Dog question for the brain trust here

Dani

Dani

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So Belle is a little bitty English Setter. She has topped the scales at 36 lbs and she just turned two so she isn't going to get any taller. To get an idea of size, here she is next to me. Steve's dog B is about two inches taller than my lab was and a friend has 6 month old English setter puppies bigger than Belle. Belle also doesn't have a super thick coat. Both of these characteristics present a problem in the field, especially down here in FL where there is a large variety of evil thorned plants that she runs through with abandon.

i-T3gMd3v-XL.jpg


The problem is that her forelegs especially take a beating. In MT, after a couple of weeks, she had to wear vet wrap like this all the time unless she was hunting because she would lick constantly and keep her legs irritated. I believe that Steve wrapped her before a couple of hunts to see if that would help but I think the vet wrap ended up coming off during the hunt or becoming more problems than it was worth. But I don't know that for sure.

i-jXKJbTv-XL.jpg


After one hard quail hunt here in FL where she encountered way more blackberry brambles and other thorny vines than she does when we go run along the river, her forelegs were looking like they did after two weeks in MT. And of course she doesn't leave them alone...I'm sure they hurt.

So a couple of questions. I will keep her legs vet wrapped when we are at home but is there something that I could apply that would help to soothe the aches and pains associated with basically running naked through blackberry thickets?

Also, I have been looking into something like this, but she takes a great deal of beating at her elbow joint so this wouldn't help with that (and I am not sure if the shin guard would create chafing issues at the elbow joint as she runs). Has anyone ever used something like this to help protect their dogs' legs? How effective is it?

https://www.gundogsupply.com/sylmar-leg-protection-tube.html

Or is there another product that would be more effective? I will try to vet wrap her next Tuesday when I take her back out there but I don't have high hopes that it will stay up over her elbow as she runs....I imagine it will slide down to just hanging out between her elbow and wrist like in the picture above.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Dani
 
The only thing I can say is that we've been watching Dr Pol on TV, and when he's wrapping a leg for bandages he sprays an ether base starter fluid on the hair before wrapping and he claims it helps the tape and wrap stick better.
He does horses and cows hoofs and legs that are standing in manure and claims it will stay on for the week of the treatment.

IF you try it, and it works for you, post back, I'd be interested in the outcome.
 
Post hunt antiseptic treatment would be forefront in my mind. Many
little puncture wounds could possibly be a source of infection.
Hook up with a pointing group in your area and glen info from them on
a good sporting dog Vet in your area to consult with for the best pre and post
hunt protocol.
 
Dani,

I have a couple of pairs of carhaart jeans that I brush guarded with Latex paint. It dries like leather and it is waterproof.

You'd need an elizabethan collar until the paint set and be sure to do it outdoors.

I think it'd work, and it would wear off after a while. You could do a swatch of it on the front two legs where she usually gets scraped up.






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Thanks y'all for some ideas.

I'll shoot Joe a note, Bob.

I am open to more ideas or if anyone has experience with those shin guards or something like it, hearing about what they think

Dani
 
I second sending Joe a message. If Joe doesn't know what to do there isn't probably a way to help.

I know dogs that seem to get cut and scraped up continue to. Hope you are able to figure somet huh int out.

Tim
 
Dani, It sounds like the tube might be worth a try. It may be tricky getting them tight enough to stay on, but not too tight, which could bother her blood flow, which could make her feet swell. It looks like the tube is flexible at the top and bottom, but sometimes it could cause a sore at the top or bottom so a little extra padding on the leg at that point might help. I would definitely keep a close watch on her at first. The tea shirt idea may help with her chest and belly. Someone recommended asking other pointer/setter owners about a local vet who they use, especially someone who hunts--a good idea. Keep us utd on the condition.
 
My suggestion would be to find a dog chest protector and sew-in arm tubes clad in either waxed canvas below the joints on her forearms, or 1500 D Cordura nylon. Rockywoods was selling the heavy Cordura, but from what I recall it was only available in black. The shoulder area and forearm joints should be a lighter highly flexible fabric that will exhibit minimum chafing.

https://www.baselineequipment.com/...ntent=All%20Products

https://www.orvis.com/p/cuga-dog-vest/2R24?item_code=2R241053&adv=127748&cm_mmc=plas-_-Hunting-_-2R24-_-127748&msclkid=493d551f6a6f1f19d8fa0b1a8c95825a&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=802%3A%20Fishing,%20Flies%20%26%20Hunting&utm_term=4576854591031426&utm_content=Hunting

Karen had a good suggestion: Attach the shin guards to the forward quadrant of the vest armholes with a heavier cordura and leave the rear half to two-thirds open for ventilation and to minimize chafing.

