Dog question

J

JimO

Member
My brother called me yesterday and told me he was thinking about buying my nephew (his son) a dog. My nephew is 14 and lives about 20 minutes away from me. My nephew wants a dog that he can train and hunt with and requested one "like" my yellow lab Holly (I got my nephew into hunting and fishing many years ago, along with my two boys). Holly is an american field breed yellow lab from Ebonstar Lean Mac's line (he is her grandfather). She is a great hunting dog, lot of energy, lot of drive, very good waterfowl and upland hunting skills. That being said, I think that type of dog is WAY too much dog for a beginner (my brother, does not hunt, and has not owned a dog since we were kids and even then, I took care of our family dogs).

We live on the east coast of Massachusetts. Any suggestions for a breeder or even type of dog would be great. I think a dog that is from a hunting line, but not "field trial" material would be perfect for my brothers family and I can work help my nephew with hunting training.

Thank you

Jim O'Brien

ps: I tried to change my profile name to Jim O'Brien... but cannot since someone else has that name!
 
Hi Jim,

Don't know any names...but there is a great article in this month's issue of "Wildfowl" on picking out a pup. Good luck!
 
I sent you a PM...

As far as picking, find a good breeding, sort by gender/color, close your eyes and grab one......or take the one that picks you. Beyond that it's a cropshoot.
 
Jim,

My lab is also from Ebonstar Lean mac's blood line, he is my dog's grand father as well. I agree with you totally. This is way too much dog for a beginner. He is actually way to much dog for me! He has an amazing drive and is equally intellegent, however, he has two positions..... on or off. He handles extremely well but everything he does is full throttle, he holds nothing back which makes for a wonderful hunting dog but a not so good house dog. I would suggest you look into the Hunt test blood line. In my opinion, the difference between Hunt test dogs and Field trial labs is hunt test dogs are bread for their handling ability where as the Field trials are bread for handling as well as running BIG.

I would suggest to google the hunt test and find out where they are held locally and maybe go to one and talk to the people there. I have been to a few hunt test's and trained with some members and they have all seemed to be pretty genuine, not a whole lot of competiotion like field trials where everyone is trying for the top spot of NFC. The hunt test people seem to be all about helping each other get their dog to the best of their dogs ability as the top title in this class can be held by any dog that passes the test for that level. As in any breeding there is no way to guarantee a champion out of a litter, but I feel going into these lines will guarantee you a good hunting dog and great companion.... the rest is up to you, the trainer. Just my .02

Good Luck,

Gene
 
This is a bit tough. I agree with you though, no crazy, hot, trial style dog for a kid.... This might sound nuts but I would start looking for a dog that many might consider a "mutt"....that accidental breeding and the parents are well behaved dogs, family dogs that also hunt......ask all your local hunting buddies and keep looking....maybe even the local vet could direct you to a breeding. Just an idea.

Matt
 
Somebody told me once that Lean Mac got passed around as much as a dollar bill in a strip joint, or something like that.... Just sayin'
 
Just think what would happen if the AKC advocated AI without the sire being required to be DNA certified. Poor dog would have been drained for sure
 
Lean Mac was a great contributor to the Field Trial world. If you wanted a dog that could place or win in a trial, you could spend the money and stack your deck in your favor getting a pup out of Lean Mac. He didn't become a NAFC nor a CNAFC by not have trainability. See, what people don't realize is the FT world requires Marking and Trainability. What may be seen in a dog from this kind of bloodline is huge prey drive and alot of energy. If you go with a reputable breeder that has screened out CNM and EIC and cerf'ed the litter as puppies and has good hip and elbow clearances, you're setting yourself up for a hunting companion that can be around and hunt with you for 6-10 years. If a pup is allowed to be unruly because the owner doesn't want to "ruin" them by settling them down as a pup, then bad habits can develop. If the pup is trained from day 49 to learn to sit quietly, be rewarded for doing so and by having the owner stay calm, you can take a dog from a Lean Mac breeding and put it in a home with a 14 year old owner. You have to know that these dogs are "Trainable" and it doesn't mean to start the training a week before the season and then blame the dog on opening day for whining, bouncing around in the boat while you're setting decoys etc. You have to commit to condition the pup to work with and along side of you and it's only done by actually spending time training the dog. Keep the word Trainability in the forefront. A dog from a decorated FT lineage can be calm and a great addition to the duck blind and home.
 
Jim, I had very good luck with http://www.southlandkennel.com/. I purchased two black labs from her in the early and mid 80's and both were fantastic retrivers and family dogs.
Owner/breeder is Diana Jagoda. She is a fantastic lady. The kennel is in Virginia and I did the round trip from MA both times without any problems.
As for picking a pup, I wouldn't just pick one blindly. Take the time to ask Diana alot of questions and be sure to fill her in re your brother and his family and what they are looking for. Like all litters there are individuals that need an experienced handler/trainer and others that are more laid back and mellow. My first guy was intense, needed alot of attention, but was smart as a whip. He was one of the dominant littermates. My second was from the same parents but at my wife's request a bit mellower. He too was a very quick learner but was less needy in the house and enjoyed hanging with my three youngsters more than #1.
I run chessie's now and wouldn't recommend them too a novice handler let alone a novice family.
Best of luck
Paul
 
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Check out Retriever Training Forum classifieds: http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31

You should be able to find him a good pup there.

