history lesson (ndr)
- Thread starter Todd Duncan Tennyson
- Start date
An acquaintance of mine, George Smith, who recently retired after a long career as executive director of the Sporstmen's Alliance of Maine, has a couple of thoughtful columns in the local paper on this issue. George speaks from experience--he spent something like 20 years lobbying the Maine Legislature on hunting and gun issues.
I think his stuff is worth a read. I don't agree with everything he has to say, but he's a thoughtful guy, and he's earned the right to his opinions.
From today:
http://georgesoutdoornews.bangordailynews.com/2012/12/18/maine-woods/gun-control-and-mental-illness-a-sportsmans-response/
From a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/articles/georges-outdoor-news/november/2012/speaking-guns
I think his stuff is worth a read. I don't agree with everything he has to say, but he's a thoughtful guy, and he's earned the right to his opinions.
From today:
http://georgesoutdoornews.bangordailynews.com/2012/12/18/maine-woods/gun-control-and-mental-illness-a-sportsmans-response/
From a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/articles/georges-outdoor-news/november/2012/speaking-guns
John Bourbon
Well-known member
A couple of thoughts:
1) You can't fix crazy. Truer words were never spoken.
2) Guns are inanimate objects. They do nothing by them selves. They just sit there. Just like a sharp knife or a car thats not running.
3) I live in Vt, which has the least restrictive gun laws in the country, and one of the lowest crime rates. Easy access to guns DOES NOT EQUATE to gun crime. Otherwise we in Vt would be up to our necks in gun crime.
4) Some other factor was at work in this Conn shooting. I haven't heard what it is, maybe it hasn't been discovered or maybe the police haven't released the details, BUT people on the autism spectrum, generally do not participate in violent activities.
The whole affair is very sad. To compound the sadness by allowing well intentioned, yet misinformed people to strip law abiding people of their rights to defend themselves in an effort to "do something" is only laying the ground work for the next tragedy.
John Bourbon
1) You can't fix crazy. Truer words were never spoken.
2) Guns are inanimate objects. They do nothing by them selves. They just sit there. Just like a sharp knife or a car thats not running.
3) I live in Vt, which has the least restrictive gun laws in the country, and one of the lowest crime rates. Easy access to guns DOES NOT EQUATE to gun crime. Otherwise we in Vt would be up to our necks in gun crime.
4) Some other factor was at work in this Conn shooting. I haven't heard what it is, maybe it hasn't been discovered or maybe the police haven't released the details, BUT people on the autism spectrum, generally do not participate in violent activities.
The whole affair is very sad. To compound the sadness by allowing well intentioned, yet misinformed people to strip law abiding people of their rights to defend themselves in an effort to "do something" is only laying the ground work for the next tragedy.
John Bourbon
John Van Houten
Active member
I don't post much, but since this is NDR and up for grabs, here's the question of the day. IF YOU WERE ASKED TO SURRENDER YOUR ASSAULT RIFLE WITH THE THOUGHT THAT IT "MAY" SAVE A CHILDS LIFE, WOULD YOU?
John Bourbon
Well-known member
Not on a maybe....
John Bourbon
John Bourbon
Mark W
Well-known member
I'll ask you the turn around question. If arming teachers and other school admins were to maybe save a child's life, would you allow it?
Me, I'm no on giving up my guns on a maybe and I'm all for arming those who can make a difference in a short amount of time. Killer was done in 10 minutes, well before anyone with a gun could stop him.
Mark W
Ryan Werden
Well-known member
John, I don't own an "assault" rifle. Simply don't have a need for one and there are many other things I would spend my money on. So my answer to you question is, sure.
The vehicles we all get in every day have a higher likelihood of killing children then any of our weapons. Banning assault rifles is just a knee-jerk reaction and that is not fixing the root cause of the problem.
