Depth Finder and Navigation

Jeff Reardon said:
I think you've already made up your mind to go another way, but if you want navigation without a depth sounder, you could also download a GPS mapping app to your phone, and mount it on a cup phone or something similar. It allows you to lay down tracks as you go, and even to lay down a route in advance and follow it. I've used GAIAGPS, largely because they had a great online layer of NOAA marine charts in addition to USGS maps and satellite/aerial. Unfortunately the new marine chart layer available from NOAA--ENC charts--has much less resolution on shallow water structure than the old layer based off their paper charts did. Works for me--and even better in the woods than in the boat. But even with a secure mount for the phone, screen size is limited. https://www.weathertech.com/cupfone...cEx7HyQSfIiOjVsaPohd8X0Nb0ljPVKYaAqoJEALw_wcB
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HI Jeff,

I put a cell phone mount in my boat last year to give that a try but I found that I want a larger screen and it all in one system. Were it is mounted is just to far for my eyes which is why I hold it. I plan to keep the cell phone mount because I like having it readily available in the summer when I am fishing but nice and safe in my pocket when hunting. The only downside I am seeing to a chartplotter at this point is having to have to pay an additional subscription for satellite images regardless of who you go with. I will probably give it a go for a season without the satellite imaging than upgrade next year if I feel it would be beneficial. I hunt a lot of tidal water on the Columbia with up to 9' tidal swings so I am curious how much "land" I will be going over on the map. I have the green light from the accountant (my wife) as I sold it as a safety issue so will be getting something this weekend before she changes her mind. Once it warms up I will make the mods to the boat and install. I am going to spend a little more time at the store going through the menus of both Garmin and Lowrance to see which interface I like more and is more intuitive to me.
 
Just to add some real life complication to these scenarios, another common issue using GPS devices that intersect with digital map data is that at high zoom levels, the combination of location uncertainty from GPS and data location mis-alignment among map layers from different sources can be pretty high. On a recent stream survey project, I was in the field with my phone GPS app displaying USGS Topo Sheet layer; I was a with a state fisheries biologist who had had stream data collected and mapped by his agency in a Field Maps data collection app; and we were with the landowner's forester who had what should have been identical USGS data to mine displayed on an IPAD in an App called Avenza. We were standing in the middle of the physical stream, and each of our devices would have suggested that we were 25-100 feet on one side or the other of it. After the fact, the most GIS savvy of us--NOT ME!--replotted a set of way points from our path down the stream, and found that it lined up almost perfectly with the stream channel's low point as mapped with LIDAR imagery converted to 2' contours--and that did not coincide with any of the base maps we were using. I try to keep my devices as zoomed out as possible to avoid the dangers of false precision--especially when the consequences of being off by a few feet might be substantial. I generally figure my devices are good for +/- 100' or so, and don't cut corners any closer than that.
 
Jeff, do you use a GPS puck or your phone's GPS? We switched to all pucks, not sure which brand. In open areas we are getting centimeter accuracy. In dense canopy, usually submeter, but sometimes we still have to post process.
Cant remember what app we are using for data collection, I leave that to the tech savy younger field biologist. This old guys now mainly supervises or runs the boat!
 
Carl said:
Jeff, do you use a GPS puck or your phone's GPS? We switched to all pucks, not sure which brand. In open areas we are getting centimeter accuracy. In dense canopy, usually submeter, but sometimes we still have to post process.
Cant remember what app we are using for data collection, I leave that to the tech savy younger field biologist. This old guys now mainly supervises or runs the boat!
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I just use my phone. But the issue is not that our three devices disagreed on location. They all spit out close to identical coordinates. The issue was the base map layers from different sources did not agree with each other, sometimes by as much as 100'. If I set a waypoint in my phone and want to navigate back to it, I can hit in the pitch black, and do that over and over. But my location relative to a NOAA chart or USGS Topo or satellite image is a different matter, and amount of difference varies by location. Never more than ~100', but almost never spot on, at least when using maps initially created on paper in pre-GPS days. And don't even get me started on how mapping of stream networks varies by quadrangle depending on how good a job the survey crews did when they originally laid them down. Not an issue for larger streams, but when you get down to the first order and intermittent streams, some show much more detail than others. Most people looking at streams are now using stream networks drawn by computers from LIDAR or other high res remote sensing rather than networks as mapped decades or longer ago.
 
