G&H decoy paint

I'm constantly told "you're high we're going with GHG trailers. They aren't as good as your's but they're cheaper and thats GOOD ENOUGH"...If given the opportunity to "review spec's" I can lomost invariabley get my price down to a competitive, dollar vs. dollar comparison but all that i really did was take away what made my trailer "better" because I 'dumbed it down" with componants that will wear out twice as fast and need to be replaced sooner....

Sort of like admitting that the GHG decoy isn't going to hold paint, won't last as long, are cheaper, and that they are GOOD ENOUGH all the while knowing that you are trading "value" for "out of the box cosmetics"...."cosmetics" that will be gone well before the life of the BETTER item....

Amazing what people will accept in the name of "looks good new"...


Steve
 
I USED to get a kick out of people that bought "the package" at the big box cause "they beat you by a hundred"..then they come in to get the 150-200 dollars worth of stuff to finish the job..the stuff we had in "our" price. Reminds me of the line in "Tommy Boy"..." I can take a dump in a box and guarantee it if all you want is a guarantee". A "price" educated consumer is an idiot.
 
I don't hunt over GHG dekes because it bugs the hell out of me that they are made in China. I can only wonder what the poor bastard who is getting paid five bucks a day is thinking as he slaps the cheap paint on a GHG mallard. I will admit that they look good but the ones I've seen after a couple of seasons of use are losing their paint. Like fishing lures, I think they are made to "catch" consumers, not ducks. I mean, we're hunting a critter with a tiny brain that would decoy to a bunch of 2 liter pop bottles if you are set up in the right place. I like the durability of my G&H dekes and I like that they are made by Americans. I also have some of Tom Tshabold's dekes....more Amercian made quality.
Unfortunately for G&H (and guys like Tom), plenty of guys I know have told me, "sure the paint on the GHG dekes suck, but they are so cheap I will just buy more when they wear out."
By the way, I like the hot dog vendor parable.
 
For 8 years I ran my own business - fixing broken businesses as interim CEO/COO. The fix, no matter what the industry, was always the same. 1) lack of leadership & trying now methods to serve customers and train employees with new skills, and, 2) a reliance on the old excuse We can't compete with China?

So, here's what I did... I would interview customers, especially customers who fired us (my client) and ask them what was important to them from a supplier perspective... they ALWAYS said 1) knowledge of product, 2) service after the sale, 3) blah, 4) blah, 5) blah............8) PRICE.

Then, I would interview my client's employees - and ask the same question. What do you think is important to your clients? the number 1 answer .... 1) PRICE... Wrong !! a completely upside down perspective. Customers are speaking Italian, my client's people were speaking Norwegian.

Totally supports the hot dog example...

Lee, I only go to Home Crappo only when my favorite lumber yard is closed on Sundays. The service I get from the local lumber yard is awesome. They saved me from a lot of mistakes --- so, don't lose faith. Retail customers may complain about price, but who is ever going to look you in the eye and say - you didn't help me out on that project 4 months ago. They don't have to, they come in, that's the return hook.

I've been to China, I've seen their factories, their managers, I've see their goods, and guess what, it's pretty good and getting better. BUT, you cannot serve your customers from a jillion miles away.

Change the model, focus on what you do best (that's why God invented distributorships) serve the customers, offer them service and value, manufacturing should be secondary. Buy product cheaper from China if you have to, and invest the savings into your employees, and have your employees invest in your customers and more customers. Scale the business so that you don't have to lay off.

Some manufacturing like Ethan Allen is doomed. All of us who have built wooden boats know that. How much is our labor worth? I spent 600 hours on my $5,000 boat. If I were any good, I would have spent 200 hours on my $5,000 boat. Oh yes, I spent $3,500 on materials. If I were to start a boat building business, I need to charge $12,000 for my $5,000 boat. Take this stupid example into many manufacturing businesses and... well you know what I mean...

Off my soapbox --- good post-season post.
 
"There is hardly anything in the world that someone
cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper,
and the people that consider price alone are this man's
lawful prey"
this is a quote attributed to John Ruskin from the late 19th century.
Click to expand...


Damn, Lee, I like that one!! - it's going on the wall in the shop.

I listened to a show with a guy named Chalmers Johnson who's written a book called: Nemisis, the last days of the American Republic. He talked alot about concerns over how China and Japan have taken over our former role as a world leader in quality manufacturing and how the huge debts we've accumulated could result in a meltdown that their manufacturing economy might recover from - but not ours. Another guest made the observation that they would never allow that to happen because we're the ones they depend on to buy all the stuff they produce and which we have become so enamored of. Scary thoughts. I might pick up a copy of his book.
 
Precisely Bob, the American consumer drives the worlds economy.As the wages fall here because of everyone wanting cheap..and that's about the only way to have "cheap"...the Asian economy will tumble.