IMO, identifying, diagnosing and working to rehabilitate or cope with those with mental illnesses is the real solution here. The sooner it is identified and treated the better. This is where government can play a roll. Help develop and enforce a framework for how schools identify and handle/support ill kids. Mandate insurance companies provide coverage for mental illnesses. Provide funding for research and help for those that can't afford it.
Or we can kick the can down the road, not address the real issues and just ban assault rifles.
John Van Houten
Active member
I also do not own an assault rifle, nor do I think they have a place in society, other then the military or law enforcement. As for mental illness, I have no idea how the goverment will be able handle that problem but I'm sure they will find a way !!
An with proper training it would be fine with me for a teacher or adminstrator to have a concealed permit and carry while working.
An with proper training it would be fine with me for a teacher or adminstrator to have a concealed permit and carry while working.
Scott Farris
Well-known member
I normally stay out of these discussion because frankly they are too close to my core believes. My litmus test for for voting is "does this person support my right to own firearms, allow me to defend myself and enjoy an activity (shooting) that in no way adversely affects anyone else." Forget hunting, the second amendment ain't about hunting.
There are over 20 million AR clones in USA citizens hands. Only an incredibly small portion have been used illegally. Are they attractive to the younger generation, heck yes, it's been our service weapon for over 40 years, its in all the shoot em-up computer games. We, guys in our fifty's and older watched show were M1 Garands, carbines and tommy guns won WWII and the Korean war. Guess what guns we were attracted to. Add in the M1A1 for target shooters and many of us have a nice wood stocked collection that in their day were the highest rate of firepower short of full auto. And from a power point of view, the early nick name for the M16 was the mouse gun because of it's 50 gr. 22 cal. bullet. Quiet the down grade from the 30-06 and 7.62 X57, and yes, M14 based upgrades are being brought back by our military for it's longer effective range in the open desert.
When I was competing in high power rifle matches in the 80's and 90's the M1A1 ruled. But the armorers were working hard to get the mouse gun competitive to the 600 yrd max. range of the National Match course. They have succeeded, and the mouse gun seems to rule at least from popularity and posted wins in the NRS Rifleman. Amazing what floating the hand guard (required by the Garand too) and shooting substantially heavier bullets with high rate of twist barrels can do to improve sectional density and stability of the bullet.
So to paraphrase the bumper sticker "Ted Kennedy killed more people in his car than I have with my assault weapons". And yes the M1A1 and the 30 carbine hit a number the assault weapon lists. As do the standard mag.s for them. One of my soap box moments that I discuss in my Hunter Ed course, making it fully clear that it is my opinion not the states is that when covering actions I finish up with my Rem 742 in 308 with a 22" barrel and removable mag, then I pick up the the M1A1 and state that it too shoots the 308 and it too has a 22 inch barrel resulting in the same ballistics, Both have removable mags and fire 1 rd. per pull of the trigger. The 742 has the advantage of being lighter and much nicer to carry around the woods but the M1A1 has the advantage of not beating your shoulder to a pulp and holds it's zero as the rifle warms up when shooting 66 and 88 round matches. Military clone firearms are made for shooting and hunting arms are made for carrying and maybe firing once or twice a day/season. The exceptions are varmint rifles and true target rifles but both of those use very heavy barrels taking them out of the ease of carry group.
The AR clones fit the shooter category, you don't have to shoot a round or a 5 shoot group and then let the riffle cool off. It holds it's zero and doesn't beat you to a pulp. And if it's owner wants to fantasize about holding off hoards of zombies with it WHY NOT!
65 -70 million gun owners and ?? 40 million?? assault weapons in this country. What percentage are we agonizing over when we know a crazy could do the same damage with a Mossburg or Browning, or Remington pump and # 1 buck shot. Passing anti gun laws for the simple reason of showing concern is a very slippery slope that needs to be fought at every step of the way or we will end up almost gun less like Great Briton. You don't care about assault weapons, well step uyp and support the tens of millions of shooters that do. Hopefully they will step up and support your specific areas of shooting, self protection, and hunting that the antis attack.