I agree black berry thickets for pheasants and grouse, as well as wild rose clumps.are nasty. If I could only figure-out a cure for cut canola fields in the northern plains...the really chew-up pads on a dog.
 
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Rick,

I actually have kind of already thought about what Karen suggested. I have been doing a lot of searching online for different kinds of dog vests and ran across something like this

hunting-vest-300x300.png


I have seen them with sleeves going all the way down to their wrists. I have also considered a dog skid plate and attaching arms to it somehow, leaving the back open for ventilation.

My concern is that I need it to only protect the areas of her legs and maybe just her chest. The full vest like above is too much for the heat that we commonly have to deal with down here in FL. I may have to consider designing/making something that is part skid plate and part warrior princess arm guards and just leave it at that.

I will look for a kids tshirt and see if that will help her this weekend.

Thanks all for the thoughts....
 

Dani,

The only solution that my family, and friends found for the problems your having.

Have many dogs.


Yes they do take over your life, all require constant care, and no days off for the care giver. As you well know.

Try as we might to keep them healthy and safe. They take a helluva beating, and require medical care and down time.

Bird dog owners are a special breed, just as the dogs are, and there are seldom simple solutions.


With any kind of vest, and wrap, over heating can be a real problem that can kill a setter and pointer quickly.

I have seen this more than once out west, and hopefully will not see it ever again.


Be selective as to the days and time you hunt.

And as my Uncle Frank always said "Always keep yer eyes on the dog."


2 cents from a old bird hunter
 
Vince....I agree on the have more than one dog. Steve was limited to two dogs...and I right now have a personal limit of two dogs but between the two of us that would have been four dogs for us to hunt with. That is now out of the question.

I was planning on getting a lab puppy this spring but circumstances have changed that for right now I think. I will have a second dog in the future (and he will be a lab) and hopefully Debby will let me take B hunting from time to time, but for right now it is just Belle and me so I need to figure a way to best protect her. Plus, as Tim said....it seems that dogs that tend to get torn up easily deal with that all their lives.

For a long while, Steve and I hunted with just his lab Mike for upland. Then when Mike died, just Drake. Both boys would get torn up pretty badly by the time our ten day hunts were over and they were tired but they were also young. We were definitely one good vet visit away from being dogless. Steve hunted MT one year with just Drake. He held up well, but dogs need breaks too. When Steve got B, her first year she thought she was indestructible. And she spent a week on the injured reserve list because she figured barbed wire fences were as forgiving as silly string. She learned to give barbed wire a little more respect (a very little but a little) but it was at that point that Steve and I seriously began talking about the need for more than one dog each and Drake was beginning to slow down with age.

If money and time were no object, I'd have three dogs of my own....maybe four. But I'd also have a bigger house and lots of space for them to run and no need to work so I could play all hunting season
 

Dani,

I hear thee!


Four dogs for a extended western hunt are a very reasonable number.

Labs are the most popular breed for good reasons...


When my friends and I first went to SD years ago. We took setters, and a Chessie.

We hunted several days with a husband & wife team, my friend met through Pheasants Forever. They had Labs that really knew their jobs.

They had never hunted with pointing dogs.

When one of the setters went on point (like 5 mins. into the hunt) the husband asked. "Is that a point?" I'll never forget that, and my buddy said "Ya" and we smiled.


Later we asked them why labs, instead of pointing dogs? They said. "To many birds, and more scent than most dogs can handle."

We found that they were correct.

About that time hunters were paying big money for pointing labs. For what reason I could never understand, but to each their own.


After many trips to SD and ND we found the English Setter & Chessie combo to be very productive. The best of both worlds, for us anyway.

Yet even with very good care, after weeks of hunting they were tattered and torn. They slept very hard on the drive home, and at some stops had to be carried out of the truck to do their business.