Andrew, I've seen the studies where 30% want low price, 60% want value,quality and service, 10% want to pay the highest price they can find to brag to their peers.I've seen the figures you cited on customer polls also. I think a lot of people , when they fill out these questinaires, want 100 dollar quality and service and blah, blah, blah..for 20 bucks...but subconciously put price near the bottom because they don't want to call themselves cheap..or in a face to face..have the interviewer think them cheap. Wally World didn't get to where they are by Knock Their Socks Off Service..they did it on the perception of having the lowest price..then when they got big enough, they strongarm suppliers to lower prices which eventually ..like Steve said...dumbs down their products. Example, a Delta bath faucet from me will run about a hundred bucks for a nice one..the "same" from Menards may be 30-50...boy..they look the same..wonder why the one from me weighs 6lbs and the one from Maynerds weighs a pound and a half? Could be, the all metal construction with copper innards compared to chrome plastic and poly innards..but there the "same" number? Except for an M or something in the bar code that specifies it was made to specs for the box store..crap, now I won't be able to sleep for another hour or so! Parachuting off my soapbox now....
 
When I was 17 I worked part time in a service station pumping gas. My employer was a very independent mechanic. He had a sign in his service station that read.

Quality is like buying oats if your satisfied with what's come though the horse that comes a little cheaper.

In a town of about Ten thousand we had about twenty mechanics. There were three real good ones. Curly was one of the three. I did oil changes ,cleaned cars , etc. Curly did the mechanical work. One of the car we serviced belonged to a doctor but he never came in to the station. I noticed that the doctor would stop about a block away and one of his family members would drive the car up to the station and leave it and then he would pick them up. I asked Curly why. Curly said the doctor had been doing that for about three years now. Ever since one day the doctor had said to Curly how to fix something and Curly said to the doctor I don't tell you how to sew fingers don't tell me how to fix cars. Curly always did quality work and never did more to a car than had to be done. I guess the doctor knew that and that Curly would never rip him off. Curly wasn't the cheapest but did quality work.

I worked for a wholesaler in my twenties and at one of the sales meetings. One or two of the sales men were complaining that our prices weren't competitive. Our owner stated very clearly that he wasn't in the business to trade dollars and our job was to provide service and dependability. He was a man who started out with nothing and ended a muti-millionaire. One day we were told to sell some case's of product that had been in the back of the warehouse for a few years for cost, just get rid of it. I tried selling it for cost, no takers. I doubled the price, sold it all. Go figure
 
Lee,

My last client, before my startup, was a manufacturer of plastic injection moulded products. They were losing their shirts because the cost of resin skyrocketed (this was about 3 years ago). Their biggest customer? A big retailer based in Arkansas that begins with "W".

I said raise prices, customer said - we can't - our customer is W. I devised a plan that basically said this: Here's what we can offer you: 1) quality, 2) customer service, and, 3) price --- now W - you choose any 2 of the three you want, but you can't have all 3.

We achieved 4 price increases and finally turned a profit and covered our costs. The moral of the story, even W isn't stupid. They want the lowest prices possible, but if my customer couldn't deliver the plastic products on time to all of their DC's (Distribution Centers), W was out of luck.

You're right Lee, people subconsciously know, even W, that price isn't the only index that's important.

Ok, enough of that... what is the world's Biggest Duck? Where is Thomas when we need him?
 
What was this thread supposed to be about? Oh yeah..paint for G&H decoys..heh heh heh..Get ahold of Lou and get some FME (Fu**ing Miracle Enamel) That stuff is the best paint for anything in the water or taking a beating...just super clean your dekes cause it will stick to dirt and dirt will pop off the deke.
 
Guys ,

It is so funny to see this post here today , i just returned from a meeting with a new customer this morning who has approached me and bassically said " we want to take ALL of our manufacturing out of China and bring it back home !" The 1st thing i did was to congratulate then i accepted all there tooling work to repalce the tooling that will not be coming here from China . Andrew, huge score for Morton Precision Tool . After talking with the customer the difference in price for having the work done overseas as opposed to here in the USA was minimal , plus the delivery schedule was more realistic as well as having total control of the processes to produce his product . The bottom line is you get what you pay for , not to say that all products from over seas are not good but just look at the tag on most of the products you purchase today and that will tell you the story . Sorry for the bussiness post but i cannot help myself when i see products here being knocked off with lesser quality somewhere else .


By the way my good friend Andrew taught me how to pontifacate ( Spelling?)


Dave m
 
Congradulations Dave, on the new business.

There a saying I heard or read it somewhere
The grass is greener and bigger on the other side of the fence and so is the water bill.
 