If your into statistics and facts do a quick google search on NRA and facts to get a couple of pages of interesting facts. Got to read the astrics to get the full gun deaths like 1/2 of 30K suicides a year use guns. Guess I would too, in the very unlikely scenario that I decide on ever killing myself.
Lets keep our heads and emotions in check of gun controls and the need of doing something even if it isn't going to help just to do it. Lets push for single entrance to our schools and a drive up bank style protection for an entry way guard to keep him from being the first target. Schools today are way too soft a target. I do not believe in arming teachers and administrators, it's not their job nor do i believe they have the intensive training to react well under that kind of pressure.
Got to get off my soapbox.
Scott
There are over 20 million AR clones in USA citizens hands. Only an incredibly small portion have been used illegally. Are they attractive to the younger generation, heck yes, it's been our service weapon for over 40 years, its in all the shoot em-up computer games. We, guys in our fifty's and older watched show were M1 Garands, carbines and tommy guns won WWII and the Korean war. Guess what guns we were attracted to. Add in the M1A1 for target shooters and many of us have a nice wood stocked collection that in their day were the highest rate of firepower short of full auto. And from a power point of view, the early nick name for the M16 was the mouse gun because of it's 50 gr. 22 cal. bullet. Quiet the down grade from the 30-06 and 7.62 X57, and yes, M14 based upgrades are being brought back by our military for it's longer effective range in the open desert.
When I was competing in high power rifle matches in the 80's and 90's the M1A1 ruled. But the armorers were working hard to get the mouse gun competitive to the 600 yrd max. range of the National Match course. They have succeeded, and the mouse gun seems to rule at least from popularity and posted wins in the NRS Rifleman. Amazing what floating the hand guard (required by the Garand too) and shooting substantially heavier bullets with high rate of twist barrels can do to improve sectional density and stability of the bullet.
So to paraphrase the bumper sticker "Ted Kennedy killed more people in his car than I have with my assault weapons". And yes the M1A1 and the 30 carbine hit a number the assault weapon lists. As do the standard mag.s for them. One of my soap box moments that I discuss in my Hunter Ed course, making it fully clear that it is my opinion not the states is that when covering actions I finish up with my Rem 742 in 308 with a 22" barrel and removable mag, then I pick up the the M1A1 and state that it too shoots the 308 and it too has a 22 inch barrel resulting in the same ballistics, Both have removable mags and fire 1 rd. per pull of the trigger. The 742 has the advantage of being lighter and much nicer to carry around the woods but the M1A1 has the advantage of not beating your shoulder to a pulp and holds it's zero as the rifle warms up when shooting 66 and 88 round matches. Military clone firearms are made for shooting and hunting arms are made for carrying and maybe firing once or twice a day/season. The exceptions are varmint rifles and true target rifles but both of those use very heavy barrels taking them out of the ease of carry group.
The AR clones fit the shooter category, you don't have to shoot a round or a 5 shoot group and then let the riffle cool off. It holds it's zero and doesn't beat you to a pulp. And if it's owner wants to fantasize about holding off hoards of zombies with it WHY NOT!
65 -70 million gun owners and ?? 40 million?? assault weapons in this country. What percentage are we agonizing over when we know a crazy could do the same damage with a Mossburg or Browning, or Remington pump and # 1 buck shot. Passing anti gun laws for the simple reason of showing concern is a very slippery slope that needs to be fought at every step of the way or we will end up almost gun less like Great Briton. You don't care about assault weapons, well step uyp and support the tens of millions of shooters that do. Hopefully they will step up and support your specific areas of shooting, self protection, and hunting that the antis attack.
If your into statistics and facts do a quick google search on NRA and facts to get a couple of pages of interesting facts. Got to read the astrics to get the full gun deaths like 1/2 of 30K suicides a year use guns. Guess I would too, in the very unlikely scenario that I decide on ever killing myself.
