Hevi shot ammo Changed?

LI-Jack

LI-Jack

Active member
Has anyone noticed that Hevi shot ammo changed its box information?

I don't usually shoot the stuff but at times I find it needed for pass shooting and the boxes I have (which are about 3 years old) say "denser than lead"

Now, I take a trip to a local Sports authority to look for clearance sales (none found) but I by a box and when I get home I notice that they changed their box and on the box it says "denser than steel"

Now I thinking how is this stuff compared to the "denser than lead" stuff?

Don't get me wrong, I'll still shoot steel #7's through #4's at ten yards, but what bugs me is when did this product change? I feel it's a misrepresentation, but when I look on the web, it still says "denser than lead?"

Any one else notice this? It's not the Hevi steel product, it is hevi-shot.

-Jack
 
Jack, they have about 4 different densities now. I think the one they call "duck" is somewhere between steel and lead and the one they call "goose" is a bit heavier than lead. It used to be called Hevi Shot 13. I think the "turkey" is around 18. I agree, it is a rip and I've read some posts on Shotgun World where guys were pretty pissed. I used some "heavy steel" Remington out at Suttons on sea ducks and was mildly impressed...I was going to buy another case for the following year and they doubled the price..screw that.
 
That's exactly what I bought, #2 duck.

I'm very dissappointed with the switch in advertisement. I didn't mind spending the extra cabbage for the "denser than lead" stuff but I feel a bit "violated" when I did the comparison.

I was impressed with the "denser than lead" stuff 13g/cc killer at 50 yds, never even twitched when they hit the water.

I Really need to pay attention to those details.

-Jack
 
How many shells in the box? Maybe it was one of the 25 shell boxes of hevi-Steel "Son of hevi shot" that you grabbed.
 
Nope, 10 shells per box--- "hevi shot" and on the bottom of the box it said "heavier than steel"

The old boxs ( which I have ) says "heavier than Lead"

Engineer through and through-- just slipped past me as a overlooked detail
 
Personally I don't like the loads that Environmetal (HS) manufactures, I prefer the older ones that Remington produced for them. So when I am not able to find that anymore and run out of it, I'll buy the Remington HD stuff, as it is closer to the original Hevishot loads I would say and I don't think they have been messing around with different densities of the shot (advertised as 12.0 g/cc), plus I like the wads and loads better.

As a side note, I'd still like to see a documented case of a bird dying because they ingested a lead pellet. I could be wrong, but I've never seen nor heard of it.

Back on topic... carry on.
 
I think (but am not sure) that you may have it backwards. They manufactured shot for Remington. As a supplier of shot they probably only made a couple of bucks on that $30 box of shells. I suspect the licensing deal ran out and Environmetal decided that they needed to vertically integrate to get a bigger piece of the pie.

Also, while I don't have it in front of me, I am certain I've read documented evidence of toxicology reports on loons that died from lead ingestion.

Look here for some potential references for lead toxicity in ducks if you want to read about it - http://www.springerlink.com/content/w71457wm882512u2/
 
Last edited:
Personally I don't like the loads that Environmetal (HS) manufactures, I prefer the older ones that Remington produced for them. So when I am not able to find that anymore and run out of it, I'll buy the Remington HD stuff, as it is closer to the original Hevishot loads I would say and I don't think they have been messing around with different densities of the shot (advertised as 12.0 g/cc), plus I like the wads and loads better.

As a side note, I'd still like to see a documented case of a bird dying because they ingested a lead pellet. I could be wrong, but I've never seen nor heard of it.

Back on topic... carry on.
Click to expand...

Dan,

Never heard of a documented case of a bird dying after ingesting a lead pellet?!?! Have you looked for this information? Do you doubt the toxicity of lead or doubt birds ingest it?

Maybe you shold take a trip to your local university science library and do some reading. Here are some ideas where to start.

T


. Demendi, M; Petrie, SA Shot ingestion in scaup on the lower Great Lakes after nontoxic shot regulations in Canada
WILDLIFE SOCIETY BULLETIN, 34 (4): 1101-1106 NOV 2006

2. Svanberg, F; Mateo, R; Hillstrom, L; et al. Lead isotopes and lead shot ingestion in the globally threatened marbled teal (Marmaronetta angustirostris) and white-headed duck (Oxyura leucocephala)
SCIENCE OF THE TOTAL ENVIRONMENT, 370 (2-3): 416-424 NOV 1 2006

3. Degernes, L; Heilman, S; Trogdon, M; et al. Epidemiologic investigation of lead poisoning in trumpeter and tundra swans in Washington State, USA, 2000-2002
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE DISEASES, 42 (2): 345-358 APR 2006

