I knew it! ALDCNR Proposing Further WMA Access Restrictions.

Eric Patterson

Eric Patterson

Moderator
Staff member
This just hit my email from ALDCNR. After all the shenanigans that went on this past hunting season the state is considering a draw to hunt.

This WMA been overrun with young inexperienced hunters whose behavior is idiotic and in every case I GUARANTEE they launch their boats with many laws ignored. The prevailing attitude is "I can do whatever I want because nobody checks me." including breaking into locked blinds and boat races at 4:30 a.m. I'm not making this up. A half dozen hunters ended up in the water due to idiotic risky behavior over the course of the season. Imagine if the rules were enforced and marine police wrote tickets for the small stuff. You think the care-free "it's a free-for-all" attitude would persist? Nope! You hold everyone to a standard and the riff raff would figure it out or find other pursuits. As it is now, I expect the state to deal with the problem by further access-restricting regulations instead of enforcing the fundamentals and creating an environment of compliance at the very least. I'm so sick of this shit I'm glad to spend more time on private these days than public.

Folks, this is the wave of the future. Stand in line to get a spot. Don't plan your hunts around weather and other personal situations. Get in line in advance and hope it works out. Get denied or at best be told when and where you can hunt. The spirit of adventure in hunting is BEING KILLED by bureaucrats!

At Swan Creek WMA, it is recommended that the entire dewatering unit operate under a limited quota system, with walk-in and boat-in only locations allocated to selected hunters for each hunt. Weekend hunt selections would be held via a computerized limited quota selection system before the waterfowl season opening. Weekday hunt selections would be held in-person on the day of each hunt at the WFF District 1 office. Selected hunters will be allowed to bring up to three guests to participate in each hunt. This new system will manage hunter access and distribution to improve hunter safety and reduce hunting pressure, while still allowing more than 4,000 duck hunters to hunt the WMA.
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What a shame. Instead of taking care of the problem, inconvenience everyone else. They are essentially punting on this problem. If they were to bust a few people for this behavior word would get out, everyone else would be happy, and you could go and hunt without the administrative nonsense. Think what would happen if the offenders were to lose their license for a year. It would stop quickly.
 
I think back to all the freelance hunting I did there and other WMAs over my 40+ year career. The spirit of a duck hunter is born in your 20s when you can explore and discover. This can't be underestimated! Standing in lines is the antithesis of this. They are killing the spirit that makes for life-long duck hunters. I can promise you hunter numbers will drop, retention will wane, and what would be future big supporters of the sport will never be. This is a STUPID direction my state and other states are heading. It's a sad day and shame on our state for going down this path. You are supposed to protect our sport, not damage it.
 
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Eric Patterson said:
"I can do whatever I want because nobody checks me."
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I can only speak for my area of the tri-State (OH/IN/KY) along the Ohio River; however, I rarely see a game warden from any of the three states even out driving around, let alone getting checked by one at the ramp or on the water. I'll bet the last time I was checked was close to 10 years before I retired... and I've been retired for 16 years now!!
Somewhere along the line, the respective DNR's seem to have lost interest in putting CO's out. Don't know if it's a lack of funds, or that I tend to stick to weekday hunts since retirement, or what.
Getting checked by the local CO used to be a regular occurrence, but not anymore. Seems to have become a low priority here.
Can't imagine a complete lack of enforcement at a WMA that draws waterfowl in numbers like you see down there.
 
I agree with you unless the ducks are there. I was stationed in IL and we used to hunt a WMA that opened at 0400. A pretty large crowd would gather on the days it was open and at 4 everyone would rush in to claim a spot in the flooded corn - I'm talking guys in running shoes, mountain bikes, etc. Once you got a spot, you would almost always get some shots at mallards in there and so it was worth it to most.

Here in coastal NC, we've had a string of warm winters and not many ducks until late in the season. The last 2 seasons, we've been drawn for lottery hunts up the coast near the outer banks and haven't seen enough birds to justify the cost of travel.

Our number of hunters seems to have dropped lately but I think they'll come back if the ducks do.