Lets keep our heads and emotions in check of gun controls and the need of doing something even if it isn't going to help just to do it. Lets push for single entrance to our schools and a drive up bank style protection for an entry way guard to keep him from being the first target. Schools today are way too soft a target. I do not believe in arming teachers and administrators, it's not their job nor do i believe they have the intensive training to react well under that kind of pressure.
Got to get off my soapbox.
Scott
Mike Repp
Well-known member
I dont normally get into these discussions but the term assault rifle is way off base. I can take a Ruger 10/22 wood stock, standard gun that has been around for years. Every young boys dream gun for small game. For about a $150 put on a plastic stock with pistol grip, adjustable, with picatinney rails for mounting a scope flash light whatever. Now that gun is considered an assault weapon. Its the same gun but now the shape is different it has pistol grip now its an assault weapon.
The gun doesnt shoot any differently. Same with the Bushmaster its a semi-automatic rifle. It shoots the same whether it has a pistol grip or more conventional stock. Just because of its shape or style its an assault weapon. Yes you can argue the clip capacity but even with a 10 rd clip its still a rifle just like any other. But people will still call it an assault weapon. A true assault weapon is an automatic weapon and as far as I know you havent been able to buy those in the USA since 1934
The gun doesnt shoot any differently. Same with the Bushmaster its a semi-automatic rifle. It shoots the same whether it has a pistol grip or more conventional stock. Just because of its shape or style its an assault weapon. Yes you can argue the clip capacity but even with a 10 rd clip its still a rifle just like any other. But people will still call it an assault weapon. A true assault weapon is an automatic weapon and as far as I know you havent been able to buy those in the USA since 1934
Capt Rich Geminski
Well-known member
Japan never invaded to US because the citizens were well armed militia. They say it is a different type of war now. Still going the same way for what I see. Look at our embassy that was over run.
Our politicians vote the way the wind blows or where they get their support from. How many laws were violated in Connecticut? Make some more to appease the few people. The lawers plead down violations so they don't have to attend court. Enforce our laws.
Our politicians vote the way the wind blows or where they get their support from. How many laws were violated in Connecticut? Make some more to appease the few people. The lawers plead down violations so they don't have to attend court. Enforce our laws.
John Bourbon
Well-known member
I've thought long and hard about posting this, because it is quite personal. A couple of years ago, my daughter, a special needs child, was babysat once a week in the home of her 2nd grade teacher's assisitant. This had gone on for a year or so, and we were quite confident in the care that the woman was giving our daughter. In the home, lived the teacher's aide, her mother and the aide's scroungy looking boy friend. The woman watched out daughter on Thursdays. It was their time to hang out. One wednesday, in the last week of the summer, the aide called us to say that she was not going to be able to watch our daughter that week. OK, everybody gets busy, no problem.
Unbeknownest to us, she was planning on breaking up with boyfriend and kicking him out of the house. She expected trouble and didn't want my daughter around. In hindsight, this would have been nice to have known.
That Thursday morning, after being told to hit the bricks, he went out and borrowed a handgun from a guy I work with, with the excuse he was going to use it to get some money back from a guy who stolen money from him. Again, unbeknownst to us, the now ex-boyfriend was a convicted abuser from Mass, and he was prohibited from possesing firearms. Now in possesion of the gun, he shoots and kills the girl friends mother and drives to school for the final reckoning with his now ex girl friend. At the school he encounters a well liked 2nd grade teacher, who he killed by shooting through the door of a class room. In his search for the ex girl friend, he encounters another teacher, and shoots her through the door also, wounding her grievously. Luckily, she has since recovered. The shooter runs out of the school, and down the road towards the home of the guy that gave him the gun, and shoots him through the hand, he also ventilated the apt next door where another guy I worked with was living. Then he trys to shoot hisself and succeeds in only wounding himself before the cops finally show up and take the now bleeding shooter into custody.