4. Figuerola, J; Mateo, R; Green, AJ; et al. Grit selection in waterfowl and how it determines exposure to ingested lead shot in Mediterranean wetlands
ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION, 32 (3): 226-234 SEP 2005

5. Merendino, MT; Lobpries, DS; Neaville, JE; et al. Regional differences and long-term trends in lead exposure in mottled ducks
WILDLIFE SOCIETY BULLETIN, 33 (3): 1002-1008 FAL 2005

6. Nakade, T; Tomura, Y; Jin, K; et al. Lead poisoning in whooper and tundra swans
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE DISEASES, 41 (1): 253-256 JAN 2005

7. Levengood, JM Cadmium and lead in tissues of Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) and Wood Ducks (Aix sponsa) using the Illinois River (USA)
ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTION, 122 (2): 177-181 2003

8. Mateo, R; Guitart, R Heavy metals in livers of waterbirds from Spain
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 44 (3): 398-404 APR 2003

9. De Francisco, N; Troya, JDR; Aguera, EI Lead and lead toxicity in domestic and free living birds
AVIAN PATHOLOGY, 32 (1): 3-13 FEB 2003

10. Guitart, R; Serratosa, J; Thomas, VG Lead-poisoned wildfowl in Spain: a significant threat for human consumers
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH RESEARCH, 12 (4): 301-309 DEC 2002
11. Degernes, L; Kittelson, S; Linck, M; et al. Survival and reproductive success of trumpeter swans after treatment for lead poisoning
WATERBIRDS, 25: 368-374 Suppl. 1 2002

12. Tavecchia, G; Pradel, R; Lebreton, JD; et al. The effect of lead exposure on survival of adult mallards in the Camargue, southern France
JOURNAL OF APPLIED ECOLOGY, 38 (6): 1197-1207 DEC 2001

13. Mateo, R; Green, AJ; Jeske, CW; et al. Lead poisoning in the globally threatened marbled teal and white-headed duck in spain
ENVIRONMENTAL TOXICOLOGY AND CHEMISTRY, 20 (12): 2860-2868 DEC 2001

14. Sileo, L; Creekmore, LH; Audet, DJ; et al. Lead poisoning of waterfowl by contaminated sediment in the Coeur d'Alene River
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 41 (3): 364-368 OCT 2001

15. Anderson, WL; Havera, SP; Zercher, BW Ingestion of lead and nontoxic shotgun pellets by ducks in the Mississippi Flyway
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT, 64 (3): 848-857 JUL 2000

16. Henny, CJ; Blus, LJ; Hoffman, DJ; et al. Field evaluation of lead effects on Canada geese and mallards in the Coeur d'Alene River Basin, Idaho
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 39 (1): 97-112 JUL 2000

17. Ochial, K; Kimura, T; Uematsu, K; et al. Lead poisoning in wild waterfowl in Japan
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE DISEASES, 35 (4): 766-769 OCT 1999

18. Beyer, WN; Franson, JC; Locke, LN; et al. Retrospective study of the diagnostic criteria in a lead-poisoning survey of waterfowl
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 35 (3): 506-512 OCT 1998

19. Thomas, VG The environmental and ethical implications of lead shot contamination of rural lands in north America
JOURNAL OF AGRICULTURAL & ENVIRONMENTAL ETHICS, 10 (1): 41-54 1997

20. Mateo, R; Belliure, J; Dolz, JC; et al. High prevalences of lead poisoning in wintering waterfowl in Spain
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 35 (2): 342-347 AUG 1998

21. Franson, JC; Petersen, MR; Creekmore, LH; et al. Blood lead concentrations of spectacled eiders near the Kashunuk river, Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska
ECOTOXICOLOGY, 7 (3): 175-181 JUN 1998

22. Moore, JL; Hohman, WL; Stark, TM; et al. Shot prevalences and diets of diving ducks five years after ban on use of lead shotshells at Catahoula Lake, Louisiana
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT, 62 (2): 564-569 APR 1998

23. Kendall, RJ; Lacher, TE; Bunck, C; et al. An ecological risk assessment of lead shot exposure in non-waterfowl avian species: Upland game birds and raptors
ENVIRONMENTAL TOXICOLOGY AND CHEMISTRY, 15 (1): 4-20 JAN 1996

24. Scheuhammer, AM; Dickson, KM Patterns of environmental lead exposure in waterfowl in Eastern Canada
AMBIO, 25 (1): 14-20 FEB 1996