Speaking of wardens, I heard that there are 2 to cover Brunswick County which is about 1000 square miles. Rarely see one.
 
Carl

Yes, the other areas at Swan Creek are not impacted. But the dewatering area is consistently the best hunting opportunity, by a wide margin. There are other proposals to the east in Jackson County to limit access, these cover very large areas, not just dewatering. I didn't mention this above.
 
Did you see this:
Download Proposed Advisory Board Package

I saw the mud motor restrictions, seems like they are restricting mud motors in certain areas. I hate to see restrictions but I agree with this one. And the supporting rational included in in the package.
 
Sorry to hear this Eric. This has been the norm in FL for a long time on WMAs that would get heavy duck pressure. There used to be first come first served entry to hunters that did not have a permit for the permits that did not get used by permit holders. People being the idiots that they are screwed that up and so now those properties either have a lotto draw for the leftovers (not good for anyone but locals) or do not allow for the leftover permits to be used. There are motor restrictions on certain lakes or no motors allowed during duck season. The state has even limited you to being able to draw a total of five waterfowl quota permits during the season.

It is not a surprise to see these changes being made in other states. It is a shame though.
 
Carl

Thanks for providing that link. It gives more context and insight as to what we can expect. If the Swan Creek rules go through I have hunted my last time there. I have no interest in lotteries or draws. I'll call it a career before I do that. I'm a hunter, not livestock. I deeply love duck hunting but that isn't hunting. It's standing in a spot someone told you to go to. That rule and ones like it amputate the spirit of a freelance duck hunter. I want no part nor will I financially support the state with WMAs fees. Let the next generation begin. I'm saddened by such a loss, the excitement and anticipation of hunting a place I scouted earlier has been replaced by a random number generator.
 
Dani

How has the public taken to those rules? Are hunter numbers up or down? I notice you don't hunt nearly as much as you used to. Are these rules a factor?
 
Generally it has been mixed reviews. The locals who benefit from the lotto system like it because they don't have to get up super early or stand in line for forever and if they don't get drawn then they can either go home or go to another marsh. The people who are not locals are pissed off about the situation but there is nothing to be done about it.

I do not know if hunter numbers are down or not. It seems like there are more people but I suspect it has more to do with fewer "good" duck spots and just more people migrating to those duck spots to hunt. Waterfowling here in FL has changed A LOT. Almost every water body is developed like crazy now. And FWC sprays a lot just before duck season (totally different rant that sends a lot of waterfowlers, myself included, off the deep end) because people don't want water weeds in "their" lake.

A large part of why I don't duck hunt anymore is due to where I am located. Leon County, the entire county, is limited on what days you can waterfowl hunt. Several of the lakes have motor restrictions (which those typically don't bother me as much). There are LOTS of people that hunt Leon County so the lakes can become super crowded. But the limit on what days you can hunt ducks makes it hard for me to just want to go do a quick afternoon hunt. The Gulf can be good but I don't have the right boats for safely hunting the Gulf and I don't have the experience to want to go frequently by myself without a boat that I was absolutely sure was a safe boat for the Gulf. Otherwise, it's a good long haul for good duck hunting. Another reason I don't waterfowl hunt as much as before is because of the quotas, first come first served being replaced with lotto only or properties being closed down to walk ons without a quota.

Now, I am about 6 hours from where there used to be really good hunting in Central FL. That doesn't make it easy for me to do a quick weekend hunt. Plus a lot of those areas are either super developed or super restricted now. I would rather stay closer to home and chase quail, woodcock and woodducks than to spend most of my weekend driving to places that can be good for ducks but I don't have a for sure chance of actually even seeing the water, much less hunting it.
 
Here is CA we have a lot of public marshes open 3 days/week. Most have check stations where you show your license, stamps, and your prepaid pass. Ressie guys go first then the sweatline guys which many stayed in line overnight in campers or trucks. Once you get through the check station the race is on. Get to your parking lot, grab your gear and run/bike to the spot you want. Then throw out your decoys and get out your brightest flashlight to shine in all directions to keep others as far away as you can. Sometimes they think 75-100 yards is ok so you have to try to work it out. There usually plenty of places on the refuge where you can get away from it all but they are less productive so many people are willing to do the race and flashlight wars as we call it. I gave it up and went the club route.
 