Tom
 
Have him contact local area AKC Hunt Test groups or UKC Hunting Retriever clubs. Many of these people are hunters running good field stock as neither demands the high power field trial retriever stock, but yet they breed for intelligence and ability.
 
Jim,

I would be happy to help you. I run my dogs in hunt tests throughout NE and Canada, and have trained a dog to GRHRCH. If you pm me an email address, I will connect you with a number of people in MA that could steer you to appropriate breeders throughout NE. Also, if you pm a phone #, I'm happy to call you and talk. Also, you could contact Buck Shope at Swift River Retrievers in Orange, MA. Just google Swift River Retrievers. Buck is one of the top pro trainers in NE, and would be a great resource. You could also contact the Yankee Waterfowler's Hunting Retriever Club. They have many members in MA who would be happy to help you. You mentioned that your brother might be more interested in a breeding that is not as high-drive as a pure field lab breeding. If so, you could contact Nancy Brandow at Cedarwood Kennels in ME. She breeds show labs that perform in the field. Listing of field lab litters can be found on Retriever Training Forum, the Hunting Retriever Club forum and Working Retriever Central. Good luck and let me know if I can help further.

Dick
 
Also, as Ron Schuna indicated, Lean Mac was a tremendous champion. His accomplishments are such, that he will forever hold a highly respected place in the history of Labs. As a result, he sired many litters, most of which produced excellent hunting retrievers, as well as many new champions. Lean Mac sired 2003 National Field Champion, Five Star General Patton. Patton is the sire of my HRCH Puma. Puma is a highly biddable dog with great training attitude. Most importantly she is explosive off the line while being a true pleasure to hunt with because she is so steady. I believe there is no better hunting companion than a well bred field lab,.....but they are not for the average owner who does not have the time and knowledge to train them, or the money to purchase the training.
 
Jim it's a bit of distance from ya, but my lab& I know of several others come from thr kellog kennels in SD. Mayo Kellog has a line of pointing labs for more than 75 years. All of them I'v known are lay back pointing& retreveig fools that make a great house/family pet too! Just a thought for ya.
Dennis
 
All:

Thank you VERY much for all the information. I will be speaking with my brother over the weekend and see what he wants to do. I will contact many of you if he is committed to getting a dog. All the information is very helpful. The Toller idea is another good thought.

Regarding Ebonstar Lean Mac puppies... My dog Holly is now 9. She is and has been the best hunting dog I have ever owned or hunted with. I have several stories of people wanting to go hunting with me... not because they wanted to hunt with ME but they wanted me to bring HOLLY. Last season she continued to excel and even at 9 years old not showing many signs of slowing down (although I am watching her closely). We train every day, run at least 2 miles, and in the summer she swims laps in our pool (by herself) for about 2 hours every day. She is in great shape. I will say that she definetly needs the excercise and training to stay mentally occupied and let out her energy. She is great in the house, since she is well trained, but she would not be a good "house pet" without doing the things she loves to do.

Also, I cannot believe how many people ask me what kind of dog she is. Then they DO NOT believe me when I say she is a full blooded yellow lab.

I am hopeful that she can continue to hunt and be an active companion for another year or two or more!

Thanks again

Jim
 
All:

Thank you VERY much for all the information. I will be speaking with my brother over the weekend and see what he wants to do. I will contact many of you if he is committed to getting a dog. All the information is very helpful. The Toller idea is another good thought.

Regarding Ebonstar Lean Mac puppies... My dog Holly is now 9. She is and has been the best hunting dog I have ever owned or hunted with. I have several stories of people wanting to go hunting with me... not because they wanted to hunt with ME but they wanted me to bring HOLLY. Last season she continued to excel and even at 9 years old not showing many signs of slowing down (although I am watching her closely). We train every day, run at least 2 miles, and in the summer she swims laps in our pool (by herself) for about 2 hours every day. She is in great shape. I will say that she definetly needs the excercise and training to stay mentally occupied and let out her energy. She is great in the house, since she is well trained, but she would not be a good "house pet" without doing the things she loves to do.

Also, I cannot believe how many people ask me what kind of dog she is. Then they DO NOT believe me when I say she is a full blooded yellow lab.

I am hopeful that she can continue to hunt and be an active companion for another year or two or more!

Thanks again

Jim
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Jim, post up some pictures of your girl here, now that we are all excited about her. I agree with your approach that you detailed above. My "Pete" has a similar breeding and I agree that he is too much dog for a kid and a non dog family.

I also get the "what kind of dog question" from people, funny that you say that.
 
You might want to look into English labradors. They aren't supposed to be as "intense" as the field trial dogs.

This "famous" guy even has them in "canoe size"

http://www.duckhillkennels.com/

What you want to avoid are the so-called "sausage" labradors....ie...show dog stock, with stumpy legs.
 
A field trial dog is a product of training, not the breed. Any lab from hunting lines would do fine, even a golden. I would steer towards a female though...they tend to be less dominant and hard headed.
 
Size is also important. I'm not a huge fan of big labs. I like a gun dog that is around 60-70lbs full grown.
 
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