25. SMITH, OL; GOEDE, A; BLACKHALL, SA LEAD CONTAMINATION OF WATERFOWL IN TASMANIA BY INGESTION OF SHOTGUN PELLETS FROM DUCK SHOOTING
WILDLIFE RESEARCH, 22 (5): 611-623 1995

26. DESTEFANO, S; BRAND, CJ; SAMUEL, MD SEASONAL INGESTION OF TOXIC AND NONTOXIC SHOT BY CANADA GEESE
WILDLIFE SOCIETY BULLETIN, 23 (3): 502-506 FAL 1995

27. BLUS, LJ; HENNY, CJ; HOFFMAN, DJ; et al. ACCUMULATION IN AND EFFECTS OF LEAD AND CADMIUM ON WATERFOWL AND PASSERINES IN NORTHERN IDAHO
ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTION, 89 (3): 311-318 1995

28. HOHMAN, WL; MOORE, JL; FRANSON, JC WINTER SURVIVAL OF IMMATURE CANVASBACKS IN INLAND LOUISIANA
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT, 59 (2): 384-392 APR 1995

29. BLUS, LJ A REVIEW OF LEAD-POISONING IN SWANS
COMPARATIVE BIOCHEMISTRY AND PHYSIOLOGY C-PHARMACOLOGY TOXICOLOGY & ENDOCRINOLOGY, 108 (3): 259-267 JUL 1994

30. DAURY, RW; SCHWAB, FE; BATEMAN, MC PREVALENCE OF INGESTED LEAD SHOT IN AMERICAN BLACK DUCK, ANAS RUBRIPES, AND RING-NECKED DUCK, AYTHYA-COLLARIS, GIZZARDS FROM NOVA-SCOTIA AND PRINCE-EDWARD-ISLAND
CANADIAN FIELD-NATURALIST, 108 (1): 26-30 JAN-MAR 1994
etc....
. Demendi, M; Petrie, SA Shot ingestion in scaup on the lower Great Lakes after nontoxic shot regulations in Canada
WILDLIFE SOCIETY BULLETIN, 34 (4): 1101-1106 NOV 2006

2. Svanberg, F; Mateo, R; Hillstrom, L; et al. Lead isotopes and lead shot ingestion in the globally threatened marbled teal (Marmaronetta angustirostris) and white-headed duck (Oxyura leucocephala)
SCIENCE OF THE TOTAL ENVIRONMENT, 370 (2-3): 416-424 NOV 1 2006

3. Degernes, L; Heilman, S; Trogdon, M; et al. Epidemiologic investigation of lead poisoning in trumpeter and tundra swans in Washington State, USA, 2000-2002
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE DISEASES, 42 (2): 345-358 APR 2006

4. Figuerola, J; Mateo, R; Green, AJ; et al. Grit selection in waterfowl and how it determines exposure to ingested lead shot in Mediterranean wetlands
ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION, 32 (3): 226-234 SEP 2005

5. Merendino, MT; Lobpries, DS; Neaville, JE; et al. Regional differences and long-term trends in lead exposure in mottled ducks
WILDLIFE SOCIETY BULLETIN, 33 (3): 1002-1008 FAL 2005

6. Nakade, T; Tomura, Y; Jin, K; et al. Lead poisoning in whooper and tundra swans
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE DISEASES, 41 (1): 253-256 JAN 2005

7. Levengood, JM Cadmium and lead in tissues of Mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) and Wood Ducks (Aix sponsa) using the Illinois River (USA)
ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTION, 122 (2): 177-181 2003

8. Mateo, R; Guitart, R Heavy metals in livers of waterbirds from Spain
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 44 (3): 398-404 APR 2003

9. De Francisco, N; Troya, JDR; Aguera, EI Lead and lead toxicity in domestic and free living birds
AVIAN PATHOLOGY, 32 (1): 3-13 FEB 2003

10. Guitart, R; Serratosa, J; Thomas, VG Lead-poisoned wildfowl in Spain: a significant threat for human consumers
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH RESEARCH, 12 (4): 301-309 DEC 2002
11. Degernes, L; Kittelson, S; Linck, M; et al. Survival and reproductive success of trumpeter swans after treatment for lead poisoning
WATERBIRDS, 25: 368-374 Suppl. 1 2002

12. Tavecchia, G; Pradel, R; Lebreton, JD; et al. The effect of lead exposure on survival of adult mallards in the Camargue, southern France
JOURNAL OF APPLIED ECOLOGY, 38 (6): 1197-1207 DEC 2001

13. Mateo, R; Green, AJ; Jeske, CW; et al. Lead poisoning in the globally threatened marbled teal and white-headed duck in spain
ENVIRONMENTAL TOXICOLOGY AND CHEMISTRY, 20 (12): 2860-2868 DEC 2001

