Wyatt Russo
Member
In the market for a duck dog specifically a lab. Anybody on here a breeder or know of a reputable breeder in the northeast?
Duck dog
- Thread starter Wyatt Russo
- Start date
Not in the NE so would be a drive for pick-up, but I got my lab at Wildrose Carolinas. Smaller British labs (50-60 lb range), which I wanted. I went and trained with them and their other dogs a lot for about 7 months, and still go up with my dog (2 yo) every 4-6 weeks. Have been very impressed with their dogs - great temperament and good drive - and with the people.
Noah Shaver
Member
I would do your homework on Pedigrees and Kennels. Lots of boutique breeders out there today breeding with no concern of the standard of the breed. Hunting Lab Pedigree is a great place to find litters and study pedigrees. I ended up driving from NC to Iowa to get my pup, and she was worth every mile. The biggest thing is health testing. You want to see a panel of genetic testing and hips, eyes, and elbows on both parents. It blows my mind people buy a pup for big money without seeing this.
Looks like some great litters on there right now:
Looks like some great litters on there right now:
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Agree completely on health testing, and I'd add meeting the parent dogs and seeing them work as the ideal. Good lab pups have gotten too expensive not to do so, in my opinion. And selecting a breeder that will take a pup back if it has such health issues or just isnt the right fit. Good ones will happily do this before having one of their line in a bad situation and causing a bad reputation.I would do your homework on Pedigrees and Kennels. Lots of boutique breeders out there today breeding with no concern of the standard of the breed. Hunting Lab Pedigree is a great place to find litters and study pedigrees. I ended up driving from NC to Iowa to get my pup, and she was worth every mile. The biggest thing is health testing. You want to see a panel of genetic testing and hips, eyes, and elbows on both parents. It blows my mind people buy a pup for big money without seeing this.
Looks like some great litters on there right now:
Pedigree, in my opinion, is a little less value - other than seeing health clearances back multiple generations - unless you know you want a Field Trial or Hunt Test pedigree. It has some value, but I value seeing the parents and, if possible, dogs out of previous litters more.
Iowa is not very close, but I'd still recommend Kyle Danna owner of Echo Kennels.
Echo Kennels
Echo Kennels. 1,166 likes · 56 talking about this. We raise Small Munsterlanders and Labradors
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patrick mccarthy
Well-known member
Breeding Pairs - Peak Performance Dog Training
peakperformancetraining.info
Noah Shaver
Member
Breeding Pairs - Peak Performance Dog Training
I looked at the site and saw them breeding all those junior hunters, which threw up a red flag, then I searched them on google and found this:
These are the types of kennels that I would avoid. There is no point in breeding a bunch of junior hunters other than to make a dollar.
Clinton John
Active member
I don't know of any breeders up that way mainly because Im in Louisiana.
Here is my advice.
Buy the book water dog and follow it to the letter. Have used that training manual for ever dog I have owned, works great and makes a amazing dog.
Always pick a female. Never a male. Males are hard headed, females train easier and quicker( they are more apt to please their master over a male)
I like to pick the smallest of the females. I like a small light weight dog in my boat. Helps when hunting soft mud, they don't get tired as fast and less apt too need to be retrieved from getting in a bind.
You don't need a show trail dog. A dog from a good hunting line both on the father and mothers side will do fine.
Hope this helps.
Here is my advice.
Buy the book water dog and follow it to the letter. Have used that training manual for ever dog I have owned, works great and makes a amazing dog.
Always pick a female. Never a male. Males are hard headed, females train easier and quicker( they are more apt to please their master over a male)
I like to pick the smallest of the females. I like a small light weight dog in my boat. Helps when hunting soft mud, they don't get tired as fast and less apt too need to be retrieved from getting in a bind.
You don't need a show trail dog. A dog from a good hunting line both on the father and mothers side will do fine.
Hope this helps.
I realize Dave was only joking, but don't overlook the versatile breeds. Klein Meunsterlander and German Wirehair Pointers for example are excellent duck gunning dogs with a drive second to none. Beware of showdog bloodlines in any breed. RMYou will just have to overlook the fact that he also raises Small Munsterlanders.
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Clinton John
Active member
I know I guy that trained and hunted over a Jack Russell terrier for a duck dog.
Was a dang good dog too.
Hey Mark Twain once said, " It's not like size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
Clinton John
Active member
Agreed. That's why I like my female labs too max out around 50lbs.
Lance Evans
New member
Not trying to start an argument here, just offer a different perspective.
Water Dog was written in 1964, before e-collars were around in the form we have today. Many have used it to train fine dogs, but I think any training method that leaves out the biggest advance in dog training is probably lacking.
As far as the sex of the dog, more males win field trials (both amateur and open) than females, more males qualify for and pass the master national, and more finalists for the National Retriever Championships are male.
I agree 100% that not everyone needs a field trial dog to have a good hunting partner, but it definitely shows that that males aren’t more difficult to train than females or nobody would ever run a male.
For what it’s worth, I will always have a male. My best dogs have all been males and they have been great dogs.
