Deer ticks and Lymes

Pete McMiller

Well-known member
Anyone know the gestation period from the deer tick bite until symptoms are apparent? A buddy pulled off one today - figures it has been imbedded for something like 48 hours. I had always heard 7-10 days but have no idea if that is accurate.
 
Pete, the tick has been in him long enough he should go to the doctor and get on antibotic's . I hunt in a god aweful tick infested area in the hudson valley of NY and have been dealing with these little bastards for awhile. They carry plently of things you don't want so 2 weeks of anti's and he won't have to worry.
This past season one of the crew bought a pair of treated hunting clothes,while hanging our days kill we put Ticks on his clothes and watched them stumble like drunken sailors and fall off. I treated my clothes and gear with Sawyer's permethrin, a week before I traveled south ,I gutted three deer that weekend and didn't have a tick on me at all. We did a test on my boots,tick would climb for a few seconds start to retreat then fall off. We took Deet poured it on a friends boots (wet) then put a tick in the deet,it traveled thru the deet and proceeded up his boot. The treatment I use last about 4 weeks,you treat the clothes and let them dry . You don't use it on the garement against the skin.
Next week is our turkey opener,I will be hunting in the St Lawerence valley and yes I am treating my turkey gear this week.
 
Kevin,

I agree about the Sawyers Permithrin. I've has similar results in N. Wisconsin grouse coverts. Had 16 ticks on my one day, treated my clothes that night and had no ticks the next day. My buddy had the same number of ticks both days. Fortunately the ticks aren't too bad right now - at least where I have been this spring.
 
I like the sawyer's to,5 washings,scent free,might give you a headache .We had a very mild winter here in Northern Ny so I am thinking they will be at least as bad as last fall. the season before I treated my clothes i had 13 ticks on me. i have gone through treatments 6 times over the past 12 years. I use to bow hunt in NJ in the 90's and they were bad there as well. When you feel that bead of sweat runnning down your back you know it's a tick.
 
My Daughter had one that was on for 48 hours or longer. Urgent Care did nothing for treatment. We were instructed to wait for symptoms to present and then treat. Apparently the Doc did not want to prescribe antibiotics unless "necessary". Seriously they wanted to wait for symptoms of limes to present in a 6 year old before treating. My wife insisted on the script but got no where.

We called in to the family doc's office. She was off that day and that is why we had to go to urgent care. Nurse called the Doc at home got a script and our Doc gave urgent care a call. Its my understanding to discuss there differing opinions in treatment.

Moral of the story, get the antibiotics. If the first doc won't prescribe then get another opinion.
 
See doctor as soon as possible...It is the other infections that need to be treated as well....

I humbly agree with Permethrin or even Parmanone....I have used the Parmanone for years when I lived in Kentucky for early season bow hunting. Spray liberal coats on your cloth and allow to dry for at least 24 hours. The stuff last for months even if washed several cycles. Plus it is semi-order less....Did not effect taking any quarry!

Regards,
Kristan
 
Go to the doctor and get antibiotics right away. I have lyme disease and it was diagnosed in a later stage. It has caused me problems even after several courses of antibiotics. Trust me you don't want to deal with it. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 
I've had a good bit of experience with the little buggers and Lyme disease. For reference, I live one town over from Lyme, Ct. My mother got it in 1978, before doctors were well versed in diagnosing it, even though she had the now classic "bulls-eye" rash. After it was finally treated some weeks later it had progressed to the point where she had to have a knee replaced after a few years.

Now I own a civil engineering/land surveying company and every one of our field staff has had a positive titer for the disease after pulling one of the nasties off, including me. My recollection is that the bite area usually swells a little for most people, some get a rash which may become a bulls-eye, and almost everybody gets a headache/fever within a week if they are infected. I have not seen a bite that didn't show some sign of infection and the person subsequently tested positive but I understand that it does happen. Another thing to consider is whether the tick is a larvae (absolutely tiny), nymph (really small), or adult. There are pictures on the internet for reference. The older ticks are more likely to be infected and pass it along because they have fed on other animals, which is the means by which they become infected as they are only a vector. On the bright side we live in an area with a very high incidence of the disease and it seems that only one in 5-10 bites results in an infection. The key is to get them off in under a day, if they are on for 48 hours I believe that spells trouble if the tick is a carrier. We have gotton bitten so many times that we tend to ignore them unless we see symptoms, but it makes sense to speak with your doctor and get a head start with antibiotics if possible.
 
If you see a ring around the bite, then thats a clue that there was an infection, which means it is time to get antibiotics. I am surprised that a doc would not give antibiotics unless "necessary" since you can get an MRI for a stubbed toe if you want.

Anyways, if you can't get the antibiotics, just buy em online, its not worth getting lyme or rocky mountain spotted fever.
 
I would not wait for reaction or a positive test. The antibiotics are more effective the sooner they are applied.
I was bit in an area with few cases but, the doctor said it is not worth the risk. The more time goes by the less effective the treatment will be.
If a doctor won't prescribe, maybe it is time to visit another daoctor with more background with Lymes.
 
I had a tick on me and the doc prescribed antibiotics right away. He said that over 50% of the ticks in this area test positive for lyme so why not be safe.
 
One of my good friends died from the ravages of advanced Lyme Disease. His heart failed.