14. Sileo, L; Creekmore, LH; Audet, DJ; et al. Lead poisoning of waterfowl by contaminated sediment in the Coeur d'Alene River
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 41 (3): 364-368 OCT 2001

15. Anderson, WL; Havera, SP; Zercher, BW Ingestion of lead and nontoxic shotgun pellets by ducks in the Mississippi Flyway
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT, 64 (3): 848-857 JUL 2000

16. Henny, CJ; Blus, LJ; Hoffman, DJ; et al. Field evaluation of lead effects on Canada geese and mallards in the Coeur d'Alene River Basin, Idaho
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 39 (1): 97-112 JUL 2000

17. Ochial, K; Kimura, T; Uematsu, K; et al. Lead poisoning in wild waterfowl in Japan
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE DISEASES, 35 (4): 766-769 OCT 1999

18. Beyer, WN; Franson, JC; Locke, LN; et al. Retrospective study of the diagnostic criteria in a lead-poisoning survey of waterfowl
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 35 (3): 506-512 OCT 1998

19. Thomas, VG The environmental and ethical implications of lead shot contamination of rural lands in north America
JOURNAL OF AGRICULTURAL & ENVIRONMENTAL ETHICS, 10 (1): 41-54 1997

20. Mateo, R; Belliure, J; Dolz, JC; et al. High prevalences of lead poisoning in wintering waterfowl in Spain
ARCHIVES OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION AND TOXICOLOGY, 35 (2): 342-347 AUG 1998

21. Franson, JC; Petersen, MR; Creekmore, LH; et al. Blood lead concentrations of spectacled eiders near the Kashunuk river, Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska
ECOTOXICOLOGY, 7 (3): 175-181 JUN 1998

22. Moore, JL; Hohman, WL; Stark, TM; et al. Shot prevalences and diets of diving ducks five years after ban on use of lead shotshells at Catahoula Lake, Louisiana
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT, 62 (2): 564-569 APR 1998

23. Kendall, RJ; Lacher, TE; Bunck, C; et al. An ecological risk assessment of lead shot exposure in non-waterfowl avian species: Upland game birds and raptors
ENVIRONMENTAL TOXICOLOGY AND CHEMISTRY, 15 (1): 4-20 JAN 1996

24. Scheuhammer, AM; Dickson, KM Patterns of environmental lead exposure in waterfowl in Eastern Canada
AMBIO, 25 (1): 14-20 FEB 1996

25. SMITH, OL; GOEDE, A; BLACKHALL, SA LEAD CONTAMINATION OF WATERFOWL IN TASMANIA BY INGESTION OF SHOTGUN PELLETS FROM DUCK SHOOTING
WILDLIFE RESEARCH, 22 (5): 611-623 1995

26. DESTEFANO, S; BRAND, CJ; SAMUEL, MD SEASONAL INGESTION OF TOXIC AND NONTOXIC SHOT BY CANADA GEESE
WILDLIFE SOCIETY BULLETIN, 23 (3): 502-506 FAL 1995

27. BLUS, LJ; HENNY, CJ; HOFFMAN, DJ; et al. ACCUMULATION IN AND EFFECTS OF LEAD AND CADMIUM ON WATERFOWL AND PASSERINES IN NORTHERN IDAHO
ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTION, 89 (3): 311-318 1995

28. HOHMAN, WL; MOORE, JL; FRANSON, JC WINTER SURVIVAL OF IMMATURE CANVASBACKS IN INLAND LOUISIANA
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT, 59 (2): 384-392 APR 1995

29. BLUS, LJ A REVIEW OF LEAD-POISONING IN SWANS
COMPARATIVE BIOCHEMISTRY AND PHYSIOLOGY C-PHARMACOLOGY TOXICOLOGY & ENDOCRINOLOGY, 108 (3): 259-267 JUL 1994

30. DAURY, RW; SCHWAB, FE; BATEMAN, MC PREVALENCE OF INGESTED LEAD SHOT IN AMERICAN BLACK DUCK, ANAS RUBRIPES, AND RING-NECKED DUCK, AYTHYA-COLLARIS, GIZZARDS FROM NOVA-SCOTIA AND PRINCE-EDWARD-ISLAND
CANADIAN FIELD-NATURALIST, 108 (1): 26-30 JAN-MAR 1994
etc....

 
Last edited:
Charlie, you are somewhat correct on the Hevi-Shot...The supplier of the pellets raised the price range on the per pound cost and Remington took other measures to make a load comparable to the Hevi-Shot...The price range in manufacturing didn't fit the marketing cost range of the ending product...Just a simple matter of meeting the range of cost of what the customer was willing to pay...
 