For multiple reasons, this was all very surreal to us as the shooter and I sat on the tailgate of my truck the previous thursday and discussed job prospects where I work. Heck, my daughter used to call him "Chrissy-poo".
The point of this post is that many existing laws were broken. Additional laws would have done no good. The school has 40 or 50 seperate entrances. There is no way to have secured the building against such a thing. Yes they used to hold drills at the school, but when it happened for real, several teachers were seen running from the other end of the school. Panic driven human nature kicked in. And last but not least, not a single person in that school had on them the tools neccesary to have stopped the attack in progress. It is my belief, and this belief was formed before this incident, that gun free zones make the people in them sitting ducks. The first bad guy with evil intent that comes along causes damage that can never be repaired.
In an earlier post, a questions was asked if I'd give up my weapon if maybe a child would be saved? Having already replied in the negative, I would counter that instead of that, I would offer all interested teachers a stipend to learn proper gun handling and to carry it on them at all times. Let those willing to stand in harms way do so. That might have saved 20 kids in Conn.
John Bourbon
Unbeknownest to us, she was planning on breaking up with boyfriend and kicking him out of the house. She expected trouble and didn't want my daughter around. In hindsight, this would have been nice to have known.
That Thursday morning, after being told to hit the bricks, he went out and borrowed a handgun from a guy I work with, with the excuse he was going to use it to get some money back from a guy who stolen money from him. Again, unbeknownst to us, the now ex-boyfriend was a convicted abuser from Mass, and he was prohibited from possesing firearms. Now in possesion of the gun, he shoots and kills the girl friends mother and drives to school for the final reckoning with his now ex girl friend. At the school he encounters a well liked 2nd grade teacher, who he killed by shooting through the door of a class room. In his search for the ex girl friend, he encounters another teacher, and shoots her through the door also, wounding her grievously. Luckily, she has since recovered. The shooter runs out of the school, and down the road towards the home of the guy that gave him the gun, and shoots him through the hand, he also ventilated the apt next door where another guy I worked with was living. Then he trys to shoot hisself and succeeds in only wounding himself before the cops finally show up and take the now bleeding shooter into custody.
For multiple reasons, this was all very surreal to us as the shooter and I sat on the tailgate of my truck the previous thursday and discussed job prospects where I work. Heck, my daughter used to call him "Chrissy-poo".
The point of this post is that many existing laws were broken. Additional laws would have done no good. The school has 40 or 50 seperate entrances. There is no way to have secured the building against such a thing. Yes they used to hold drills at the school, but when it happened for real, several teachers were seen running from the other end of the school. Panic driven human nature kicked in. And last but not least, not a single person in that school had on them the tools neccesary to have stopped the attack in progress. It is my belief, and this belief was formed before this incident, that gun free zones make the people in them sitting ducks. The first bad guy with evil intent that comes along causes damage that can never be repaired.
In an earlier post, a questions was asked if I'd give up my weapon if maybe a child would be saved? Having already replied in the negative, I would counter that instead of that, I would offer all interested teachers a stipend to learn proper gun handling and to carry it on them at all times. Let those willing to stand in harms way do so. That might have saved 20 kids in Conn.
John Bourbon
Terry Desilets
Active member
My Son and I were discussing this the other night. He had a point that not many people get. That if these Nut jobs meet ANY resistance their resolve will crumble. Life takes on a whole new perspective when bullets are coming backatcha. Their whole plan hinges on a docile victim(s).
Another point that there has been a lot written, how an untrained person will not have the ability to control the firearm accurately. It doesn't matter! The Nut job doesn't know that and in reality he isn't going to stick around to find out.
I will leave the verbose statements to those of you that have a better command of the English language than I.
Another point that there has been a lot written, how an untrained person will not have the ability to control the firearm accurately. It doesn't matter! The Nut job doesn't know that and in reality he isn't going to stick around to find out.
I will leave the verbose statements to those of you that have a better command of the English language than I.