The MD I had in PA is one of the best Lyme Disease MD's in the USA. People come from all over the country to see him.
Years ago he had posters in his office advising people to keep Humming Bird feeders AWAY from homes - as ticks use Humming Birds as hosts, and drop off at feeders.
 
I've been using Sawyer's too for the last year while bird hunting. I usually spray my pants, boots, and outer coat before going into the woods. The dog's bed also gets sprayed. Stuff works great and the ticks stay off.

If you get bit and the tick is on/in you for a while, best to go see the doc ASAP and get some meds before it progresses.


Nate
 
The vet my wife works for said to get to the doctors within 24 hrs to avoid any issues.
They are bad this year around here! John
 
Hey Pete,

I sent you a bunch of information from a pay to use site called "UP to DATE" we use it in the medical field all the time, it is something like 8 or 900/year to subscribe. Anyhow, they essentially look at all the recommendations from all the literature and summarize the points of the day. Below is a snipet of what I sent you. Essentially I will tell you I completely agree with all the guys above, go in, send off some blood for confirmatory testing, BUT, get treated after the blood is sent. Do not wait. too many things can go wrong. I know they are saying to wait on treatment, but I personally don't feel like playing those games. Your buddy typically will not see any local symptoms for a few days and it will take 7-10 days minimum to develop an antibody response which is what is picked up by the testing.

Put it this way, when I picked one up last year and my kids dug it out of my back, I treated myself right away. My infectious disease doc I talked with gave me the "you should test, wait blah blah speach" but then when I asked him if he would have treated his wife or kid right away his line changed to "hell yah, would in a heartbeat"!!

so to me that answered that pretty well.

SUMMARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS
The diagnosis of early Lyme disease can be made solely on clinical grounds if the characteristic erythema migrans (EM) lesion is present in a patient who lives in or has recently traveled to an area that is endemic for Lyme disease (picture 1 and picture 2). The patient with a characteristic EM lesion will likely be seronegative, since the lesion appears prior to development of a diagnostic, adaptive immune response. Laboratory testing is neither required nor recommended. (See 'Approach to diagnosis' above.)
In contrast to the negative serology at the time of the appearance of the EM lesion, by the time the patient has findings of early disseminated extracutaneous disease (eg, lymphocytic meningitis, facial palsy, radiculoneuropathy, carditis with heart block), serologic tests are positive, as they are in patients with late Lyme disease. (See 'Approach to diagnosis' above.)
Serologic testing should be performed in patients who meet all of the following criteria:
A recent history of having resided in or traveled to an area endemic for Lyme disease

and
A risk factor for exposure to ticks

and
Symptoms consistent with early disseminated disease or late Lyme disease (eg, meningitis, radiculopathy, mononeuritis, cranial nerve palsy, arthritis, carditis) (See 'Indications for serologic testing' above.)
Serologic testing for Lyme disease should not be performed in the following settings:
In patients with an EM rash. Patients with skin rashes consistent with EM who reside in or have recently traveled to an endemic area should be treated for Lyme disease. (See "Clinical manifestations of Lyme disease in adults", section on 'Erythema migrans' and "Lyme disease: Clinical manifestations in children", section on 'Erythema migrans' and "Treatment of Lyme disease", section on 'Early disease (erythema migrans)'.)
For screening of asymptomatic patients living in endemic areas
For patients with non-specific symptoms only (eg, fatigue, myalgias/arthralgias). The use of serologic testing in populations with a low pre-test probability of Lyme disease results in a greater likelihood of false positive test results than true positive test results. (See 'Indications for serologic testing' above.)
A skin lesion similar to EM can be seen in Southern tick-associated rash illness (STARI); however, the geographic distribution of Lyme disease and STARI are usually different (exceptions are Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey). (See 'Distinction from STARI' above.)
When serologic testing is indicated, two-tier testing is recommended. This approach uses an ELISA followed by a Western blot as the tests of choice. (See 'Serologic tests' above.)
Routine follow-up serologic testing is not recommended in assessing the patient who is cured or slowly improving. (See 'Persistence of antibodies' above.)
The diagnosis of neurologic Lyme disease and Lyme arthritis are discussed separately. (See "Nervous system Lyme disease", section on 'Diagnosis' and "Musculoskeletal manifestations of Lyme disease", section on 'Laboratory testing'.)
PCR testing of specimens of CSF or synovial fluid for B. burgdorferi DNA in a reliable laboratory can add confirmatory information in seropositive patients. However, a positive PCR result by itself is likely to be a false-positive result, and a positive result does not prove that the patient has active infection, since spirochetal DNA may persist long after spirochetal killing has occurred. (See 'Polymerase chain reaction' above.)
Use of laboratory tests other than these to support a diagnosis of Lyme disease is not recommended. (See 'Special considerations' above.)
 
Sawyers is great stuff.Spray my clothes everytime I go turkey or deer hunting.Never had a tick on me that I know of. Can't say if I had any of the symptom either
 
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If your doctor is any good he will not Rx antibiotics simply because of the tick bite itself.

Ed.
 
Sawers is great stuff.Spray my clothes everytime I go turkey or deer hunting.Never had a tick on me that I know of. Can't say if I had any of the symptom either
I was amazed how effective it is. I will spray my gear down the day before the turkey opener and won't have to reapply it for the whole month. I will probably buy a set of treated clothes before the fall deer season.
 
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