Clinton John
Active member
Have never once in my life needed a "shock collar".
To me if you have to have that means one of two things.
Your dog is a stubborn male or you s@#$ at training a dog and don't have the mental aptitude for it or a severe lack of patience.
You know why more male dogs win the "show games"? Because more of them or used them females and because they fetch higher stud prices.
No argument, just facts.
Lance Evans
New member
You’re saying all the most successful trainers in the world suck at training? Because they all use ecollars. Sounds to me like you’re trying to start an argument without having any idea what you’re talking about.
And I know plenty of males not used for stud that win big. Just you’ve seen one thing in your limited experience doesn’t make it universally true.
Let's avoid the vitriol that can come with the e-collar debate. I used e-collars to train my first couple dogs, but not my current dog. They definitely are of value, particularly if training speed is an issue - or if a dog is independent enough to require it and hard enough to handle it . There have been moments in my current training I knew I could resolve an issue much more quickly and clearly with a collar, but being retired and with only 1 dog to train (and no timeline, like a hunt or trial or test looming that I just felt I had to make), I trusted that patience and consistency would get her where she needed to be - and it has. I'm certainly a better trainer for having done it this way (because it's different, not because it's inherently better).
IMO, the collar question really hinges on what you want a dog for and how you want to train (and in what time period) - and should tie directly to where you get your dog. If you are interested in trialing, get a dog from a trial pedigree and expect to use a collar - in my opinion, it is nearly impossible to get field trial level precision without the ability to correct from a distance, and most dogs bred for field trials have so much piss and vinegar they need a firm hand.
If you just want a dog to hunt and otherwise be a good house/family companion, find a kennel that is breeding and training hunting retrievers that they also keep at home. British lab kennels seem to specialize in this, but there are American lab kennels that do the same. E-collars will be much less valuable for these dogs and in these situations, and as they are often softer can be harmful if used incorrectly.
If you want to hunt test, too, a collar may become more beneficial the further you want to go - or if by luck you just happen to get a fire-breather from.
The best advice I got was know what you want first, pick a kennel second (based on talking to the owners about what you want and ensuring that is their primary focus), a bitch third, and a sire last. Then let the owner/trainer pick up pup out of the litter. I struggle with the last bit, but actually think it is good advice.
I love the Wolters books, always have. "Modern" trainers poo-poo them regularly, and I do think it came out subsequently that he didn't actually train his dogs, but wrote about what his trainers did. That said, I still think there is a lot of good stuff there. I found a lot of parallels to Mike Stewart's Wildrose training book (which I also really like, and is a little more hands-on). Bill Hillman and Mike Lardy are others I've found influential and valuable.
IMO, the collar question really hinges on what you want a dog for and how you want to train (and in what time period) - and should tie directly to where you get your dog. If you are interested in trialing, get a dog from a trial pedigree and expect to use a collar - in my opinion, it is nearly impossible to get field trial level precision without the ability to correct from a distance, and most dogs bred for field trials have so much piss and vinegar they need a firm hand.
If you just want a dog to hunt and otherwise be a good house/family companion, find a kennel that is breeding and training hunting retrievers that they also keep at home. British lab kennels seem to specialize in this, but there are American lab kennels that do the same. E-collars will be much less valuable for these dogs and in these situations, and as they are often softer can be harmful if used incorrectly.
If you want to hunt test, too, a collar may become more beneficial the further you want to go - or if by luck you just happen to get a fire-breather from.
The best advice I got was know what you want first, pick a kennel second (based on talking to the owners about what you want and ensuring that is their primary focus), a bitch third, and a sire last. Then let the owner/trainer pick up pup out of the litter. I struggle with the last bit, but actually think it is good advice.
I love the Wolters books, always have. "Modern" trainers poo-poo them regularly, and I do think it came out subsequently that he didn't actually train his dogs, but wrote about what his trainers did. That said, I still think there is a lot of good stuff there. I found a lot of parallels to Mike Stewart's Wildrose training book (which I also really like, and is a little more hands-on). Bill Hillman and Mike Lardy are others I've found influential and valuable.
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Agree on civil, but I think knowing how you plan to use and train a dog is critical to deciding where to get a pup. If I knew for certain I wanted to train without an e-collar I'd eliminate a lot of kennels from my potential list, and the inverse is true, too.
Tim Clark
New member
There’s so much variation in the breed that I think it’s important to ask what you’re looking for. What are some of the traits that you’re looking for? Energy level? Size? Are you just going to hunt with the dog, or do you also intend to do hunt tests and try to title?
Hello. I'm not familiar with this kennel, but I am familiar with the "Wildrose" name. Are they an off-shoot of the original Wildrose and/or Duckhill that Mr Robert Milner runs?
I have had 2 of Mr Milners British Labs. My first one (Cullen) was likely the best dog I will ever own. He was my ride-or-die, and a duck retrieving machine. I miss that dog daily. My second (Penny, Cullen's 2nd cousin), is an obese, half-retarded oaf couch-potato who will only retrieve a dog biscuit.
We love her, but bless her heart, something isn't right about her.