I do get very poor reception on GPS in depth finder . To the point a lot of days its non functioning/ won,t lock onto satellite's. Other days reception is fine but that doesn,t happen a lot. My wire bundle which I assume has an antenna leads in it is tucked under my aluminum console. Always wondered if there's a way to hook an external small antenna to unit positioned outside console to possibly get better reception.
 
roy brewington said:
I do get very poor reception on GPS in depth finder . To the point a lot of days its non functioning/ won,t lock onto satellite's. Other days reception is fine but that doesn,t happen a lot. My wire bundle which I assume has an antenna leads in it is tucked under my aluminum console. Always wondered if there's a way to hook an external small antenna to unit positioned outside console to possibly get better reception.
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How old is this unit?
 
I was wondering how the same. Does it have a remote antenna? Almost all ones made in the last 20 years have internal antenna.
Makes me think you have a short inside or a software glitch.
Unless you are under tree cover, everywhere in the US should have enough signal to get a fix within 5 minutes, even from a cold start with no previous fix.
 
Carl said:
I was wondering how the same. Does it have a remote antenna? Almost all ones made in the last 20 years have internal antenna.
Makes me think you have a short inside or a software glitch.
Unless you are under tree cover, everywhere in the US should have enough signal to get a fix within 5 minutes, even from a cold start with no previous fix.
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I dont think ive ever not been able to find GPS on my units and ive been in some insane rural places where cell phones had no chance of getter service.
 
Bought the unit new in about 2014. If I recall its a Garman but not 100 percent sure without uncovering boat. I'm assuming antenna is built into the wire bundle I,ve got laying under console as there's no coax connector to attach an external antenna that I've found.
 
I mounted a 9” unit on the gunnel right in front of me. Run my route in the day then trust my saved track after dark.

Basic 7” models with GPS are running about $500 and 9” screens, $700
 

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I went ahead a purchased the Garmen echomap 7". PLayed around with the Lowrance a bit and the Garmin was just easier to use and more intuitive. I have a few home projects in the hopper right now and won't get to installing it for a bit but I will give update when I do! Probably won't be taking the boat out for a couple months so there is no big rush on it.
 
I’d want nothing to do with Lowrance’s triple shot transducer on a strictly duck rig. They break at the mount so often that there are dozens of companies 3-d printing slip on replacements. Side imaging is nice but that thing sticks out like a sore toe. Mine is held in place with rubber washers now so it can bump out of the way or I can tip it up when I don’t need it.
 

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Michael McCord1 said:
I’d want nothing to do with Lowrance’s triple shot transducer on a strictly duck rig. They break at the mount so often that there are dozens of companies 3-d printing slip on replacements. Side imaging is nice but that thing sticks out like a sore toe. Mine is held in place with rubber washers now so it can bump out of the way or I can tip it up when I don’t need it.
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Ya agree with this. Which is the small lowrance xdcer that does side scan? I could of swore they had a small one like the skimmer size that did side scan as well? I could be wrong on this. Been awhile since i bought an xdcer from lowrance.
 
William Reinicke said:
Ya agree with this. Which is the small lowrance xdcer that does side scan? I could have swore they had a small one like the skimmer size that did side scan as well? I could be wrong on this. Been awhile since i bought an xdcer from lowrance.
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I’m not sure there is one. The triple shot is the one for their base Hook/Eagle line. Activeimage and Totalscan transducers stick out like that too.
 
Michael McCord1 said:
I’m not sure there is one. The triple shot is the one for their base Hook/Eagle line. Activeimage and Totalscan transducers stick out like that too.
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Might be right. And I think I had mine ethernet connected. I just know I had the ability to see side scan on my front fish finder. But now that I think about it, it was because they were all wired together and I may have been seeing it off the front finder from the back xdcer which was my total scan xdcer.
 
William Reinicke said:
Might be right. And I think I had mine ethernet connected. I just know I had the ability to see side scan on my front fish finder. But now that I think about it, it was because they were all wired together and I may have been seeing it off the front finder from the back xdcer which was my total scan xdcer.
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Sounds right. The Hook/Eagle line doesn’t network
 
Michael McCord1 said:
Sounds right. The Hook/Eagle line doesn’t network
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Ya im running HDS elite and Carbon units on the bass boat. I know I have some old model on the duck boat that ethernet together but those units are long gone from production at this point. Works very well for GPS though. Heck even the carbon unit has been discontinued at this point, but it works so good at the helm still. Would take a lot for me to get rid of it. Side scan is so good on that unit. Elite's up front mainly for active imaging and mapping
 
The size of the newer transducers was a concern. I had to make a "break away" mount years ago for current humminbird transducer which is small compared to the standard size transducer now. The T20 that came with the Garmin is about 5" long and I have already had multiple thoughts on how to keep it from breaking off. One thing I do know is that on a duck boat, If it can break, it will.
 
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