Dani

Appreciate your response. In it I see a mixture of indicators the rules have, in part, lessened your duck hunting activity. Perhaps too age factors in and the energy required isn't there over or on top of competing interests. That does apply to me in some manner, plus I now have some private opportunity, for the moment. Your statement, "But the limit on what days you can hunt ducks makes it hard for me to just want to go do a quick afternoon hunt." is something I too have experienced and have never gotten over my resentment of the state for doing that. Weekday closure regs knocked me out of a significant portion of my season hunting totals due to not wanting to mess with public weekend crowds. Our state sponsored a graduate level research MS thesis of the impacts the weekday closure had on waterfowl usage of the closed areas and learned there was no waterfowl usage increase on the closed days over the open days. Yet the weekday closure rules are locked in place. Now on the largest WMA they are going to quota/draw hunts. You clearly stated quota hunt rules did away with first-come-first-serve and that is the path my state is now on. It is a terrible management scheme in my opinion.

I'm realistic and know as I head into the home stretch of my duck hunting hobby my public days are largely behind me. I'm not as concerned for me as I am my son, his peers, and future generations. There is no doubt in my mind you greatly damage the discovery and adventure aspects of duck hunting when you tell public hunters when and where they can hunt. Freedom to pursue makes the sport attractive to young men and women. "What's around the bend" primal urge is huge in the development of a passionate duck hunter and is being squashed. Without that spirit alive in a waterfowler the new rules create a generation of cattle-like hunters, going where they are told when they are told. You can hunt this spot on Dec x. Hope you get lucky. They are amputating the spirit of the freelance hunter and that spirit is what keeps someone in the sport. You will not retain hunters through lines and lotteries when careers, kids, adult responsibilities enter the equation. Loss of freedom to scout and move and hunt where you saw them the day before will always be better than a random number generator that picks you, or doesn't. Effort, skill, risk, and their payoff just took a backseat to regulations. The new management philosophies discourage the hunter, sending them to less aggravating pursuits. State agencies, notably Ark, KS, ND, SD, MB, etc., have put us on the path of fewer hunters, and with them go influence over conservation matters that waterfowl populations desperately need. Our state agencies are damaging the very resource they are supposed to protect.
 
Once an area is overcrowded, it's damned if you manage access and damned if you don't. The DNR may do a shitty job of managing a bad situation, but the real problem is more hunters on public land than those units can handle. The experience can either be ruined by overcrowding or by the bureaucracy that is necessary to manage any kind of limited access. This seems to be more if a problem where ducks are highly concentrated by some combination of limited habitat and the kind of water management Carl asked about.
 
Jeff

Crowding is an issue on the openers and some Saturdays, IMHO. Not so much after that and definitely not later season. I could live with a draw on selected high traffic days, like the openers, just to regulate the insanity. But all season long? That's draconian.

The state indicated safety was a major cause for the reg. How ironic, because they dedicated almost no resources over the past decade to a high-infraction hot-spot to combat lack of safety on the area, perpetuated mostly by inexperienced hunters. Yet now, state it as a factor for the proposed regulations. Their job is to set the standard of behavior and place expectations on participants. That is done by patrolling and citing. Without consequences for bad behavior it only gets worse. Now we all pay.

The mother of all ironies is the entire WMA dewatering area is in jeopardy due to a proposed bridge over the TN river to correct traffic issues for commuters. If that happens this is all academic, for there will be no more hunting there, and the place that so many duck hunters got their start will no longer exist.
 
I am sure that age and competing interests/responsibilities does play a large part in it. I recognize that the year Steve died, I also had had to put my lab Drake down. So, I lost both of my partners in the same year. Plus, I had a young pointy dog that needed bird exposure. Double plus, she doesn't like retrieving so shooting woodducks over water was not going to happen for me on our woodcock, quail, woodduck hunts like when Steve, Drake, B and I hunted together. Triple plus, for the first season or two with her, I wasn't sure that she wasn't gonna be a dog that would drown if she got in water over her head. Poor girl was swimming challenged. Ducks definitely took a back burner after all that happened.