Andy Grant
Well-known member
I have not read this entire thread, but were the weapons used, properly locked up and secure? A combonation safe can keep people out. Simple trigger locks add security.
That being said I am heading to the store to pick up a couple more trigger locks.
My last shotgun from DU was a cheap 870 and it came with a lock. How many people use the locks that come with their guns?
I know that the locks and safes may not be the final answer, but they can certainly help.
That being said I am heading to the store to pick up a couple more trigger locks.
My last shotgun from DU was a cheap 870 and it came with a lock. How many people use the locks that come with their guns?
I know that the locks and safes may not be the final answer, but they can certainly help.
When I was 15 I was watching my younger sister and brother while our parents were out with another couple. I could hear tools falling on the garage floor. Someone was breaking in. Our guns were in a cabinet in the living room but the ammo was always locked up except for my dads High Standard 22 pistol and a clip which he kept in one of those hollowed out books made for hiding things which was on his dresser. I took my brother and sister into my parents bedroom, grabed the .22, put the clip in and chambered a round. I called the number my parents had left. When I talked to my dad he told me to call the police and that they were on there way home. The police officer that responded was a neighbor down the street. He and my parents showed up about the same time. The noise had stopped about 10 minutes before they arrived. I didn't know if someone was in the house or not. I was shaking like a leave when my dad entered the room. He and the officer yelled the whole time who they were and where they were probably for fear I'd have shot them. After things settled down my dad asked if I thought I could have shot someone. I didn't have an answer then and I'm not convinced even as an adult I'd have an answer now. I do believe if a real threat to my children or my wife was happening I could. I hope I'm never in the position to have to make that choice. As you mentioned above the police officer told us the percentage of criminals that would take a life is extremely low. He did tell me though if I ever had to shoot someone you have to put aside morals for the moment and DO NOT have the mind set to injure the intruder so he will stop. Shot to kill and make sure they are in the house. A dead intruder can not turn the court system against you.
Eric Dellamater
Well-known member
I would support any teacher who wanted gun training...
I would support any teacher who wants to carry a gun IN SCHOOL to protect themselves or others.
I would also say that any person here who has rudimentary chemistry background, some devious tendencies and some help from google could easily aquire the means to make bombs. Having a registration for anhydrous ammonium? really, how is that going to stop you? Know any farmers???????
More laws will not stop someone as we have all pointed out.
it is truly tragic....
I would support any teacher who wants to carry a gun IN SCHOOL to protect themselves or others.
I would also say that any person here who has rudimentary chemistry background, some devious tendencies and some help from google could easily aquire the means to make bombs. Having a registration for anhydrous ammonium? really, how is that going to stop you? Know any farmers???????
More laws will not stop someone as we have all pointed out.
it is truly tragic....
Mike Sheppard
Active member
Before we accept the premise that the assault rifle contributed to the crime, consider what would have happened if he had used the shotgun in his trunk with oo buck shot.
The scary weapon isn't always the most dangerous
If we go along with "sensible" restrictions, how long before "Saturday night special"replaces assault rifles in the press?
"Sniper" rifles that can penetrate police mans body armor?
"Riot"guns" anyone. Why would anyone need more than a single shot for hunting?
Many of us "old guys" have seen this all before. The most vocal of our opposition will be satisfied with nothing less than total confiscation, how can we compromise with that?
The scary weapon isn't always the most dangerous
If we go along with "sensible" restrictions, how long before "Saturday night special"replaces assault rifles in the press?
"Sniper" rifles that can penetrate police mans body armor?
"Riot"guns" anyone. Why would anyone need more than a single shot for hunting?
Many of us "old guys" have seen this all before. The most vocal of our opposition will be satisfied with nothing less than total confiscation, how can we compromise with that?