Hold on Lee! You're taking my statement out of context:

"Something Bdaves said that proves the US consumer is spending themselves out of a job.."They aren't as good but good enough"...

Noway did I say that GHG "aren't as good but good enough"! I said the durability isn't quite as good, but the look is so far superior that I will take a little less durability for better looks. I switchd from using several dozen self-made corks back to plastics because I was so impressed with the looks of GHG dekes. They were, and still are, the only plastic dekes worthy of replacing corks in my spread. As soon as G&H makes a decoy that LOOKS as good as my corks or GHG dekes, then I might consider them again, until then adios.

P.S.- G&H aren't perfect in the durability dept either. Had 2 doz goose floaters that broke the heads off at the neck joints several years ago. So much for their "durability". The only problem I've had with GHG is that the keels are a PITA to install, and I've had some very minor paint loss on bills and tails. I hunt a lot and I'm rough on my gear so these decoys have seen over 100 hunts and get bagged together and thrown in boat, so I'm hapy with how they've held up.
 
While we are talking about outsourced decoys, I've noticed that Sportplast, the Italian decoy maker, which I believe is marketed as Carrylite in the US, is now making some of their decoys in Mexico. While Carrylites were never a top of the line decoy, the Mexican made models are truly a POS....very thin plastic with crappy paint.
 
Hey everybody. Just to be sure, I think my paint question has been answered. I will continue to buy American made decoys and suggest that if if you have to buy a plastic decoy, then G&H has good history with no complaints from me. this fall I will use some of the snow goose decoys to attempt my 2 swan limit in Fallon Nevada at the Humboldt sink. Incidentally, it was near this area where the oldest duck decoys were found. (Tule reed Cans at the Lovelock cave. ) Have fun with all these posts, I never expected so much feed back.
Memphis john
 
" I agree their durability isn't equal to G&H, but it's good enough for me."


Sorry Brett..I think it's Brett isn't it? I didn't know how to
copy paste what you wrote in your original post..didn't mean to take it
out of context. I agree with you on the looks of the GHG deke paint
job..best looking Blackduck and Wigeon plastic deke I have seen..just
won't buy them. I hate the fact that it's getting almost impossible to
"Buy American" anymore...hell..the most American car out there is the
Toyota.
 
No problem, Lee. Yep, it's Bret.

My favorite quote is "quality is remembered long after price is forgotten". Likewise, if the quality doesn't hold up until after the price is forgotten, somebody's gonna feel screwed. So far I feel far from being screwed by my purchase of over 12 dozen GHG decoys. But "quality" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I don't look for the same features in "quality" with decoys as I look for in a gun, or a boat, or a truck, or a jacket. They all have their own unique set of features that make up "quality".

I have found the ongoing debate over GHG decoys to be extremely interesting. This is the first time I can recall that the waterfowling community has so feverishly taken sides over two competing brands, especially when it comes to decoys. What's funny to me is the same guys that won't buy GHG because they are made in China have been buying a lot of other things that are made in China for years. Not sure why they are drawing the line in the sand over decoys.

It used to be considered that anything made in China was of absolute inferior quality. I think their clothing manufacturing has proved that wrong (try buying clothes that AREN'T made in China-other than Carhartt and a few other American brands like Levis-it's pretty difficult), and their other products are quickly catching up to the quality of items produced most anywhere. I know this is bad news for the American manufacturing community, but it's the way it is.

I'll go so far as to rate the OVERALL quality of GHG decoys as superior to G&H. Taking into consideration realism, paint colors/application, plastic durability, paint durability, etc. I'd rate GHG about a 9 out of 10 and G&H about an 8 out of 10. Obviously GHG has it all over G&H in terms of realism and paint colors/application. I'd rate them about equal in terms of plastic durability, and of course G&H beats GHG for paint durability. For me, realism and pretty paint matter more than paint durability (you need to repaint any decoys after several years, I'd rather just buy new), so I think the quality of GHG surpasses G&H for my needs. And for me this isn't at all a price war preference. In fact, I mostly buy the GHG oversized dekes which are around $100 dozen. Which although it is competitive in the decoy marketplace, I wouldn't call them "cheap" either. I just buy what I like, if it saves me a little money, so much the better.
 
It seems interesting to me that some of the guys debating this issue are big time carvers. The real question is how many have bought decoys over the last two to three years? What kind did you buy? I'm even up! I've bought three dozen GHG decoys, two dozen blue bills and one dozen widgon two years ago. I've bought 3 dozen G&H decoys in the last two years. I bought a dozen mallards and two dozen divers, a dozen each cans and redheads.

As I sit here and think about the decoys I'm realizing that the G&H got most of the hunting time on the water last hunting season. On the short term side the cost of GHG is less, but the durability is not. The G&H look good and last longer. I think that is why I used them more.

Tight Lines ... Fred
 
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