I know how you feel Tod. Unfortunately there is some documented evidence on Geese dying from plumbism and more importantly to the antis Eagles. Seems that when Eagles scavenged fowl that had been crippled or killed that they developed plumbism. I stll don't believe enough research on doing things like using copper or nickel coated shot was done so we are now stuck with these overly expensive (for me anyway) lead alternatives. I shot the federal steel 1475 fps #2's the last few years and found them to be very effective as far as steel goes. I'm one of the old toots on this page that hunted for many years with lead and I reloaded AA 2 3/4 " hulls with 1 3/8 oz of nickel plated lead #5's at about 1350 fps and found that a great all around load. Closest thing I've found to it is the Kent Matrix # 3's but I can only afford them occasionally.

Seems lately that the ammo mfg's have taken a lesson from the gasoline theives and have artificially inflated their prices too. Reminds me of what my old Daddy says, "Hogs don't live long"

Best,
Harry
 
We started shooting steel in 88. A gallon of gas is 4x as much. A new pick up truck is 4x as much. A box of bullets is 50% more than it was. besides plastic decoys that have went down in price, bullets are by far the least inflated purchase on a duck hunt compared to days of old.

for the poster than doesn't belive in lead posioning. Let me know if you come thru memphis. Be glad to make you a dish, with oh, say 20 lead pellets in it. You weight 50x as much as a duck, and dont have a gizzard. so 20 pellets of harmless lead ought to be no problemo. Lead is a posion, end of story. It ought to be illegal in all shot shells, and spilt shot sinkers. Theres a reason we got problems with chinese toys containing lead, cheap gasoline that had lead, and paint that sure stuck better with lead... lead is a posion. Its an element, that doesnt break down when you shoot 150 little balls of it per shot into the fields and water. Would love to see a total ban on lead shot shells. travis
 
please not the lead shot debate again, theres at least 2 maybe three threads on this somewheres here, with just about all the info i would never want to read again.

on a lighter note..............steel ahahahahaha

eddie
 
Have you priced nickle plated lead shot lately? All metals have gone up in price horrendously in the last two years. How long can you expect a manufacturer to eat rising costs so we don't have to pay more? Go to Wallyworld(caff..hack..spitoo-ee) and check out thos big boxes of cheap Federal shells that were 10.00 two months ago..now they are 20 something. A 25lb bag of lead shot for reloading is about 40 bucks when 2 years ago it was 12-15. This price spike has been a good thing in the sense that shooting clubs are reclaiming the shot that just layed out on the ground being washed with rainwater that seeps into the aquafer.
 
You guys are right. "Lead be bad". I work with lead poisoned children and their parents to get their body burdens reduced or eliminated. One of the best things done in this country to help the children was to take lead out of gasoline and later to take lead out of house paint.

I only know of one case of childhood lead poisoning related to ammo. A child swallowed a bullet and her blood lead level went through the roof.

best,
Harry
 
Tod,
Thank you for posting all the Pb refs however it would be nice if I could access the links you posted.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I knew that would be a problem. The services that index journal articles are very protective of their resource, universities pay big money to have access to the articles in that format and can't provide public access.

T
 
Easy guys, I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum here as it has on most waterfowling sites.

Charlie-
Maybe it was poor wording, but yes I meant the loads (shells) that Remington produced for them (Environmetal) - using their (Environmetal's) shot. The way I understand it was Remington produced these loads until Environmetal had the funds/capacity to produce their own loads. I personally like Remington's loads better. I think the difference in the shot itself is a wash, if it's even different I'm not sure.

Tod, et al.
I have 'heard' about these cases many times. But I have never seen (read) a documented case, and would be interested to read some of them. Thanks for the list, I'll have to head over to the U of M when I get some time and look up some of those.

Travis,
I'll pass on the lead laden meal, I've eaten plenty of shot that was left in birds on accident. I don't doubt the toxicity of lead. But I have always wondered about the number of birds that actually ingest lead shot.

And, for the record, the cost of 'cheap' plastic decoys may have decreased, but the cost of G&H decoys (which I use) has increased. No problem there, mine are lasting quite well. I take care of my vehicles and tend to get 250K or better on them. But shells I have to buy for every hunt. I guarantee if I broke down my hunting expenses for the last 5 years including cost/wear and tear on my guns, boat, etc. gas would be the biggest expense (I drive 2+ hrs to hunt nearly every weekend), and shells would be second, and not far behind at that. Shells may not be the most inflated, but they are still a big expense, not to mention paying $8 + per box just to shoot clays.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top