Interesting point you make. I see lots of posts from folks who have concealed carry permits about how they would use them and I simply smile to myself. Nobody knows how they will react when they stare down the barrel of a Glock or sawed off shotgun. Nobody knows how they will react when grabbed and held hostage at gun point without warning. I should qualify this by saying "no civilian knows"! I won't talk about it other than to say "I know" and as I have said I just smile to myself when I hear the talk. Unfortunately it is a sad smile that always leaves me feeling uncomfortable. Gun crime (like all crime and life itself) is complex in nature, varied in cause and unpredictable in outcome. I am staying out of the gun control debate beyond what I just wrote in the hopes that it will be thought provoking for those who think that if they only carried a gun that day things would be different. Be very careful what you wish for.
When I was much younger I had a friend whose father was a psychiatrist for the penal system. He said he felt safer in the jails than on the streets because he knew who he was dealing with in the jail and that he knew the streets were full of similar people but he couldn't identify them or predict what they were about to do.
I have a tremendous sympathy for the folks and parents of Newtown and the surrounding area. A close friend manages a nearby emergency department and that day they were bracing themselves for an influx of injured people. None came and she is sad beyond words. Tod, I feel for you living so close and having a young child. It can't be easy.
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My opinions:
1. as stated before, guns are inanimate objects. Simply "tools". Guns, simply by existing are not to blame for anything.
2. Laws - can restrict rights and ease of access, but examples of Drugs, Prohibition and even existing gun laws are prime examples of how they actually fail
The breakdown of the TRADITIONAL FAMILY is the reason, in my opinion, that gun violence is increasing, and the cause of many of the challenges (drugs, unwanted pregnancy, poor behavior by youths). The traditional family had strong parental leadership. Ethics, Morals and Codes of Conduct were taught and ENFORCED very CONSISTENTLY. Elders, teachers, religious (priests, ministers, Rabi etc) were respected. Parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents, brothers, sisters, cousins etc POLICED there own family to a significant extent! Therefore, STOPPING any of these actions BEFORE they happenned or could even begin to happen.
People, young people in particular were MORE afraid of what or how their parents or family would respond to any violation of their family ethics, morals and codes of conduct than any Police, teacher etc. I know that was the case for me growing up and is certainly the case for my children (I have 3, two boys and a daughter, all young adults, doing well).
PARENTS (like gun owners) need to accept responsibility for their children, their childrens actions, behaviors etc. They are responsible for their children for life! The extended family, of course, comes into play and can certainly assist.
These are just my opinions, nothing more. This is a complicated situation with many variables and exceptions. In no way am I intending to OFFEND anyone!
Peace and have a great holiday season!
Jim O'Brien
1. as stated before, guns are inanimate objects. Simply "tools". Guns, simply by existing are not to blame for anything.
2. Laws - can restrict rights and ease of access, but examples of Drugs, Prohibition and even existing gun laws are prime examples of how they actually fail
The breakdown of the TRADITIONAL FAMILY is the reason, in my opinion, that gun violence is increasing, and the cause of many of the challenges (drugs, unwanted pregnancy, poor behavior by youths). The traditional family had strong parental leadership. Ethics, Morals and Codes of Conduct were taught and ENFORCED very CONSISTENTLY. Elders, teachers, religious (priests, ministers, Rabi etc) were respected. Parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents, brothers, sisters, cousins etc POLICED there own family to a significant extent! Therefore, STOPPING any of these actions BEFORE they happenned or could even begin to happen.
People, young people in particular were MORE afraid of what or how their parents or family would respond to any violation of their family ethics, morals and codes of conduct than any Police, teacher etc. I know that was the case for me growing up and is certainly the case for my children (I have 3, two boys and a daughter, all young adults, doing well).
PARENTS (like gun owners) need to accept responsibility for their children, their childrens actions, behaviors etc. They are responsible for their children for life! The extended family, of course, comes into play and can certainly assist.
These are just my opinions, nothing more. This is a complicated situation with many variables and exceptions. In no way am I intending to OFFEND anyone!
Peace and have a great holiday season!
Jim O'Brien