Another thing is that moving here, I became a homeowner. I gained a lot more responsibilities I didn't have when I lived in Jax and hunted Central FL frequently. I can see how someone who owns a home AND has kids would have even more of a challenge with their responsibilities.

Now that Reggie has joined my household, I really do want to waterfowl hunt more. But then it comes back down to "where" and when? A lot of public water around me is deeper so in some ways I have to be more careful with gators around here than I did in Central FL because water holds heat a lot more. Deep water ringneck, can, and bluebill hunting on fresh water has to be chosen carefully based on how cold it has been for how long. And then it is back to quota locations and the fact that I can't draw a waterfowl permit to save my life (Steve had the good juju for that). Not impossible to plan for hunts for Reggie, just more challenging when I am limited on days, places to go or inability to get to hunt places because I can't get a quota or deep water/temperature considerations.

As far as the game warden issue. Our game wardens are a part of FWC. FWC gets money from hunting and fishing licenses and Pittman Robertson, some general state of FL funds, etc. FWC is generally poorly funded. So, having enough money for anything, much less enough game wardens is tough for FWC. Plus, a LEO for FWC is paid considerably less than other state LEOs the last time I looked. So, a game warden has to really love being a game warden to want to stick around for the lower pay. If other states are in the same boat as FL in that regard, I am not surprised in the slightest that most of us don't see the game warden very often while in the field. You can't get more game wardens without more money to pay for them. Lobby for more money for your DNR (or whoever pays your game wardens) and you'll have a better chance at seeing more game wardens.
 
Eric

This sucks. I have never hunted in Alabama so I don't have any experience with the root issues and causes. Sorry if this post sounds like I am preaching to you but I want to express a different point of view for whoever may read this thread.

Access (having a place to hunt) is what I see as one of the biggest issue facing waterfowlers and the biggest driver of hunter satisfaction/dissatifaction. Ramsey Russell and I discuss it on one of the 2 upcoming podcast episodes. I don't remember which episode so you might have to listen to both :oops:!

1. If the state is considering changes but hasn't finalized them, then provide comment with your preferred alternative or go to the Commission meeting with your suggested approach. Is there any acceptable alternative that reduces crowding or conflict? May be you have an idea that they haven't considered or considered but didn't think it would work. Looking at the link Carl posted it looks like this is still a recommendation. It sounds like they are trying to deal with crowding and excessively loud boats.

2. Public land hunting is tough to administer. Without some basic regulations it can be a chaotic unsafe free-for-all especially when folks become greedy or think of it as theirs to do whatever they want. No manager wants to see hunters in fist fights, boat races, burning blinds on the areas they manage for the public. It's hard to regulate hunter behavior but some times managers are forced to over-regulate/manage because of unsportsmanlike and unethical behavior of just a few problematic hunters. Common tactics are to limit number of shells (to reduce unethical shooting), assigning blinds or hunting locations (to reduce conflicts from crowding and improve hunting experience), restrict methods of access (to reduce disturbance of birds and other hunting parties), et cetera. But I don't know any managers who want hunters to give up hunting because of these restrictions so I don't think they are proposing this to get people to quit hunting. I do know that managers will listen to constructive suggestions and seek creative alternatives to common problems.

3. If you are concerned about waterfowl hunting for your kids and their kids, I would encourage you to find ways to support your state and federal agencies by participating in hunting (continuing to buy licenses and stamps), providing public comment and constructive suggestions during decision making meetings, becoming involved in efforts to acquire, develop and manage new WMAs and refuges. You can have a positive impact by staying in the game. Duckboats.net is a great example of how you formed a positive community that shares information to improve our waterfowl hunting experience. I hope you'll keep on hunting both public and private land and seek to maintain waterfowling in the future.

Brad
 
Brad

I didn't take it as preachy, rather as the good advice it was meant to be. I have written the state in the past and got responses from the people in charge. I intend to repeat that effort this weekend. Thanks for taking the time to go into that level of detail. You have provided a lot of useful information.
 
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