among fellow hunters. I would not however sell out a fellow sportsman to the general public. Lets leave the bitchin' and moanin' about what and why we shoot to the bleeding heart liberals. They seem to get a rise out of it. I don't blame Zumbo for the article, hell I agree with him. But I do blame the editors of OL for allowing this to go to print. Maybe they should run for office. They will have a much easier time at making us sportsman look bad. Never leave your brother in the trenches, even if you do dissagree with him. For God sakes, he's your brother!
 
"Now, according to DJ and Andrew they will be filled with horror at the sight of me with a 25 round magazine sticking out of my Ruger 10/22 if I was someplace other than a shooting range. It is a semi automatic, .22 caliber rifle with detachable high capacity magazines so in words it is identical to an AR-15."


Ray, not filled with horror, I don't think that's what was said. Actually I think the word was pissed. Yours is no assault rifle chief, it looks like a 22 cal hunting gun, with, well... a big clip. Take a look at CNN on any night, look at the guns used by them and us, then look in an average hunter's gun case. World's different. It's like that old adage about porn, you know it when you see it.
 
Just my .02 on this ,

We all love our weapons that we use to pursue the prey we hunt, i was never nor will i ever be in favor of any assault style guns , such as machine guns and such . in my honest opinion and only my opinion those types of weapons are only for our armed forces and law inforcement . in the wrong hands those guns are definately what they are named after Assualt rifles. Around these parts it would be close to impossible to even shoot on at any club never mind own one. I figured i would thrown in my opinion for what it is worth .


Dave M
 
That Zumbo guy is a real A**HOLE. His blog is intentionally inflamatory. His argumant is semi-auto=assault weapon=terrorist. And therefore anyone hunting with this type of gun is a "BAD HUNTER". Conclusion is that we should not associate with said "BAD HUNTER". Just MAYBE a semi automatic COULD be a more sporting than a bolt action or a level action rifle. Just MAYBE, if an animal gets up after the first GOOD shot, the hunter can make a GOOD quick SECOND shot with his semi automatic? I guess I'm a terrorist because I use a semi - automatic Benelli, huh Mr Zumbo?
 
I've not read the blog, but will toss in my 2 cents. Also, I'm not a rifle shooter, never have been.

1. If the caliber of the rifle is legal to shoot in the state of residence or place of hunt, what is the big deal?

2. (This may stir the pot a little) How can a bolt-action, single shot rifle be considered the same as a semi-automatic, assault-type rifle like an AK47, AR15, etc?

Nate
 
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