When my best waterfowl hunting partner, and I began to go to Montana for upland birds. We only took his Chessie's.

For pheasants, Sharptails, Huns, and Sage Grouse, they were hell on four legs, and the windier the better. Not as much running as a pointer, lots more hunting.

Fences, ground cactus, rattle snakes, and Badgers were always part of the deal.

Some folks discount the Chessie cuz of what they read, and hear about them. IMO a dog is only as good as it's caretaker.

If I were younger, and had to choose between a lab, and a Chessie for a all around dog, it would be a tough call. As I have hunted with some great ones.


It reads as though you have had some wonderful hunting experiences, and God Willing many more to come.

I wish you all the best.


VP
 
Why not simply cut some "windows" in it on the sides as large as you dare, and sew-in FL. orange mesh or white stretch mesh? What I am concerned about with just the shin guards is the need to synch them down well enough to hold and not spin around or slide off. Muscles engorge and swell as blood flow increases during exercise. I used to XC race with a knee brace. In marathons I always had to stop at least once to redo all the Velcro straps because my leg would start to cramp. If you start with that design with front leg extensions included, all you would need do is sew-on some ballistic cloth to the front of the legs to afford protection.

I once witnessed a black Labrador nearly die due to heat stroke while hunting cane strips. The dog never came out of one row and we went in to find him. Luckily our host had a big jug of water in his truck (it was his dog). We poured a couple gallons on his belly to try and cool his core down and got him on a wet towel someone produced. I rummaged through a couple coolers in the trucks and came up with an ice-pack held on his neck/head to cool his brainstem and ran him back to the ranch house which was only 3/8s of a mile away. I told Robert I thought the dog was acting disoriented about fifteen minutes prior his collapse, but he blew me off. He survived, but when I checked on him he was delirious, growling and barking. I had put Crockett up in one of the adjacent kennels that morning because her feet and pads were so raw from hunting the a cut canola field the day prior. Moral of story, as you know, water the dog twice as much as yourself.

IF you cut this back to keep there peritoneal cavity exposed, and sewed-in mesh on the sides of the thorax, leaving the chest front and shoulders intact. You could also sew-on an insert pocket up near the brainstem to put a cold pack in and Velcro it shut on withering hot days.
 
Knowing nothing about hunting dogs. Could you fashion something like what soccer players wear on their shins? Elastic all down the back side and a pad in the front. Then place a mesh sock over the whole thing?

For what it is worth.
 
I know very little about hunting dogs, but if either you or the manufacturer can make a version of what Mark shared that has two leg sleeves, it would be perfect. You might also need to beef it up if the fabric would get torn up.

As common a problem as this is and as much stuff as is marketed for gun dogs I'm surprised someone isn't making something for this.
 
The problem with making protective gear for upland dogs is usually chafing.
The t-shirt idea is probably about as good as it might get. Anything with much mass that rides on the legs could chafe them. Since these dogs travel many miles to each of ours just one field can leave them with a bad sore. Been there and done that. Felt like crap because of it too.

Here is something that might be able to be modified to help. Link here
If you do try it Dani do some short test runs first. Maybe some type of silicone or plastic cement impregnated into the front of the legs could make them tougher.
Just make sure to check her over a lot. I'm uneasy with anything that goes too near the arm pits or over any joints on an upland dog.
 
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Upland bird dogs take a world of abuse hunting for us. Trying their best to please master, themselves, and "Get That Bird".

The span of time in which they can do that, and do it well is very limited, as far as years are concerned.

Considering how long such dogs have been well cared for, loved, and hunted.

IF there were a way to protect them better than how they are created, it would have been done by now.

But yet we still try.


As much as we love them as friends and family, sadly hunting abuse, and injury are part of the deal.

Died in the wool Bird dog men & women see dogs come, and go with regularity.

It takes a, mentality and heart much stronger than my own.

Country folks seem to be way better at it, than we citified folks. For reasons that are self apparent.


A very dear friend, and breeder of bird dogs sez.

"You never forget a one of them, and you make sure you are never without one, or many."

Even after many years, he can name and describe every bird dog that lived in there home, and lived a good life.


Being afield with a good bird dog, when birds are found, is like no other hunting experience.

Those are the days that the dogs and hunter live for.

Rough shooting, I think not.


VP
 
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